Anti War Demo: Saturday ,London
15 February 2003, 07:59 AM
#61
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Fastmover...
shoudn't you be spending more time studying maps and strategies with your gun toting buddies, then posting macho "lets wipe everyone out who gets in our way" posts???
just a thought!!
or are you AWOL, crying in a basement somewhere?
Beemerboy (imbecile)
Actually i am in the Army Air Corps on a pilots course and the instructors don't generally work weekends so i am on weekend leave. plus i didn't say lets wipe everyone out if you actually read my posts i said instead of causing loads of trouble demonstrating they should either be quiet or support what the country is doing.
shoudn't you be spending more time studying maps and strategies with your gun toting buddies, then posting macho "lets wipe everyone out who gets in our way" posts???
just a thought!!
or are you AWOL, crying in a basement somewhere?
Beemerboy (imbecile)
Actually i am in the Army Air Corps on a pilots course and the instructors don't generally work weekends so i am on weekend leave. plus i didn't say lets wipe everyone out if you actually read my posts i said instead of causing loads of trouble demonstrating they should either be quiet or support what the country is doing.
15 February 2003, 08:39 AM
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I'd be going if I wasn't working.
Mostly agree with DJFish. Poor premise for a war with blatant double standards. Not that I excuse Saddam's regime of course. Like Luke says I will worry about our safety in this unpopular war.
As for tree huggers.........hmmmm, could be one or two, but I think you will find there are lots of different people there..... even some tory voters who have probably never been on a demo in their life
Mostly agree with DJFish. Poor premise for a war with blatant double standards. Not that I excuse Saddam's regime of course. Like Luke says I will worry about our safety in this unpopular war.
As for tree huggers.........hmmmm, could be one or two, but I think you will find there are lots of different people there..... even some tory voters who have probably never been on a demo in their life
15 February 2003, 09:16 AM
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My Opinion is this,
give the yanks a taste of their own medicine.
let them go to war and then jump in at the last knockings, when theres nothing left to shoot/blowup.
a kind of WW2 scenario, in reverse!!!
I'm not a tree hugger at all, but remember this... the old guys make the decisions, the young guys fight the fight.
This war will leave kids without parents. PERIOD!!
How much value can you put on that???
BB
;-)
give the yanks a taste of their own medicine.
let them go to war and then jump in at the last knockings, when theres nothing left to shoot/blowup.
a kind of WW2 scenario, in reverse!!!
I'm not a tree hugger at all, but remember this... the old guys make the decisions, the young guys fight the fight.
This war will leave kids without parents. PERIOD!!
How much value can you put on that???
BB
;-)
15 February 2003, 09:41 AM
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"Actually i am in the Army Air Corps on a pilots course and the instructors don't generally work weekends so i am on weekend leave. plus i didn't say lets wipe everyone out if you actually read my posts i said instead of causing loads of trouble demonstrating they should either be quiet or support what the country is doing. "
Better than killing thousands of people who dont need to die.We are making a noise to try and stop anyone from dying If your pro war and in the forces then you msut be a moron.
Go ,to your war and when it goes bad dont come home crying
[Edited by Luke - 2/15/2003 9:46:20 AM]
Better than killing thousands of people who dont need to die.We are making a noise to try and stop anyone from dying If your pro war and in the forces then you msut be a moron.
Go ,to your war and when it goes bad dont come home crying
[Edited by Luke - 2/15/2003 9:46:20 AM]
15 February 2003, 10:37 AM
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ScooBabe - I'd worry about your safety, with or without this war. This country is still "due" a terrorist "outrage" after our lining up with the US after 9/11 and our participation in ops in Afghanistan. It’s a sad fact folks, but we’re aligned with the Great Satan and as such are a prime target for the next Islamic FundaMentalist fruitcake with a kids chemistry set and a warped sense of righteousness.
As someone who has been out there during the build-up and is going again tomorrow I hold mixed views on this whole business although I am broadly pro-the UK/US stance. This is how I see it.....
Saddam Hussein is dictator in the classic sense of the word. He is comparable to Hitler although to suggest so usually whips up all sorts of responses from the anti-war corner.
