The police reform act...
12 January 2003, 07:56 PM
#31
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Bit of an aside really but a fact that surprised me; In Moray (Scotland) the procurator fiscal (cps) has told local plods that anyone pulling out of a junction 3 feet in front of you and writing off your (potentially) £50,000 car has only commited an offence if someone is INJURED??? I have this from the horses mouth, copper told me when I was attending non injured person who had just had their car written off!!
12 January 2003, 08:24 PM
#33
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why all this frustration over new this legislation. this happens all the time and as Milly clearly points out it is aimed at cruises etc where some owners of cars are really flouting the law and any CIVIL request to abide by the laws of the land. Just because it is a cruise doen't make it right that you can p*ss off Mrs Miggins in her front room once a week. the application of this legislation needs to be dealt with by using common sense and this is no different to specific legislation available at other events such as football or raves etc.
12 January 2003, 09:20 PM
#34
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Gents, please calm down, look at it logically.
This piece of legislation is over borne by The european Convention of Human Rights, and any such action must be proportional, lawful, accountable, and neccesary (in relation to the original offence). use of this legislation will not be a spur of the moment decision by a lone officer by the side of the road, in order to prevent protracted and expensive civil court action, the use of such powers will be exercised after proper legal advice has been sought, and decision making at a fairly senior level.
This piece of legislation is over borne by The european Convention of Human Rights, and any such action must be proportional, lawful, accountable, and neccesary (in relation to the original offence). use of this legislation will not be a spur of the moment decision by a lone officer by the side of the road, in order to prevent protracted and expensive civil court action, the use of such powers will be exercised after proper legal advice has been sought, and decision making at a fairly senior level.
12 January 2003, 09:34 PM
#35
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RE: "Don't bother about burglary, police told"
To be fair, you can't blame the police for this. They have limited resources and time and do have to prioritise. If it comes down to finding the rapist or a minor burglary, I know which I'd rather they spend time on.
This is an issue for the authorities and government who need to a) seriously increase police numbers (esp walking the beat) and b) attack the causes of high crime in addition to a).
On a light side, persecuting motorists means more money for the above? whaddaya think? we're helping the community by speeding
To be fair, you can't blame the police for this. They have limited resources and time and do have to prioritise. If it comes down to finding the rapist or a minor burglary, I know which I'd rather they spend time on.
This is an issue for the authorities and government who need to a) seriously increase police numbers (esp walking the beat) and b) attack the causes of high crime in addition to a).
On a light side, persecuting motorists means more money for the above? whaddaya think? we're helping the community by speeding
12 January 2003, 10:37 PM
#36
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Damn Milly, I thought you were a girl and wanted to ask you to post some pics (in uniform if possible) like all the others did. Sorry about the confusion. 
12 January 2003, 10:43 PM
#37
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just to let u know that for some reason i decided i want to be in the police force, **** knows why, but anyway........
i applied in march last year, and i'm still waiting to actually start my training which i start on may 5th at hendon.
no wonder they don't have enuff police walkin the street when it takes 18 months from day of application to actually get anywhere near the job.
i applied in march last year, and i'm still waiting to actually start my training which i start on may 5th at hendon.
no wonder they don't have enuff police walkin the street when it takes 18 months from day of application to actually get anywhere near the job.
12 January 2003, 11:13 PM
#39
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Adam K,
18 months is actually pretty good from time of application to start of training. they are actaully inundated with applicants at the moment and are doing shifts at hendon to get everybody trained.
do you not think that to advertise such a mindset 'i decided i want to be in the police force, **** knows why' possibly shows the police in a poor light and does little to portray a professional image towards the job you are about to undertake. how does a throw away comment like that affect the perception of others when it comes to recruitment?
i wish you all the best but look back on your comment in a years time............
18 months is actually pretty good from time of application to start of training. they are actaully inundated with applicants at the moment and are doing shifts at hendon to get everybody trained.
do you not think that to advertise such a mindset 'i decided i want to be in the police force, **** knows why' possibly shows the police in a poor light and does little to portray a professional image towards the job you are about to undertake. how does a throw away comment like that affect the perception of others when it comes to recruitment?
i wish you all the best but look back on your comment in a years time............
12 January 2003, 11:26 PM
#40
John, i know what you are saying, but this kind of legislation will be used inapropriately, it always is. Whilst some poor sod is trying to get his car back, they are stuck with legal costs, months on inaction plus losing a rather large investment. Never mind the impact this would have on their social and work life.
Any legislation that is this open to abuse is bad news for civil liberties.
How is this kind of law making the public/police relationship improve? God knows it needs too. It seems if you drive a car you are more and more a menace to society, if you go burgle some old granie it doesnt matter. The balance is all screwed up.
Any legislation that is this open to abuse is bad news for civil liberties.
How is this kind of law making the public/police relationship improve? God knows it needs too. It seems if you drive a car you are more and more a menace to society, if you go burgle some old granie it doesnt matter. The balance is all screwed up.
