STI7 PPP fuel pump
23 February 2003, 08:51 AM
#211
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I should have mentioned also, that the ECU has a warning label on it stating 'THIS ECU MUST ONLY BE USED WITH A HIGH PERFORMANCE FUEL PUMP'.
So whoever manufactures/reprogrammed my ECU is quite clear about what is needed for safe running.
Cheers MTR
So whoever manufactures/reprogrammed my ECU is quite clear about what is needed for safe running.
Cheers MTR
23 February 2003, 10:11 AM
#213
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Wacky Bannana,
The fuel regulator is not changed.
The complete 'new' kit comprises of,
High flow cat down pipe,
cat replecement centre section, (comes immediately after down pipe)
Prodrive back box,
New ECU,
Brass restrictor for wastegate pipe work,
High performance fuel pump.
That is all the kit.
There is nothing else fitted to the car.
Trust me I know intimately what was supplied and how it is fitted.
Cheers MTR
[Edited by MTR - 2/23/2003 10:30:18 AM]
The fuel regulator is not changed.
The complete 'new' kit comprises of,
High flow cat down pipe,
cat replecement centre section, (comes immediately after down pipe)
Prodrive back box,
New ECU,
Brass restrictor for wastegate pipe work,
High performance fuel pump.
That is all the kit.
There is nothing else fitted to the car.
Trust me I know intimately what was supplied and how it is fitted.
Cheers MTR
[Edited by MTR - 2/23/2003 10:30:18 AM]
23 February 2003, 11:06 AM
#214
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As a potential buyer of the PPP kit for my STi7, I have just emailed my local dealer (Sparshatts of Botley) and asked them to confirm that the pump is now included. (I gave them the part number too)
23 February 2003, 02:41 PM
#215
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MTR,
Quote: "Part Number 44S/T5/001 in 'performance by Prodrive' box."
Is this a Subaru part number or a Prodrive part number? Can I call up my local Subaru dealer and order this bit?
Cheers.
Quote: "Part Number 44S/T5/001 in 'performance by Prodrive' box."
Is this a Subaru part number or a Prodrive part number? Can I call up my local Subaru dealer and order this bit?
Cheers.
23 February 2003, 04:04 PM
#216
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RT,
I would hazard a guess that as it is labelled up
'P Performance by Prodrive'
'High performance fuel pump'
'44S/T5/001'
The P being the Prodrive symbol.
It is a Prodrive part.
But then again, who knows.
Phone your dealer and ask them.
Cheers MTR
I would hazard a guess that as it is labelled up
'P Performance by Prodrive'
'High performance fuel pump'
'44S/T5/001'
The P being the Prodrive symbol.
It is a Prodrive part.
But then again, who knows.
Phone your dealer and ask them.
Cheers MTR
23 February 2003, 05:01 PM
#217
Hi Simon
There is no Agresion in my post, those are simple, straight forward questions that should be very simple to answer. Whenever i get involved with an upgrade to an engine the first port of call is always to measure the flow rate of the fuel system, or design a new system from scratch to meet the requirements.
Good examples of this are from my upgrades to the westfield i carried out where the fuel system was junked and redesigned with the aplication in mind. Another is the system i just designed for my friends 6 litre 600BHP V8 race car. It's very basic stuff.
Other examples on road cars are upgrades to the Escort Cosworth, where the first mod has to be a fuel pump swap for anything over 270BHP. There are plenty of precidents out there, so i find it a little surprising after months/years of testing that you are only now fitting uprated pumps as part of the PPP, you obviously have discovered a need to do this for engine safety reasons.
I dont think asking for values of flow rates is asking anything secret, it's something an amatuer could measure in a few hours on both pump setups. It would be helpfull to the readers of scoobynet to have a bit of openess from Prodrive on technical details as that will show them how critical these kind of changes are, should they need that info in the future. It would look better if these figures came from yourselves when asked, rather than someone like Pete Croney posting that info up after deciding to measure then post the info. I would not expect you to post your engine maps, but fuel flow rates are simplistic things that wont give away anything special.
The reason i asked about the STi7 piggyback recall is all down to future resale isues. Come 3 years old people buying PPP cars will want to know which setup they have. I know i would search out for a remapped ECU version of PPP rather than a boost clamp version because that is a much better solution to the problem of increasing the STi7 power to make it a worthwhile buy. I know i would not buy a PPP piggyback version, that logic will be aplied by future owners, that will affect resale value. I would also be weary of buying an STi7 PPP that was run on the standard fuel pump because some det damage may have occured on those engines. Who is to say how much damage was done and if/when that would develop into a catastrophic engine failure after you bought the car outside it's waranty period?