For years he was supported/tolerated by the West. Why? Because he offered a secular counterbalance to the Islamic Revolutionary state next door. Saddam was never liked by the West, per se – he was used and manipulated by them to keep Iran tied up and prevent their brand of Revolutionary Islam being spread through the Persian Gulf, that would threaten the supply of oil to the West. For those that haven’t noticed, cheap oil in large quantities is the lifeblood of all the Western economies. A stop on the supply would have an enormous and potentially crippling impact on our day to day lives.
So, yes, western governments and companies encouraged and profited from Iraq during the late 70s and 80s. Such is the way of the world. The end of the Iran/Iraq war, a slight moderating in the fundamentalist stance of Iran and the increasing development of political and military ties with the other Gulf states meant that the West no longer felt as threatened by Iran and so Iraq’s usefulness waned. Border disputes over oil fields and Kuwait’s demands for repayments of loans made to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war led to Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. We all know what happened next.
The war ended at the Iraqi border. Many say it should’ve gone further but it didn’t and we are left with the consequences. Sanctions and no-fly zones have no been in place for 12 years. Saddam is no fool; insane, but no fool. The “soft” West will always be taken in by pictures of terrible human suffering and rightly so, hence the horror of the hundreds of thousands of starving children in Iraq. This was caused, purely and simply by the Iraqi regime – to suggest anything else shows naivety and gullibility beyond belief. Whilst his people have starved (which handily keeps up opposition to sanctions in the West as well as keeping his people subdued) he has spent millions on rearming his military and feathering his own nest.
What threat does Iraq pose today? Why attack him now and not two years ago? The events of 9/11 showed those that cared to look that Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism was a serious threat to the West. Saddam is not an Islamic Fundamentalist, in fact he could hardly be further from it. However, the saying goes “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. I can guarantee you that Al-Qaeda and Iraq will quite happily use each other to further their own gains. Any and all strikes against the West will be welcomed by both parties; they will quite happily set aside their differences and tolerate each other for their own gains. Just as the West did with Iraq in the eighties.
Iraq has produced chemical weapons. They still haven’t accounted for them. Iraq had the technology in the early eighties to produce a nuclear reactor. Iraq has the motives to strike against the West, albeit by another’s hand, to see it bought down. I can guarantee you that Iraq will happily supply chemical weapons or at least their precursors to those individuals that will happily release them in Charing Cross Underground station at rush hour one Monday morning.
Where do I stand then? I believe that the weapons inspections should continue but that there must be a time limit on them. They must be far more intrusive. There must be far more of them, hundreds if not thousands more. Let’s be realistic here – 100 odd people searching a country the size of France for things slightly smaller than a dustbin? Just think about the realities of it for a moment. 100 people isn't enough to properly search a town let alone a country. Even U2 “spyplane” flights cannot see everything. It’s the proverbial needle in a haystack.
Hans Blix says the Iraqis are becoming more helpful. Of course they are. They are playing a huge game. They know there is a huge anti-war component in the West and the longer Iraq strings it out the bigger the anti-war camp grows. It’s so obvious to see, it’s painful.
The West needs to continue it’s military build up. Iraq needs to know that the longer they vacillate and delay the more likely it is that they will face disarmament by force. As it is at the moment though, they know the longer they delay the more likely it is that won’t be attacked and that Saddam will remain in power.
Despite all the usual dribble in the media etc about Blair being Bush’s poddle can somebody tell me why he should take that stance? He is risking absolutely everything he has ever worked for: his prime ministership, his party’s place in power and his country’s standing on the world stage. Can somebody please tell me why a politician (we know what they’re like) would do this? Please? For him to stick so steadfastly to his guns should suggest to you that there must be something in it all? This isn’t just brownnosing the Americans- we have nothing to gain from that and possibly everything to lose. Suggesting he is Bush’s poodle is just a weak minded way of explaining something you can’t or won’t understand.
I don’t particularly want to go to war thanks very much, after it’s my pink behind that’s going to be at risk. I’m no warmonger - I’d much rather be at home planning my next ridiculous mod to my car and working out to squeeze another BHP or two out of it. Unfortunately the job that pays for my 280BHP Sonic Blue Pursuit Ship requires that I go and do things every now and then that are a bit unpleasant. As I’ve said before, I am a moral person and have the wherewithal to make my own decisions about what is right and what is wrong. I just happen to believe that this is right. Sadly.