12 January 2003, 11:46 PM
#41
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i said "**** knows why," in the sense that the police don't seem to get any appreciation for what they do. Nobody seems to appreciate the good things the police do, only the bad things are focused on. the police get a lot of flack for what they do, but it isn't the officers that make the rules, they just have to follow what the big boys say.
i currently work in IT, got an interview tomorrow for a job to tide me over till i start with the police in may. i will miss the money from IT, but i am bored stiff of it, and job security is pretty lame in the IT sector right now.
i currently work in IT, got an interview tomorrow for a job to tide me over till i start with the police in may. i will miss the money from IT, but i am bored stiff of it, and job security is pretty lame in the IT sector right now.
13 January 2003, 12:23 AM
#42
Can someone who knows for sure reply to this, (not doubting you john f. ) i thought that if your car was siezed you "just" pay the fine and get it back if you don't fight the case, or is that the point you're making if you DO fight it?On the other hand this might stop some of the more inconsiderate people (we've all seen them) giving the rest of us a bad name and prompting even more draconian laws,plus muppets racing round estates in clapped out cars ,a danger to themselves and others are also subject to these laws ....
) i thought that if your car was siezed you "just" pay the fine and get it back if you don't fight the case, or is that the point you're making if you DO fight it?On the other hand this might stop some of the more inconsiderate people (we've all seen them) giving the rest of us a bad name and prompting even more draconian laws,plus muppets racing round estates in clapped out cars ,a danger to themselves and others are also subject to these laws ....
13 January 2003, 12:30 AM
#43
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Lets face it, the law is a joke, but they are getting away with it.
I wouldnt want all that noise outside my house, but to give them the right to steal/carjack your car from you is totally wrong.
I know that if it was me, and they attempted to take the car from me, they would seriosly run the risk of being injured, either by me, or the car...
Carjacking is carjacking, and just because someone has a uniform doesnt make it right.
It is only a matter of time in the UK, before all these stupid laws really go to far, the the people will rebel against it. In a free society, we like to be free, to do what we please ( within reason ), but all the laws, and those that govern the police forces, are really living on another planet. They must be high on drugs or something, as no sane person, could be passing some of these laws.
Tony's time will come, and I just hope its soon before he gets this country in a bigger mess than it already is.
I wouldnt want all that noise outside my house, but to give them the right to steal/carjack your car from you is totally wrong.
I know that if it was me, and they attempted to take the car from me, they would seriosly run the risk of being injured, either by me, or the car...
Carjacking is carjacking, and just because someone has a uniform doesnt make it right.
It is only a matter of time in the UK, before all these stupid laws really go to far, the the people will rebel against it. In a free society, we like to be free, to do what we please ( within reason ), but all the laws, and those that govern the police forces, are really living on another planet. They must be high on drugs or something, as no sane person, could be passing some of these laws.
Tony's time will come, and I just hope its soon before he gets this country in a bigger mess than it already is.
13 January 2003, 08:25 PM
#46
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What would some of you suggest as a reasonable method of dealing with cruises that have the 'naughty' and repetative offenders there? is there not an infringement of civil liberties of those not wishing to partake in this type of event?
just curious to how you would guys would deal with it.
just curious to how you would guys would deal with it.
13 January 2003, 08:42 PM
#47
Use the current legislation for driving offences and public order offences.
This is a law too far with regards to civil liberties in this country.
Sledgehammer to crack a nut.
It's like when speed camera laws were introduced and put before the commons because they were to be used in acident blackspots, how long did that one last?
This is a law too far with regards to civil liberties in this country.
Sledgehammer to crack a nut.
It's like when speed camera laws were introduced and put before the commons because they were to be used in acident blackspots, how long did that one last?
13 January 2003, 08:45 PM
#48
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johnfelstead, it worked for America. Afghanistan and Serbia are very peaceful nations now. Everyone in those two countries are now overweight thanks to the thriving economy there..
13 January 2003, 10:08 PM
#51
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You say that most people focus on the negative things about policing, and never about the good things that they do. I do appreciate that at times they have a very difficult job to do, but speaking only from my own personal experience, I can honestly say that any encounters I hav had with the police, have been more a waste of my own time, than it has theirs.
Incidents I have reported, or even a burglary that happened at home ( many years ago ) and other incidents with friends etc...
Absolutely none of them came to any sort of result. In fact, some of the things that had been reported, if the police had acted on the information they were given, would have resulted in them catching some offenders. Yet, despite being given clear and concise information as to the whereabouts of some individuals who were doing no good, they completely ignored it, and did their own thing.
Individual officers arent necessarily to blame, more the system they work under, but there is also an element of common sense involved a lot of the time, which most I have come across lack.
I know a few people who have recently signed up to the PSNI here, and all I can say, is that things arent looking much brighter for the future here. Having failed to be able to hold a job anywhere else, they have turned to the police.
They way the government is taking the law, I can only see things getting worse, and the police officers on the ground ( what very few there actually are anymore to tackle crime ) will only get more abuse.
