David_Wallis

Good luck

Ps.. have a nice holiday.

tweenierob

Good Luck

Ps..**** the Holiday Get mapping for more boost

R.

john banks

I managed to get a half day off this afternoon and kidnapped T-uk with his Dad giving chase in the tractor ....

The oil is coming from the new breather on the crankcase - see thread in Drivetrain.

The boost on a 0.5 bar actuator does creep to 1 bar at 6000 RPM and then drops. Using a Dawes it produces a smooth peak of 1.17 dropping to 1.07 bar at peak power in 3rd gear.

It is producing more torque at 1.17 bar than my EJ20 ever did at 1.7 bar. Peak power is 95% of previous best using 1.07 bar rather than 1.6 bar. Plus this is on Optimax with no additives, AFR a silly rich 10:1 and ignition timing still not resulting in any det - ie there could be a lot more to come. Which is a good thing on an 800 mile engine

T-uk thinks it is very balanced for twisty roads with tight bends. I also think the change in torque delivery is a far better achievement than easy top end power, but both are good. I like that at 3250 RPM in 3rd it is producing about the indicated delta dash wheel power of a standard UK turbo

It also idles acceptably at 13:1 open loop even though I can't adjust the timing - it does not like 14.7:1.

Feel like I've earned my holiday now

[Edited by john banks - 11/21/2003 5:43:25 PM]

Pavlo

SO actually, you're getting 95% of peak power with only 1.07 bar (read 1.17 dropping to 1.0 at peak power).

That is quite some acheivement, as a quick calculation says that the 2.0 engine should have needed only 1.4bar to make the same power, rather than the 1.7.

The headers and heads will help, and I guess slowing the turbo down, as you can now flow the same air at lower pressure.

Paul

T-uk

kidnapped T-uk with his Dad giving chase in the tractor ....

LOL , no problem john , my old man wants to know where to send the invoice for this afternoons "driver hire".

I really cannot get over the balance of this combination. it feels like a 2litre with a TD04 , just with monster power and torque. through the twisties the useable rev range is just wonderful and so smooth.

I just hope you have the sense to stop at a sensible limit

as if that will happen

john banks

Just working this out.....

2.7 * 1994
---------- = bang on 1
2.17 * 2457

So efficiency is similar, but bear in mind I am not using octane booster, not enough timing, 10% richer and it is still a fairly new engine.

The extra 10% power and torque to get to my targets or thereabouts I hope will come from further mapping once I can get water injection onto it and run leaner fuelling and more advanced timing.

T-uk

go on john, you know you want to post it

the road dyno of a standard MY00 with decat v your car with less boost than a prodrive car

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Excellent news! Go on post the graphs just to make me drool even more

There seems to be a fair bit of conflicting info on NASIOC about the breathers / catch tank plumbing for the new blocks. One post I read said that some (2?) of the vents were inlets rather than outlets? It would be good to get some definitive info on the subject.

Have fun

john banks

Yellow: MY00 decat, Optimax
Red: MY00 with 20G at 1.7 dropping to 1.6 bar, Optimax and full bottle NF, 11.5:1 AFR, very aggressive timing
Blue: MY00 with EJ257/STi5 ported heads, manifold, TD06, 1.17 bar dropping to 1.07 bar, Optimax, 10-10.5:1, timing? - it never detted and it is not that far advanced yet.

Bear in mind wheel losses go down in percentage terms as power increases, but the graphs do do justice to on road performance - based on power at wheels. You don't get these PAW on a chassis dyno because of far higher tyre losses and less good cooling. You can only compare the figures with other Delta Dash figures, hence the three curves. The weights are carefully controlled and they are all on the same bit of road. Ambients were all 8-14C from memory.

john banks

BTW I am not pussyfooting about with this engine. If it breaks it wasn't up to the job and I need to do the internals It feels VERY unstressed doing the above compared to the 2.0 which always felt like it was going to blow up hence this project.

john banks

This was a log of a 3rd gear run just before, throttle was snapped open at the start of the log though unlike the power run where it goes from 1250 RPM so the spool up is a bit later on these:


550s at raised fuel pressure maxxed out, but it is quite rich!






This is with APS induction kit which drops the full load stuff by about 0.3V compared with the airbox. A standard car would not even get to 4.0V at all on an APS induction kit, never mind at the RPM above.

Andy.F

Excellent stuff John

What John fails to mention is that his wife had to get scoobynet shutdown last night in order that he would leave the PC and go on holiday The BBS was only enabled again once his flight had taken off

Andy

tweenierob

PMSL

Rob.

T-uk

I just wonder what she had to promise for this weeks activities to get him to go,I honestly thought he was going to write himself a sick note at one point . he had not even packed last I heard.