Sorry for going on, in what is probably the longest post on SN ever but I just felt that it needed saying. Anyway, whether or not we invade Iraq is immaterial to the fact that this country is due a terrorist attack. It will probably be big and it will be nasty.
You can be pro-war or anti-war but if you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time it won’t help you one bit
Not scare-mongering, just fact-mongering. I don’t care as I’ve got 2 respirators and loft full of chemical warfare suits
PS. In 1937 Chamberlain proclaimed “peace in our time” after his talks with Herr Hitler. Churchill, at the time disputed this and argued for rearmament to prepare against Mr H but was vilified and shouted down by other MPs. Chamberlain was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work and it was even suggested in Parliament that work on disarmament of our forces could begin.
I draw no parallels. I’ll leave that to you.
As someone who has been out there during the build-up and is going again tomorrow I hold mixed views on this whole business although I am broadly pro-the UK/US stance. This is how I see it.....
Saddam Hussein is dictator in the classic sense of the word. He is comparable to Hitler although to suggest so usually whips up all sorts of responses from the anti-war corner.
For years he was supported/tolerated by the West. Why? Because he offered a secular counterbalance to the Islamic Revolutionary state next door. Saddam was never liked by the West, per se – he was used and manipulated by them to keep Iran tied up and prevent their brand of Revolutionary Islam being spread through the Persian Gulf, that would threaten the supply of oil to the West. For those that haven’t noticed, cheap oil in large quantities is the lifeblood of all the Western economies. A stop on the supply would have an enormous and potentially crippling impact on our day to day lives.
So, yes, western governments and companies encouraged and profited from Iraq during the late 70s and 80s. Such is the way of the world. The end of the Iran/Iraq war, a slight moderating in the fundamentalist stance of Iran and the increasing development of political and military ties with the other Gulf states meant that the West no longer felt as threatened by Iran and so Iraq’s usefulness waned. Border disputes over oil fields and Kuwait’s demands for repayments of loans made to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war led to Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait. We all know what happened next.
The war ended at the Iraqi border. Many say it should’ve gone further but it didn’t and we are left with the consequences. Sanctions and no-fly zones have no been in place for 12 years. Saddam is no fool; insane, but no fool. The “soft” West will always be taken in by pictures of terrible human suffering and rightly so, hence the horror of the hundreds of thousands of starving children in Iraq. This was caused, purely and simply by the Iraqi regime – to suggest anything else shows naivety and gullibility beyond belief. Whilst his people have starved (which handily keeps up opposition to sanctions in the West as well as keeping his people subdued) he has spent millions on rearming his military and feathering his own nest.
What threat does Iraq pose today? Why attack him now and not two years ago? The events of 9/11 showed those that cared to look that Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism was a serious threat to the West. Saddam is not an Islamic Fundamentalist, in fact he could hardly be further from it. However, the saying goes “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. I can guarantee you that Al-Qaeda and Iraq will quite happily use each other to further their own gains. Any and all strikes against the West will be welcomed by both parties; they will quite happily set aside their differences and tolerate each other for their own gains. Just as the West did with Iraq in the eighties.
Iraq has produced chemical weapons. They still haven’t accounted for them. Iraq had the technology in the early eighties to produce a nuclear reactor. Iraq has the motives to strike against the West, albeit by another’s hand, to see it bought down. I can guarantee you that Iraq will happily supply chemical weapons or at least their precursors to those individuals that will happily release them in Charing Cross Underground station at rush hour one Monday morning.
Where do I stand then? I believe that the weapons inspections should continue but that there must be a time limit on them. They must be far more intrusive. There must be far more of them, hundreds if not thousands more. Let’s be realistic here – 100 odd people searching a country the size of France for things slightly smaller than a dustbin? Just think about the realities of it for a moment. 100 people isn't enough to properly search a town let alone a country. Even U2 “spyplane” flights cannot see everything. It’s the proverbial needle in a haystack.
Hans Blix says the Iraqis are becoming more helpful. Of course they are. They are playing a huge game. They know there is a huge anti-war component in the West and the longer Iraq strings it out the bigger the anti-war camp grows. It’s so obvious to see, it’s painful.