We need more officers on the ground tackling real crime, and not just tackling "crime" that pockets the government more revenue.
Incidents I have reported, or even a burglary that happened at home ( many years ago ) and other incidents with friends etc...
Absolutely none of them came to any sort of result. In fact, some of the things that had been reported, if the police had acted on the information they were given, would have resulted in them catching some offenders. Yet, despite being given clear and concise information as to the whereabouts of some individuals who were doing no good, they completely ignored it, and did their own thing.
Individual officers arent necessarily to blame, more the system they work under, but there is also an element of common sense involved a lot of the time, which most I have come across lack.
I know a few people who have recently signed up to the PSNI here, and all I can say, is that things arent looking much brighter for the future here. Having failed to be able to hold a job anywhere else, they have turned to the police.
They way the government is taking the law, I can only see things getting worse, and the police officers on the ground ( what very few there actually are anymore to tackle crime ) will only get more abuse.
We need more officers on the ground tackling real crime, and not just tackling "crime" that pockets the government more revenue.
13 January 2003, 11:08 PM
#52
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StevieTurbo, you have hit the nail on the head! All it is, is legalised carjacking! and I have to say they I would take the same action as you suggested, if anyone tries to take my car. I haven't really been to any cruises, but what if I went to one once and they tried to take my car!
What if your giving your bird one in your car in a isolated place and the Police turn up, can they take your car then?
Taking all the fun out of driving, it's not only for getting from A-B, why don't you start catching real crims and leave the people that are doing 2 mph over the speed limit alone!
What if your giving your bird one in your car in a isolated place and the Police turn up, can they take your car then?
Taking all the fun out of driving, it's not only for getting from A-B, why don't you start catching real crims and leave the people that are doing 2 mph over the speed limit alone!
14 January 2003, 08:15 AM
#53
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Well as long as there is consistency, like take all the caravans, safeway and asda lorries and any Micras doin 40 mph on main roads causing untold grief as well as "cruisers" cos they cause just as many if not more accidents than cruisers by their selfish attitude,
14 January 2003, 08:05 PM
#54
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The biggest problem (as I see it) with many of us and the Police, is that the main time we have contact with them is as motorists.
As a young law abiding motorist who drove a powerful sports car I was hassled. Therefore I'm more likey to believe a young forum poster who says he wasn't doing anything and the Police did X Y & Z, 'cause I know you can be doing nothing and get grief off the Police.
Meanwhile as nice law abiding people we need the Police when we have a problem & respect them etc... In my experience they have always been great when I've needed them.
And a decent copper would rather be out catching rapists and burglers rather than bullying motorists. But you do get a minority who will bully motorists and a lot of us have had to deal with that when we were young (and learn to be cool and say yes officer, no officer, three bags full officer). I find it is the older ones who never made it into CID who end up as bullys.
Just my 2p worth and all just opinion and not meant to offend
As a young law abiding motorist who drove a powerful sports car I was hassled. Therefore I'm more likey to believe a young forum poster who says he wasn't doing anything and the Police did X Y & Z, 'cause I know you can be doing nothing and get grief off the Police.
Meanwhile as nice law abiding people we need the Police when we have a problem & respect them etc... In my experience they have always been great when I've needed them.
And a decent copper would rather be out catching rapists and burglers rather than bullying motorists. But you do get a minority who will bully motorists and a lot of us have had to deal with that when we were young (and learn to be cool and say yes officer, no officer, three bags full officer). I find it is the older ones who never made it into CID who end up as bullys.
Just my 2p worth and all just opinion and not meant to offend
14 January 2003, 09:46 PM
#56
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There were people in the Nineties that stood up a screamed from the rooftops about the Criminal Justice Bill only to labeled as drug taking soapdodgers while nobody took any notice....
Oh, how the crows come home to roost...
Oh, how the crows come home to roost...
15 January 2003, 03:29 PM
#57
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CID is not any better than any other department and it certainly is not promotion!
I would have joined the Police myself if you could go straight into CID as you can in some other countries...
15 January 2003, 04:51 PM
#58
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The only reason this has come into force is motoring crime on legitamate vehicles has a 100% sucsess rate, no messey paperwork and police have very little chance of being attacked. Unlike catching a stolen car, burglar etc. And the added bonus that it will make someone 100's of pounds each time a car is taken. The fun bit will come when each force gets the money it makes from this. It's ashame cus I have a lot of respect for my local bobies but if I get pulled over from now on I will seriously think twice about stopping.
15 January 2003, 04:59 PM
#59
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I used to say Yes Officer, you're right officer, but that was because I was young and couldn't think of anything to say. But now I stick up for myself and treat them exactly as they treat me. If they start having a go at me for no reason, then I will have a go back. They are only people just like us, and they are not above us.
If a police officer swore at me, I'd swear back.
I have a lot of respect for police officers controling violence and catching "REAL" criminals, a lot of respect.
If a police officer swore at me, I'd swear back.
I have a lot of respect for police officers controling violence and catching "REAL" criminals, a lot of respect.
