john banks

Thanks Andy, yes I copied a section in error, but it was a 4 speed.

These are the PAR options:

1st 3.45, 3.18, 2.916, MY00 UK stock 3.454
2nd 1.909, MY00 UK stock 1.947 so PAR is 2% longer
3rd 1.35, 1.45, MY00 UK stock 1.366 so PAR is 1.2% longer
4th 0.966, 1.16, MY00 UK stock 0.972 so PAR is 0.6% longer
5th MY00 UK stock 0.738

I have highlighted in bold what I think I ended up with. The only practical consideration was to get the right number for 3rd for Road Dyno. I used 1.35 in the power plots I already posted on the PAR kit. Previously I used 1.366 on the MY00 UK box. So the figures should be roughly comparable now. It makes about 10WHP difference IIRC.

Worn tyres could make 10mm difference in diameter and so about 1.6% difference in gearing.

[Edited by john banks - 11/30/2003 11:27:12 AM]

R19KET

John,

I'd have to look back to confirm which 1st you have, but it will either be 3.18, or 2.916. I've never had any 3.45 1st's, on any kit's I've done.

Mark.

john banks

Thanks that would be great. I think I have the others right - I noticed no practical difference in maximum speeds in each gear - think I would in 2nd gear upwards.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Steve

In the "old days" of rallying, they used to group the cars according to cc & a multiplier of 1.7 was used as a rough guide for a turbo car's extra capacity...

So, for a 2.0l block it came classed as a 3.4, so for a 2.5, it'd be 4.25, so nearly an extra litre displacement No wonder it might be a bit gruntier

R19KET

John,

Sorry, should have been clearer. Your first will be either 3.18, or 2.916.

2nd will be 1.909, 3rd 1.35, and 4th .966.

In reality, the difference between 3.18, and 2.916, is so little, that I doubt one could tell the difference.

Mark.

T-uk

I have the PAR info sheet here for jb's kit,

Ratio 3.18(late)

P20, if you could drive john's car you would forget the kitchen and buy another block .I know that if jb's car had been back a week earlier I would not have just bought my kitchen



[Edited by T-uk - 11/30/2003 1:21:04 PM]

Andy.F

Today I just bought a Kitchen..........

john banks

Just back from holiday and thought I would clean the car up and use it for work this week.

This yielded a little more power and torque with a little help from 1-2ml/L NF and a little more midrange boost.

The load sites are maxxed out throughout the midrange so the boost increase made it about 11:1 and the same timing at 1.25 bar than used at 1.17 bar.

Didn't get chance to do the J&S, 740s, EGT, so I've not pushed the top end boost yet.

Graphs will follow later, but power was 349 WHP at 5700 RPM at 1.17 bar and torque was 369 "wheel" lbft. In the midrange the drivetrain losses are lower than at the top end, so it is perhaps only about 400 lbft flywheel or ballpark.

Think the ignition is pretty near as we had some light det occasionally anywhere from 3000 to 5000 RPM without the NF.

Presumably I could get similar or better results from water injection or methanol, need to decide which route to go, EGT will influence.

john banks

3rd gear plots - WOT from low RPM

UkLegacyT

John,

great results so far

i just wondered, looking at the graphs, did you back off at 6500rpm or are these 2.5 engines not as 'revvy' as the 2.0 litre?

cheers
ian

john banks

Rev limit is at 7000 RPM from factory on the EJ257 which is where I also have it. The graphs drop at 6500 RPM because Road Dyno uses smoothing on both axes. Peak power is at 5700 RPM presently because the boost curve is dropping. The poor 550s at raised fuel pressure and wide open would mean it would go too lean (especially without EGT monitoring) if I start playing with the actuator just yet

I have about 10% more power to find to reach my target. This will be achieved I hope by making peak power at about 6000 RPM and holding the boost and torque up until then with a fuller boost curve.

It seems to respond well to small increments in boost

And I've only had two afternoons tuning it so far since I got it. More to come don't worry

UkLegacyT

looking at what you have got with such low boost, i dont think another 10% will be hard to find

will follow this thread for updates

thanks
ian

T-uk

for anyone reading this and thinking that jb is already using the cheat fuel

the det was through det cans and never gave more than greens on the knocklink. as a wee experiment the NF was used and it went away completely.

john banks

OMG it was a handful in the wet this morning

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

I bet it was....

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

Oh man,
Thats wild,

I look forward to see the result!!!.

And i hope that my 550cc,will be allright with the TD05/06-20G i will resive today.

Skassa

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Is there more scope to bring the boost down a touch yet? Not that 1 bar at 3200 with such a turbo isnt good!

Bet it was fun!

Steven
(Goes away sulking, kicking and screaming, "Why oh Why did i sell the 2.5?")

David_Wallis

you mean bring it in earlier??

David

Pavlo

never mind the fact that it already has more torque everywhere in the entire rev range compared to a uk turbo with td04.

Paul

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

excellent

Big Bear

John
I take it you are still using the TD05/06 turbo ? if so how much porting did you have to do to the waste gate to stop boost creep at higher revs? What is the max boost you are going to run in mid range and held? I'm still running mine in at the moment with a TD05 fe and can get 1/2 bar at 2000 rpm I feel it could be a quick car once set up correctly .
Cheers Dave

john banks

I think Andy ported it enough so that the wastegate penny will still just seal.

Presently running 1.25 bar midrange, maybe peak up to 1.3 if you thrash it.

This gives more than adequate torque, and I think driveability would be ruined by going much higher.

john banks

I actually don't want any more torque and even if I did the gearbox is not warranted for it. I was never a fan of shift buzzers, but I think I need one as even in third I daren't glance down at the rev counter. I always thought shift lights were for pansies or proper racers.

john banks

I think the turbo, gearbox and driver will limit things before the engine does.

CustomScoobyIOM

Nice one John, well interesting read.

So I take it using the standard STI Pistons and block etc then?

john banks

Yes

CustomScoobyIOM

John would you mind emailling me please? jon.stokes@mea.gov.im

Just want a quick chat about the 2.5 STI.

Many thanks.

Mr J

JB nice to see it's running finnaly ...
And to hear that your a happy with the car agin

Hmm I think I will have to explaine now why the new house dont need a new kitchen and why the car's old block is history


Jan

john banks

COPY FROM drivetrain thread

Indeed Andy, you have the clincher, the boost appeared to increase (with no adjustment) after the valve was replaced but with no improvement in torque or power to speak of, but I think it was always 1.35 bar, with higher peaks up to 1.54 bar when thrashed hard.

Despite fairly rich mixtures the EGTs reached 917 pre turbo when the brain was put in the glovebox by T-uk, 880 when I drive it This is apparently a bit high for these pistons.

Needs some thought. I don't want the faff of water injection in some respects, but I think I'll have to to cool the EGTs.

T-uk

did you turn the boost down then?

as you left yesterday , you said you would do it in the morning