The West needs to continue it’s military build up. Iraq needs to know that the longer they vacillate and delay the more likely it is that they will face disarmament by force. As it is at the moment though, they know the longer they delay the more likely it is that won’t be attacked and that Saddam will remain in power.
Despite all the usual dribble in the media etc about Blair being Bush’s poddle can somebody tell me why he should take that stance? He is risking absolutely everything he has ever worked for: his prime ministership, his party’s place in power and his country’s standing on the world stage. Can somebody please tell me why a politician (we know what they’re like) would do this? Please? For him to stick so steadfastly to his guns should suggest to you that there must be something in it all? This isn’t just brownnosing the Americans- we have nothing to gain from that and possibly everything to lose. Suggesting he is Bush’s poodle is just a weak minded way of explaining something you can’t or won’t understand.
I don’t particularly want to go to war thanks very much, after it’s my pink behind that’s going to be at risk. I’m no warmonger - I’d much rather be at home planning my next ridiculous mod to my car and working out to squeeze another BHP or two out of it. Unfortunately the job that pays for my 280BHP Sonic Blue Pursuit Ship requires that I go and do things every now and then that are a bit unpleasant. As I’ve said before, I am a moral person and have the wherewithal to make my own decisions about what is right and what is wrong. I just happen to believe that this is right. Sadly.
Sorry for going on, in what is probably the longest post on SN ever but I just felt that it needed saying. Anyway, whether or not we invade Iraq is immaterial to the fact that this country is due a terrorist attack. It will probably be big and it will be nasty.
You can be pro-war or anti-war but if you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time it won’t help you one bit
Not scare-mongering, just fact-mongering. I don’t care as I’ve got 2 respirators and loft full of chemical warfare suits
PS. In 1937 Chamberlain proclaimed “peace in our time” after his talks with Herr Hitler. Churchill, at the time disputed this and argued for rearmament to prepare against Mr H but was vilified and shouted down by other MPs. Chamberlain was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work and it was even suggested in Parliament that work on disarmament of our forces could begin.
I draw no parallels. I’ll leave that to you.
15 February 2003, 11:41 AM
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P130J,
For the second time I find myself applauding one of your posts.
I stand a good chance of being called up myself. I don't want to go to war, but will go if called upon.
I also agree that something nasty is going to happen in Central London soon. I'm convinced enough that I have got my girlfriend an S10 respirator. Recently I saw special ops Police using CAM's (Chemical Agent Monitors) on the Underground for instance.
Let's see how many people are still against disarming Saddam - by force if necessary - after this atrocity happens...
[Edited by Jerome - 2/15/2003 11:42:14 AM]
For the second time I find myself applauding one of your posts.
I stand a good chance of being called up myself. I don't want to go to war, but will go if called upon.
I also agree that something nasty is going to happen in Central London soon. I'm convinced enough that I have got my girlfriend an S10 respirator. Recently I saw special ops Police using CAM's (Chemical Agent Monitors) on the Underground for instance.
Let's see how many people are still against disarming Saddam - by force if necessary - after this atrocity happens...
[Edited by Jerome - 2/15/2003 11:42:14 AM]
15 February 2003, 12:20 PM
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P130J thats an excellent spot on factual post that explains exactly why we have to act. The anti-war brigade/tree huggers seem to have no understanding what so ever why as a country we are risking everything. They are totally blind to the fact that although Iraq is not directly attacking us by conventional war, they are going to help any organisation in any way they can in carrying out attrocities against the West. Hence the need to forcibly disarm Iraq of any of its weapons of mass destruction.
When (and not if) this country gets attacked I wonder how the anti-war lot will feel if a close friend or family member is one of the unfortunate ones to be killed? This attack is going to happen whether we go to war or not. Its the reason we are going to war to try and reduce the supply chain of weapons to the attackers. Its also the reason North Korea and others are on the 'hit list'.
I know it worries the hell out of me and its one of the reasons I really don't want to work in London although I don't have much choice. I also don't want to see any innocent Iraqi people killed or any of our forces but such is the threat from Saddam Hussein its necessary to take the risk of going to war with him. However I think Bush and Blair are idiots with the way they have handled the PR of this situation and have brought most of the criticism on themselves by not being factual. Bush seems to be getting more gung ho with his talk every day and thats not what this war is about. He is making the public opion worsen everytime he opens his mouth, there is no place for gung ho in this situation.