It's fine people like Dave T-S saying, forget about it, it's under waranty but people like Dave are rich enough to not need to buy an unwaranted car, they just buy the next new model. People like me have to buy unwaranted cars because we dont have the money to throw away on depreciation. Of course that also means we dont have the money to spend on repairing blown engines either.
This is why, on my own STi5 TypeRA the first mod i carried out was to install an STi7 TypeRA Spec C anti surge fuel pump assembly, imported direct from STi Japan. Fueling is the number one area to focus on for safety, any race engine builder worth their salt will tell you that.
I am sorry you read my requests as agresive, they are not meant to be. I am trying to find out some facts for members of this board/comunity to benefit from. I am in a position of strength in that respect as i understand the implecations due to my knowledge gained from my motorsport and high performance car building/driving over the last 20 years.
As to me asking for evidence on your other post, you cant go posting information on a public BBS and not expect people to ask you to prove what you are saying. In that respect you are in no stronger a position than any other suplier to drivers of Subaru's. Yes Prodrive has a very good reputation, but that doesnt mean you can post up claims and then not be expected to show details that back those claims up. Blind faith doesnt work in such an inquisitive comunity as this, people want to see evidence to claims, and that is only right and proper IMHO.
As a positive note, I had a drive of an STi8 PPP last weekend. Not very extensive, but enough to get a feel and i was pretty impressed by it. There is a bit of an issue at 1800-2000rpm
but apart from that it felt very strong and is a huge step forward over the last STi7 i drove. It actually felt quick, which the STi7 never did to me.
Your offer to visit is much apreciated, would like contact me offline to arange that.
cheers
john
There is no Agresion in my post, those are simple, straight forward questions that should be very simple to answer. Whenever i get involved with an upgrade to an engine the first port of call is always to measure the flow rate of the fuel system, or design a new system from scratch to meet the requirements.
Good examples of this are from my upgrades to the westfield i carried out where the fuel system was junked and redesigned with the aplication in mind. Another is the system i just designed for my friends 6 litre 600BHP V8 race car. It's very basic stuff.
Other examples on road cars are upgrades to the Escort Cosworth, where the first mod has to be a fuel pump swap for anything over 270BHP. There are plenty of precidents out there, so i find it a little surprising after months/years of testing that you are only now fitting uprated pumps as part of the PPP, you obviously have discovered a need to do this for engine safety reasons.
I dont think asking for values of flow rates is asking anything secret, it's something an amatuer could measure in a few hours on both pump setups. It would be helpfull to the readers of scoobynet to have a bit of openess from Prodrive on technical details as that will show them how critical these kind of changes are, should they need that info in the future. It would look better if these figures came from yourselves when asked, rather than someone like Pete Croney posting that info up after deciding to measure then post the info. I would not expect you to post your engine maps, but fuel flow rates are simplistic things that wont give away anything special.
The reason i asked about the STi7 piggyback recall is all down to future resale isues. Come 3 years old people buying PPP cars will want to know which setup they have. I know i would search out for a remapped ECU version of PPP rather than a boost clamp version because that is a much better solution to the problem of increasing the STi7 power to make it a worthwhile buy. I know i would not buy a PPP piggyback version, that logic will be aplied by future owners, that will affect resale value. I would also be weary of buying an STi7 PPP that was run on the standard fuel pump because some det damage may have occured on those engines. Who is to say how much damage was done and if/when that would develop into a catastrophic engine failure after you bought the car outside it's waranty period?
It's fine people like Dave T-S saying, forget about it, it's under waranty but people like Dave are rich enough to not need to buy an unwaranted car, they just buy the next new model. People like me have to buy unwaranted cars because we dont have the money to throw away on depreciation. Of course that also means we dont have the money to spend on repairing blown engines either.
This is why, on my own STi5 TypeRA the first mod i carried out was to install an STi7 TypeRA Spec C anti surge fuel pump assembly, imported direct from STi Japan. Fueling is the number one area to focus on for safety, any race engine builder worth their salt will tell you that.
I am sorry you read my requests as agresive, they are not meant to be. I am trying to find out some facts for members of this board/comunity to benefit from. I am in a position of strength in that respect as i understand the implecations due to my knowledge gained from my motorsport and high performance car building/driving over the last 20 years.
As to me asking for evidence on your other post, you cant go posting information on a public BBS and not expect people to ask you to prove what you are saying. In that respect you are in no stronger a position than any other suplier to drivers of Subaru's. Yes Prodrive has a very good reputation, but that doesnt mean you can post up claims and then not be expected to show details that back those claims up. Blind faith doesnt work in such an inquisitive comunity as this, people want to see evidence to claims, and that is only right and proper IMHO.
