Daily driver 2.4 or 2.5 project - target 450 BHP/400lbft reliable
04 December 2003, 08:20 PM
#276
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Would need the rods as well since they are a funny design, and then bearings of course.
I'll see how I go with this engine first.
Maybe if I fit water and the J&S I will get it cooler and running my power target.
I'll see how I go with this engine first.
Maybe if I fit water and the J&S I will get it cooler and running my power target.
05 December 2003, 04:09 AM
#278
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John, I know that the APS intercooler is a good unit, but could it be possible that the turbo is running outside is efficiency range, especially when it is trying to hold the boost ..... we have used a stock EJ257 shorblock on an open class rally car, that had to use a 36mm air restrictor on the turbo (above 2300cc, turbo engine have to use 36mm, and below that a 40mm restrictor) and the peak boost used was 1.4 bar on a stock TD05 and then naturally the boost tappered (boost control was done via a dawes device 
) and we had no EGT issues, obviously we were making a lot less HP, but we were making some nice torque thanx to the xtra displacement and race fuel 
.
Carlos H.
) and we had no EGT issues, obviously we were making a lot less HP, but we were making some nice torque thanx to the xtra displacement and race fuel .Carlos H.
05 December 2003, 09:10 AM
#280
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Could well have pushed it too far... I think the airflow I am getting is probably about 400 BHP on Optimax, up to 10% more if I went mad on additives (or perhaps water?), which backs up 2.0 results. If the turbo is maxxed out then it doesn't matter that it is at lower boost - the airflow will be similar I think. To then get more power out of that airflow I think you have to change the octane or effective octane.
I will go down to 1 bar and work up measuring power and EGT as I go. I will also try and see what vac there is in the inlet tract as I still have the APS induction kit on. May also try to measure exhaust manifold pressure.
I will go down to 1 bar and work up measuring power and EGT as I go. I will also try and see what vac there is in the inlet tract as I still have the APS induction kit on. May also try to measure exhaust manifold pressure.
05 December 2003, 04:33 PM
#281
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John
The compressor curve for the 20g runs to 680cfm at PR 2.35, that should be good for 470bhp. I think you may need to consider a cut back on the exhaust turbine to get the gasses back out though ?
Your spare turbine has a 6 degree clip on it although some would recommend 10 degrees at this output. This should cost no more than 100 rpm in spool up (unlike the 20 degree clip we tested on the 2.0)
Andy
The compressor curve for the 20g runs to 680cfm at PR 2.35, that should be good for 470bhp. I think you may need to consider a cut back on the exhaust turbine to get the gasses back out though ?
Your spare turbine has a 6 degree clip on it although some would recommend 10 degrees at this output. This should cost no more than 100 rpm in spool up (unlike the 20 degree clip we tested on the 2.0
)Andy
05 December 2003, 06:59 PM
#284
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There is approx 1.4 PSI vacuum in the inlet pipe running about 380 BHP. There is only anything significant over 5000 RPM on full load.
This is not good as my turbo is compressing about 90% of atmospheric pressure. This will raise charge temperatures and EGBP.
Anyone with a good inlet tract care to measure their pre-turbo vac?
This is not good as my turbo is compressing about 90% of atmospheric pressure. This will raise charge temperatures and EGBP.
Anyone with a good inlet tract care to measure their pre-turbo vac?
05 December 2003, 07:06 PM
#285
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Using 20 PSI at 6000 RPM:
1.4 PSI loss:
PR = (14.7+20)/(14.7-1.4) = 2.61
0.3 PSI loss: (?realistic)
PR = (14.7+20)/(14.7-0.3) = 2.41
What a difference for my poor little turbo to do!!!
With the right induction I suspect the drop could be minimal - as I say at 5000 RPM there is hardly a noticeable drop....
Bear in mind this ignores the 1 PSI or so drop from compressor outlet to manifold!
[Edited by john banks - 12/5/2003 7:08:32 PM]
1.4 PSI loss:
PR = (14.7+20)/(14.7-1.4) = 2.61
0.3 PSI loss: (?realistic)
PR = (14.7+20)/(14.7-0.3) = 2.41
What a difference for my poor little turbo to do!!!
With the right induction I suspect the drop could be minimal - as I say at 5000 RPM there is hardly a noticeable drop....