Good luck P130J, not all the country is against what you are doing.
When (and not if) this country gets attacked I wonder how the anti-war lot will feel if a close friend or family member is one of the unfortunate ones to be killed? This attack is going to happen whether we go to war or not. Its the reason we are going to war to try and reduce the supply chain of weapons to the attackers. Its also the reason North Korea and others are on the 'hit list'.
I know it worries the hell out of me and its one of the reasons I really don't want to work in London although I don't have much choice. I also don't want to see any innocent Iraqi people killed or any of our forces but such is the threat from Saddam Hussein its necessary to take the risk of going to war with him. However I think Bush and Blair are idiots with the way they have handled the PR of this situation and have brought most of the criticism on themselves by not being factual. Bush seems to be getting more gung ho with his talk every day and thats not what this war is about. He is making the public opion worsen everytime he opens his mouth, there is no place for gung ho in this situation.
Good luck P130J, not all the country is against what you are doing.
15 February 2003, 12:39 PM
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It has just occured to me what a huge target this anti-war demo is. With estimates of between 500k and 1M in Central London, they are presenting a very tempting target to terrorists. I'm sure security is really tight (I'm fed up of the non-stop drone of helicopters already), but you cannot hope to Police the entire area and keep it totally secure.
The irony of anti-war demonstrators being killed by terrorists is too horrible to contemplate.
[Edited by Jerome - 2/15/2003 12:41:48 PM]
The irony of anti-war demonstrators being killed by terrorists is too horrible to contemplate.
[Edited by Jerome - 2/15/2003 12:41:48 PM]
15 February 2003, 03:15 PM
#74
Thanks for saving me the time by posting that P130J 
absolutley spot on mate,i can't understand how people cannot see it,but if there's a terrorist attack once war is underway it will of course all be down to us starting a war 
So refreshing to see others that can 'see' and that aren't 'blind' to the reality of the situation. Good luck out there.
absolutley spot on mate,i can't understand how people cannot see it,but if there's a terrorist attack once war is underway it will of course all be down to us starting a war So refreshing to see others that can 'see' and that aren't 'blind' to the reality of the situation. Good luck out there.
15 February 2003, 03:21 PM
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With estimates of between 500k and 1M
150K only according to the Police [Edited by unclebuck - 2/15/2003 3:37:45 PM]
15 February 2003, 06:46 PM
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I find it truly painful that we endure all this anti-war stuff with the 'make love not war' brigade. We love in a vicious world and have to protect ourselves regardless from all the fundamentalists out there.
Blair can see it and thank god.
It makes me weep that this country is divided and has no back-bone. We are facing a very uncertain future possibly apocolyptic! No amount of appeasing will stop this.
Stop all this debate and get tough. Eliminate the potential sources.
We have to look after ourselves im afraid not the 'soft in the head' lots views.
Blair can see it and thank god.
It makes me weep that this country is divided and has no back-bone. We are facing a very uncertain future possibly apocolyptic! No amount of appeasing will stop this.
Stop all this debate and get tough. Eliminate the potential sources.
We have to look after ourselves im afraid not the 'soft in the head' lots views.
15 February 2003, 06:55 PM
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P130J - you are applauded Sir.
Being ex-HM Forces myself, I wasn't really too sure about this one - having done tours to Northen Ireland and Bosnia, I know exactly what it's like when you loose good friends/colleagues in situations you'd rather not be in...
But like all other issues in life, until you take the time out to learn the facts and stare the stark reality of what faces you in the eye, your conscience waivers and doubts.
Now that I have read your post I have a positive view of what George Bush said yesterday as he addressed the US military collective - 'when you say something, do you really mean it?' (in direct response to the UN WMD inspection programme and the constant suspension of military action to disarm by force).
Have a safe journey my friend...
Being ex-HM Forces myself, I wasn't really too sure about this one - having done tours to Northen Ireland and Bosnia, I know exactly what it's like when you loose good friends/colleagues in situations you'd rather not be in...
But like all other issues in life, until you take the time out to learn the facts and stare the stark reality of what faces you in the eye, your conscience waivers and doubts.
Now that I have read your post I have a positive view of what George Bush said yesterday as he addressed the US military collective - 'when you say something, do you really mean it?' (in direct response to the UN WMD inspection programme and the constant suspension of military action to disarm by force).