As a positive note, I had a drive of an STi8 PPP last weekend. Not very extensive, but enough to get a feel and i was pretty impressed by it. There is a bit of an issue at 1800-2000rpm
but apart from that it felt very strong and is a huge step forward over the last STi7 i drove. It actually felt quick, which the STi7 never did to me.Your offer to visit is much apreciated, would like contact me offline to arange that.
cheers
john
24 February 2003, 01:16 PM
#219
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44S/T5/001 .....
Just incase anyone can remember the good old simple "MY01+ WRX PPP"... is it worth having this pump fitted on that - or will the standard one work fine?
I'd rather pay for a pump that wont let me down!!!
Jza
Just incase anyone can remember the good old simple "MY01+ WRX PPP"... is it worth having this pump fitted on that - or will the standard one work fine?
I'd rather pay for a pump that wont let me down!!!
Jza
24 February 2003, 01:19 PM
#220
Scooby Regular
John
Actually, I recall someone recently described it as "more money then sense" Truth is, I don't have much money, and even less sense
It's fine people like Dave T-S saying, forget about it, it's under waranty but people like Dave are rich enough to not need to buy an unwaranted car, they just buy the next new model.
Truth is, I don't have much money, and even less sense
24 February 2003, 01:23 PM
#221
Dave,
How comes ur back on here now.... I kinda thought you'd had enough of Subaru dealers etc and was about to trade in the STi for a TVR.
Not that I mind of course :-) :-) just curious.....
Chris
How comes ur back on here now.... I kinda thought you'd had enough of Subaru dealers etc and was about to trade in the STi for a TVR.
Not that I mind of course :-) :-) just curious.....
Chris
24 February 2003, 01:39 PM
#222
Scooby Regular
Fitz
Wasn't too keen on some of TVR's practices - local dealer said "if you buy a car from elsewhere don't bring it to me for 1st service/warranty work as I don't want to do it".....I had a chat with the factory about the legality of that, and I think I upset the dealer somewhat - he gave us our deposit back
Also, don't really want to commit to the expenditure as currently about to start on gutting and replacing the kitchen and utility, landscaping the back garden, and building a workshop.
Not really using two STi's at the moment, one sits in the garage all week, so in the process of selling Mrs T-S's, and have just bought a Seat Leon Cupra 20VT in catsick yellow for a runaround
Wasn't too keen on some of TVR's practices - local dealer said "if you buy a car from elsewhere don't bring it to me for 1st service/warranty work as I don't want to do it".....I had a chat with the factory about the legality of that, and I think I upset the dealer somewhat - he gave us our deposit back
Also, don't really want to commit to the expenditure as currently about to start on gutting and replacing the kitchen and utility, landscaping the back garden, and building a workshop.
Not really using two STi's at the moment, one sits in the garage all week, so in the process of selling Mrs T-S's, and have just bought a Seat Leon Cupra 20VT in catsick yellow for a runaround
24 February 2003, 07:20 PM
#223
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Dave
"catsick yellow" = possibly the best description I have ever heard of the colour.... is that what you told the dealer (the colour you wanted)
Nearly as good as "bird-****e yellow" as my mate calls his new shape M3 - mind you with that engine and chassis you can call it what you want..... :>
ids
"catsick yellow" = possibly the best description I have ever heard of the colour.... is that what you told the dealer (the colour you wanted)
Nearly as good as "bird-****e yellow" as my mate calls his new shape M3
- mind you with that engine and chassis you can call it what you want..... :>ids
25 February 2003, 08:44 AM
#224
Dave,
Is your house called "The Money Pit" by any chance.
You seem to be continually gutting and rebuilding bits in Forth Bridge Fashion.
Re: The Leon. Does it have little orange specs in the paintwork to simulate the carrots as well ??
Interesting feedback re TVR dealer(s). I was considering a TVR prior to gettint the STi.
Is your house called "The Money Pit" by any chance.
You seem to be continually gutting and rebuilding bits in Forth Bridge Fashion.
Re: The Leon. Does it have little orange specs in the paintwork to simulate the carrots as well ??
Interesting feedback re TVR dealer(s). I was considering a TVR prior to gettint the STi.
25 February 2003, 10:24 AM
#225
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Dave,
My STi 02 PPP has piggy back and standard pump :-(((. Checked the box last night.
My kit was fitted at Prodrive at start of January.
Who will fit the new pump in this case, its a long way for me to go for a pump swap. Will my dealer be able to do it? He doesn't know anything about this as you predicted, but he rang IM and they don't know about it either!