Andy.F

BTT for this very impressive transplant

I had the pleasure of a drive in this the other night It felt like it was pulling better at 1.1 bar than the previous 2.0 was at 1.7 bar Power was coming on well from 2500rpm and it pulled in 5th gear like a std UK pulls in 3rd !

Can't wait for it to have the boost turned up and the map optimised to the 2.5

Andy

RB5SCOTT

Good news then I can't wait to get mine done too as iv'e got pretty much the same spec as John

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Andy

Could you clarify a little more for me as to what the car felt like with the USDM 2.5 block?

I do wish i hadnt sold my block now, oh well, it goes some way to paying for the kitchen!

Steevn

Andy.F

Hi Steven

It felt like the car had just shed 300kilos ! It was so much more responsive than my own car out of roundabouts etc. The power just felt so effortless, no need to drop a gear just press the pedal
As T-uk said earlier it has the bottom end response of a td04 but with the mid and top end of something far more exciting

One thing I would recommend with the 2.5 conversion is to go for the tallest gearing possible, Std UK ratios are fine, it would be a sin to ruin it with a short ratio box as you would just be forever shifting up !!

Andy

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

WTF did i sell my block for!!!

Would you advise taller than UK box, or would STI7/8 6 speed box be ok?

Steven

RB5SCOTT

Thats torque for ya Andy one good reason for going for the 2.5 after all its torque that makes the car fast not rolling road figures at 7500rpm

I just can't wait to get mine sorted now

Steven, i would say that the 6speed will make for a bad step with the 2.5 because they are short geared, they are manic enough in a low powered STI. I would say that the UK 5 speed is perfect

Scott

Pavlo

6speed would be more at home in a 2.5 install if you had a BIG turbo. I suspect it may fit quite well with wallis's engine, as that has a 4000-4500 rpm spool point depending on gears. With uk gearing you can drop to around 5000rpm on some changes, so you need that torque there, which John's clearly does.

Most lateral kits have a longish set of ratios anyway, complete with a long first, which will be interesting for launching.

Paul

RB5SCOTT

My Lateral kit has the same gearing as my orignal box!

Andy.F

I know this came with a winkie....but a more accurate statement would be that it's torque that makes a car 'feel' fast, power that makes it actually 'go' fast

RB5SCOTT

I knew this would come torque still makes it go fast though as well as feeling fast

Surely 540bhp with 530l/ft would be quicker than 585bhp and 470lb/ft

john banks

I've been looking at the Lateral gearing I have mainly so I can do comparative power runs with Road Dyno...

I had a list of ratios as follows:

1st 3.45, 3.18, 2.916
2nd 1.909,
3rd 1.35, 1.45
4th 0.966, 1.16
5th customer supplied. .814/.825/.738 are used in the various Subaru box's.


Standard KPH @7K (See below I don't think these are UK gearings)

3.166 66

1.882 109

1.296 159

0.972 212

0.738 280




What I got:

Ratio KPH@7k

3.18 64

1.91 108

1.35 153

.814 256

So it would appear from this that my Lateral 3rd gear is shorter than stock. However, the SIDC FAQ and Subaru specs quote that third gear is 1.366, so my new gear is a little longer [edited typo]. In the real world it doesn't matter, but it does make a little difference on power calculations.

[Edited by john banks - 11/30/2003 10:35:56 AM]

Pavlo

Scott,

More power = greater acceleration. Mainly because you would be holding the gears longer in the car with more power but less torque. I assume you are refering to Trout's and Harveys results.

I don't feel you can compare the results directly anyway, well lane exagerates late spool up compared to a bench dyno. The bench dyno is almost certainly conservative on the overall power output, whereas Well Lane in paticular can generate all sorts of results when the power levels start to reach such high levels.

What I am more interested in to be honest is JOhns road dyno results, as they are very consistent, I believe he uses the same piece of road, and the same settings, and acceleration/power calc is very simple.

John, welcome back. The UK gear ratios are in the owners manual.

Paul



[Edited by Pavlo - 11/30/2003 10:32:45 AM]

Andy.F

Good holiday John ? Running 1.5 bar boost yet ?

Scott - torque doesn't enter into it if you are talking about flat out performance. The average power produced in the used power band ie 6000 - 8000 is what dictates the cars ultimate performance.

Andy

ps John was it a 4 speed you got ?

[Edited by Andy.F - 11/30/2003 10:38:01 AM]

Andy.F

UK Gears

3.454
1.947
1.366
0.972
0.738

Sti 4/5

3.166
1.882
1.296
0.972
0.738


[Edited by Andy.F - 11/30/2003 10:41:25 AM]

harvey

iTrader: (48)

"My Lateral kit has the same gearing as my orignal box!" Wrong.

RB5SCOTT

Well if it aint the same its god damn pretty close!