Have a safe journey my friend...
15 February 2003, 08:00 PM
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Well Even I beleieve as others, your last post has some fair points.
But I believe we need to let the Iraqis do the job themselves. Its VERY possible. Then the west dont have to take most of the blame. But Ahuge amount of people in this world are sick to death of the Americans and maybe us as well. Blair and bush have lied sooooooooooo much to us. They are having problems as they have told us so many lies why should we believe them???
So many armies have used the excuse "we just followed orders" When will the Army get strong with the Goverment. Go to war when necessary. Its not now.
And I was right............. plenty of top quality totty in the march only saw a hand full of "lentil heads"
Well Even I beleieve as others, your last post has some fair points.
But I believe we need to let the Iraqis do the job themselves. Its VERY possible. Then the west dont have to take most of the blame. But Ahuge amount of people in this world are sick to death of the Americans and maybe us as well. Blair and bush have lied sooooooooooo much to us. They are having problems as they have told us so many lies why should we believe them???
So many armies have used the excuse "we just followed orders" When will the Army get strong with the Goverment. Go to war when necessary. Its not now.
And I was right............. plenty of top quality totty in the march only saw a hand full of "lentil heads"
16 February 2003, 02:32 PM
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Well yesterday was fun. Had to go to London to watch Phantom of the opera, something I wasn't looking forward to at the best of times.
So we arrived with an hour to spare to get some grub etc.
Walked into the largest amount of dross I have ever encountered!
Eventually managed to get to where we needed to get to, but was then impossible to get back to get food, so we had to go hungry
One thing I found very funny and ironic was that half the protesters were wearing camo type clothing, damn fashion eh!? bet most of them didn't even realise ROFLMAO
so they can knock 2 off the attendees. In fact I saw a significant number of people who obviously didn't want to be herded with the unwashed, but didn't have a choice. If you wanted to get off the main routes you had to persuade the police that you needed to.
Why they don't just take Saddam out I don't know. Last time they didn't want to turn him into a Martyr, this time they should just turn him into a greasy spot IMHO.
People have a right to protest I agree, I also have a right to not be impacted by them. Of all the protesters I saw yesterday I don't believe I saw many who wern't along for a laugh, a professional protestor or a couple of can short of a 4 pack.
robski
So we arrived with an hour to spare to get some grub etc.
Walked into the largest amount of dross I have ever encountered!
Eventually managed to get to where we needed to get to, but was then impossible to get back to get food, so we had to go hungry
One thing I found very funny and ironic was that half the protesters were wearing camo type clothing, damn fashion eh!? bet most of them didn't even realise ROFLMAO
so they can knock 2 off the attendees. In fact I saw a significant number of people who obviously didn't want to be herded with the unwashed, but didn't have a choice. If you wanted to get off the main routes you had to persuade the police that you needed to.
Why they don't just take Saddam out I don't know. Last time they didn't want to turn him into a Martyr, this time they should just turn him into a greasy spot IMHO.
People have a right to protest I agree, I also have a right to not be impacted by them. Of all the protesters I saw yesterday I don't believe I saw many who wern't along for a laugh, a professional protestor or a couple of can short of a 4 pack.
robski
16 February 2003, 03:42 PM
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Robski
"I also have a right to not be impacted by them"
And what about the rights of those innocent people who will die.
If you are a good judge of people....you will have noticed that the crowd was full of very well dressed ,educated and wealthy people.
"I also have a right to not be impacted by them"
And what about the rights of those innocent people who will die.
If you are a good judge of people....you will have noticed that the crowd was full of very well dressed ,educated and wealthy people.
16 February 2003, 04:19 PM
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You tell em Luke.
I'm sure my post graduate educated work colleagues who attended the demo would laugh their socks off at some of the replies that are posted on here at times
I'm sure my post graduate educated work colleagues who attended the demo would laugh their socks off at some of the replies that are posted on here at times
16 February 2003, 07:08 PM
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And all the ones that will die if we don't have a war what about them? He has massacred enough of his own people before...
What about the fact that WE are much more likely to be targetted for maximum impact. If we go to war we won't be aiming for as high a body count as we can, unlike the terrorists that will.