Bear in mind this ignores the 1 PSI or so drop from compressor outlet to manifold!
[Edited by john banks - 12/5/2003 7:08:32 PM]
05 December 2003, 07:46 PM
#286
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Andy,
The problem is, how much air can you actually get into the 2.5lt at 6000rpm @1.35bar. Personally, I think it will fall well short of 680cfm.
I agree that a cutback would help. Even the GT30 is producing higher EGBP than we were expecting, at relatively low boost.
How about doing a cutback, and shoe horning a 25G wheel in
Mark.
The compressor curve for the 20g runs to 680cfm at PR 2.35, that should be good for 470bhp
I agree that a cutback would help. Even the GT30 is producing higher EGBP than we were expecting, at relatively low boost.
How about doing a cutback, and shoe horning a 25G wheel in
Mark.
05 December 2003, 08:36 PM
#288
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Yep. I have a plan 
Gains from induction, J&S Safeguard, water injection and possible cutback are still to be claimed, and I am 10% shy of my power target. So I am still optimistic.
Gains from induction, J&S Safeguard, water injection and possible cutback are still to be claimed, and I am 10% shy of my power target. So I am still optimistic.
06 December 2003, 12:32 AM
#289
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The problem is, how much air can you actually get into the 2.5lt at 6000rpm @1.35bar. Personally, I think it will fall well short of 680cfm.
I was making the point that the turbo compressor hadn't quite 'ran out of puff' yet It may be that John needs to run a bit more boost to achieve this flow rate. To do this I think we agree it may require a cut back on the exhaust wheel. Fitting a TD06 turbine would have a similar effect but the spool up may be delayed more than desired.
I have had a run in an 420bhp EVO with a TD06-25G and although it was impressive when on full boost, it was quite laggy and JB's car manage to whip it on a 1/4 mile run when he was running approx 360 bhp on the TD05FE !!
Andy
06 December 2003, 01:29 AM
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FE TD05 + headers on a lightweight car with a short track to the IC is still a very good combination ..... we will have to see what kind o times are achieved by a MY97 WRX here in Lima (on the last event it achieved a 11.77s pass), the car has lost some weight (should be very close to 1000 kgs. now), still uses the TMIC which is cooled by spraying CO2 and is using race gas .....
Carlos H.
..... we will have to see what kind o times are achieved by a MY97 WRX here in Lima (on the last event it achieved a 11.77s pass), the car has lost some weight (should be very close to 1000 kgs. now), still uses the TMIC which is cooled by spraying CO2 and is using race gas ..... Carlos H.
06 December 2003, 12:14 PM
#292
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Get a big pipe in there JB Then you can borrow my ported shroud version and see what you think ?? Are you prepared to be my new test mule ?
Andy
Then you can borrow my ported shroud version and see what you think ?? Are you prepared to be my new test mule ?Andy
06 December 2003, 12:53 PM
#293
Is the only way to get a large pipe in there, like 76mm, to rotate the turbo? I now appreciate that it is not as straight forward as just spacing the manifold and sticking in a larger tube as the compressor housing inlet overlaps the manifold. I have a Samco installed which connects to a 76mm turbo inlet but it does not maintain the diameter for any great length back towards the filter.
11 December 2003, 02:25 AM
#295
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push it a little more ..... the "dentisit" already got:
473.5bhp
437lb/ft
@ Star .....
http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...threadid=33541
Carlos H.
[Edited by carlos_hiraoka - 11/12/2003 2:26:10 AM]
..... the "dentisit" already got:473.5bhp
437lb/ft
@ Star .....
http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...threadid=33541
Carlos H.
[Edited by carlos_hiraoka - 11/12/2003 2:26:10 AM]
12 December 2003, 05:17 PM
#298
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But we got nowhere with it T-uk except to realise they were not the answer. Hardly breathtaking news
My new turbo might be though, Andy F is cooking up some interesting Mitsubishi magic
My new turbo might be though, Andy F is cooking up some interesting Mitsubishi magic
12 December 2003, 05:27 PM
#299
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thought the turbo was a secret until it had produced the goods on the black stuff and dyno in front of a stadium crowd
I do not know why you always try these things in january[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img], it was the same story last winter too
I do not know why you always try these things in january[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img], it was the same story last winter too