Is there any way they will swap the ECU? What is the problem with the piggy-back board?
Still love the PPP though. :-)))
Steve W
My STi 02 PPP has piggy back and standard pump :-(((. Checked the box last night.
My kit was fitted at Prodrive at start of January.
Who will fit the new pump in this case, its a long way for me to go for a pump swap. Will my dealer be able to do it? He doesn't know anything about this as you predicted, but he rang IM and they don't know about it either!
Is there any way they will swap the ECU? What is the problem with the piggy-back board?
Still love the PPP though. :-)))
Steve W
25 February 2003, 01:29 PM
#226
Scooby Regular
Fitz
LOL - my whole damn *life* is a money pit
Steve
If your PPP was fitted at Prodrive (as was mine) then your supplying dealer (or another of your choice) will fit the new pump, not Prodrive
Nothing wrong with the piggyback ECU board PPP, it's still got a full 3 year/60,000 mile warranty
LOL - my whole damn *life* is a money pit
Steve
If your PPP was fitted at Prodrive (as was mine) then your supplying dealer (or another of your choice) will fit the new pump, not Prodrive
Nothing wrong with the piggyback ECU board PPP, it's still got a full 3 year/60,000 mile warranty
25 February 2003, 08:39 PM
#229
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StevePPP,
I have refrained from posted here for while but as Dave implied more to do with permission,information and Logistics. No piont in having loads of troops with guns and no map or ammo 
Your Pump may be one that can cope!!! but would personally advise a little bit of restraint till the new pumps fitted. High rpm in 4th & 5th would be a tad silly 2 weeks fun instead of extreeme fun or 6 weeks without car.
IMHO
Tony
[Edited by T5NYW - 2/25/2003 8:41:23 PM]
I have refrained from posted here for while but as Dave implied more to do with permission,information and Logistics. No piont in having loads of troops with guns
and no map or ammo Your Pump may be one that can cope!!! but would personally advise a little bit of restraint till the new pumps fitted. High rpm in 4th & 5th would be a tad silly 2 weeks fun instead of extreeme fun or 6 weeks without car.
IMHO
Tony
[Edited by T5NYW - 2/25/2003 8:41:23 PM]
03 March 2003, 12:44 PM
#230
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It's all gone a bit quiet.
I spoke to my dealer about a recall of previously PPP'd STi7's for a new fuel pump and he knew nothing. Can anyone confirm that this will happen eventually? Do I need to chase or will someone contact me (yeah, as if.....)? Anyone had one done yet?
I'm driving steady for now but can't keep that up for long!!
If there's no recall then no doubt fitting an uprated fuel pump yourself will invaldiate the warranty.
I spoke to my dealer about a recall of previously PPP'd STi7's for a new fuel pump and he knew nothing. Can anyone confirm that this will happen eventually? Do I need to chase or will someone contact me (yeah, as if.....)? Anyone had one done yet?
I'm driving steady for now but can't keep that up for long!!
If there's no recall then no doubt fitting an uprated fuel pump yourself will invaldiate the warranty.
03 March 2003, 05:29 PM
#232
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Mentioned it
a) to my Dealer, who was aware, but awaiting advice (tho' he may have become aware from other enquiries from SN Members), and
b) To IM, saying that, while they were fixing my suspension rattle, would they like to replace the pump at the same time? Not a flicker of denial, merely " no, we don't have the facilities, your dealer will do it and will contact you in due course."
Phil
a) to my Dealer, who was aware, but awaiting advice (tho' he may have become aware from other enquiries from SN Members), and
b) To IM, saying that, while they were fixing my suspension rattle, would they like to replace the pump at the same time? Not a flicker of denial, merely " no, we don't have the facilities, your dealer will do it and will contact you in due course."
Phil
04 March 2003, 01:54 PM
#233
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my dealer rang back this morning, said hes had a chat with technical, they are still undecided what to do, they have a full list of chassis numbers and will do a recall if needed, says there maybe a problem at high speed
mark
mark
04 March 2003, 08:20 PM
#238
Scooby Regular
I ordered the PPP kit today for my STi7 from Sparshatts. I asked about the fuel pump and they said yes it comes with it,
They said they had two kits in stock for existing orders and they have pumps too and they had them delivered a couple of weeks ago.
They said they had two kits in stock for existing orders and they have pumps too and they had them delivered a couple of weeks ago.
05 March 2003, 01:58 PM
#240
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I can confirm dealers have been told to change the fuel pumps on the STi 7 with PPP fitted last year, mine is in for service today and the dealer told me that they have been informed to change the pumps on all STi ppp'd cars.
Cheers Steve
Cheers Steve