Its coming to the point in this world now where as a country you make your choice which side you are on. We have a choice as UK citizens some countries don't, that unfortunately doesn't mean that they get away scott free and allow the dictators in power to do whatever they want.
People become casualties in war, harsh but true. All we can do is wipe the dictators away and give some of these people the chance for a better life. They aint going to get it under Saddam are they?
Even take it that they become a super power, you think he is going to suddenly turn into Mr president of the century, spending a high percentage of the nations wealth on building state of the art hospitals, schools etc?? I mean are you really THAT dumb?
If the tree huggers want to do something useful they should get their ***** over to Iraq and protest Saddam. Now that I would like to see. Get them marching through his streets protesting for fair rights for his people, giving ALL his people a decent life.......
robki
What about the fact that WE are much more likely to be targetted for maximum impact. If we go to war we won't be aiming for as high a body count as we can, unlike the terrorists that will.
Its coming to the point in this world now where as a country you make your choice which side you are on. We have a choice as UK citizens some countries don't, that unfortunately doesn't mean that they get away scott free and allow the dictators in power to do whatever they want.
People become casualties in war, harsh but true. All we can do is wipe the dictators away and give some of these people the chance for a better life. They aint going to get it under Saddam are they?
Even take it that they become a super power, you think he is going to suddenly turn into Mr president of the century, spending a high percentage of the nations wealth on building state of the art hospitals, schools etc?? I mean are you really THAT dumb?
If the tree huggers want to do something useful they should get their ***** over to Iraq and protest Saddam. Now that I would like to see. Get them marching through his streets protesting for fair rights for his people, giving ALL his people a decent life.......
robki
16 February 2003, 07:11 PM
#84
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Oh and I didnt see THAT many well dressed people.
In fact a lot seemed to stop outside the theatre where we were also headed. Funny that, would depend where you took your film footage.........
and being a tree hugger isn't about education is it? More of an in ability to see common sense.
In fact a lot seemed to stop outside the theatre where we were also headed. Funny that, would depend where you took your film footage.........
and being a tree hugger isn't about education is it? More of an in ability to see common sense.
16 February 2003, 08:25 PM
#86
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Sorry you had such a bad day Robski. Better planning in the future perhaps. If you do a search you'll find information on the "Tree Huggers" that did go to Iraq.
16 February 2003, 09:29 PM
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Better planning **** OFF
Tickets had been bought for months
If I was only partly for war before I am bloody certain now
Yeah a few went, but they sided with the man, thats my point, try going over there and protesting for something he DOESN'T agree with, damn ****wits
Tickets had been bought for months
If I was only partly for war before I am bloody certain now
Yeah a few went, but they sided with the man, thats my point, try going over there and protesting for something he DOESN'T agree with, damn ****wits
16 February 2003, 09:45 PM
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Robski
So you and those who think alike ................Where was the help in Africa???? What about israel???? took a long time to get to Kosovo/bosnia...What about Our Goverment helping Pinnoshe (Excuse spelling) escape from war crime court......The west doesnt realy care.
This is not about saving iraqis or anyone. Its about oil and america having a strong level of interest in the middle east.
Terrorism is a poor excuse to start one load of shi*...................
ps: " So we arrived with an hour to spare to get some grub etc.
Walked into the largest amount of dross I have ever encountered!
Eventually managed to get to where we needed to get to, but was then impossible to get back to get food, so we had to go hungry"
1. "Grub"..whats your idea of good food??? KFC !!!
2. Didnt plan your trip very well..... You must have known it was going to be busy???
PS...."
[Edited by Luke - 2/16/2003 9:58:56 PM]
[Edited by Luke - 2/16/2003 10:02:16 PM]
So you and those who think alike ................Where was the help in Africa???? What about israel???? took a long time to get to Kosovo/bosnia...What about Our Goverment helping Pinnoshe (Excuse spelling) escape from war crime court......The west doesnt realy care.
This is not about saving iraqis or anyone. Its about oil and america having a strong level of interest in the middle east.
Terrorism is a poor excuse to start one load of shi*...................
ps: " So we arrived with an hour to spare to get some grub etc.
Walked into the largest amount of dross I have ever encountered!
Eventually managed to get to where we needed to get to, but was then impossible to get back to get food, so we had to go hungry"
1. "Grub"..whats your idea of good food??? KFC !!!
2. Didnt plan your trip very well..... You must have known it was going to be busy???
PS...."
[Edited by Luke - 2/16/2003 9:58:56 PM]
[Edited by Luke - 2/16/2003 10:02:16 PM]
16 February 2003, 10:18 PM
#89
Sorry ,but wake up Luke,i'm sure you've been following current affairs with a keen eye and no axe to grind for the thick end of 15 years now, so why the muppet views.
Robski,tell it how it is mate,the only people that have enough info to make a valid judgment are the people at the top and as such i will support them/any uk gov. in these difficult times....and yes, demonstrate against f**king Saddam on Iraqi soil and then see who is Mr Nice guy.You could send in 50 000 inspectors for the next 10 years but it aint gonna' stop the bast4rd torturing his own people(and maybe even ours via terrorism)[ Al Quaeda and Iraq,my enemies enemy is my friend has never been more true,]let the people who have the inside line on an incredibly difficult situation do what they think they must in light of the facts that they have and we don't.Sorry again ,but it strikes me as the height of arrogance to think that your personal opinion is valid in the world at large given that we know so little about classified intel&analysis compared to the security services and government agencies rant over,sorry for the offence.
Robski,tell it how it is mate,the only people that have enough info to make a valid judgment are the people at the top and as such i will support them/any uk gov. in these difficult times....and yes, demonstrate against f**king Saddam on Iraqi soil and then see who is Mr Nice guy.You could send in 50 000 inspectors for the next 10 years but it aint gonna' stop the bast4rd torturing his own people(and maybe even ours via terrorism)[ Al Quaeda and Iraq,my enemies enemy is my friend has never been more true,]let the people who have the inside line on an incredibly difficult situation do what they think they must in light of the facts that they have and we don't.Sorry again ,but it strikes me as the height of arrogance to think that your personal opinion is valid in the world at large given that we know so little about classified intel&analysis compared to the security services and government agencies
rant over,sorry for the offence.
16 February 2003, 10:21 PM
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Saddam is a Master Games player.
We don't have long range weapons.....Whoops, what are those doing there.....ooh ooh Yes UN, we will destroy those now. And here is a decree to keep you happy.
Thank you for the extra time, now we can move all the Bio / Chemical weapons somewhere else in the county to make it harder for you to find them.
FFS, what do you think he has been doing in the last 12yrs. Manufacturing and hidding the weapons. He bans the inspectors, we do nothing, he makes lots of weapons, eventually we threaten to blow him to next year, he relents and lets in the inspectors, only after he has had the weapons moved.
It's a classic, whatch this hand while the other is upto no good. Now he has people around the world on peace protests for him!!!! I give up.
Go in. take him and the rest down. Allow the Iraqis a democratic government.
Kuwait was handed back, the US doen't occupy it. If Saddam gets to much power he has the abillity to upset the whole balence of power in the region. Israel, Saudi and goodness knows how many other countries will get drawn into a war.
And part of it will be about the Oil. It can't not be. Oil is money, power and influence. If he gets all that then it will have a big effect on the West. How will the Peace protesters feel then if he is Dictating terms to us.
We don't have long range weapons.....Whoops, what are those doing there.....ooh ooh Yes UN, we will destroy those now. And here is a decree to keep you happy.
Thank you for the extra time, now we can move all the Bio / Chemical weapons somewhere else in the county to make it harder for you to find them.
FFS, what do you think he has been doing in the last 12yrs. Manufacturing and hidding the weapons. He bans the inspectors, we do nothing, he makes lots of weapons, eventually we threaten to blow him to next year, he relents and lets in the inspectors, only after he has had the weapons moved.
It's a classic, whatch this hand while the other is upto no good. Now he has people around the world on peace protests for him!!!! I give up.
Go in. take him and the rest down. Allow the Iraqis a democratic government.
Kuwait was handed back, the US doen't occupy it. If Saddam gets to much power he has the abillity to upset the whole balence of power in the region. Israel, Saudi and goodness knows how many other countries will get drawn into a war.
And part of it will be about the Oil. It can't not be. Oil is money, power and influence. If he gets all that then it will have a big effect on the West. How will the Peace protesters feel then if he is Dictating terms to us.