LOL

I hope you enjoy the car Steve, sounds like you are to date!

 

Hear Hear ?

 

Neil,yes I agree with so many factors no one can say for sure the cause of the failures.Your post that I referred to seemed to me to say that since its Prodrive that 'created' the PPP you trust them to have done a good job,I'm not sure about that.Anyway lets not argue because thats not what I come on this board for.However you said that during a brief chat Mike Wodd said those three cars would have failed regardless.Based on what? Why? This is exactly the Prodrive spin that I talked of in my previous reply.Statements like this cannnot be made to intelligent people without qualification.Since Mike Wood does post here I do not see it as unreasonable that he comments as to three STi7 PPP engine failures in as many weeks.
for those that say thats what the warranty is there for,does'nt it bother you why you paid close to £28k in the first place? What happens if you try and sell the car privately in a years time,amny people will walk away as soon as they hear the words 'engine rebuilt/replaced'

 

DS
I have'nt spoken to Mike wood about this. Dave PPP did, and only regards a single incident of which a summary(steve's) quote was given.

Not guilty M'lud.


I agree 100% it'd be nice to know if PD are investigating Aarons and others failures and what their thoughts are. On past experience I suspect they will play their cards close to their chest until they are 110% sure they're right and a resolution(if any is required) is in place.

Like the classic 'big end failure' thread it would help if those who are experiencing hesitation, boost or even engine failures post as much detail as possible. Someting like

Date PPP fitted
By Whom
Mileage
Oil and grade used.
Circumstances around failure/fault(as much detail as possible)
Service profile(only standard oil change intervals or intermediate ones).

Having this info will help SN and indeed PD/IM identify any potential issues with the car



[Edited by Neil Smalley - 1/8/2003 9:32:45 PM]

[Edited by Neil Smalley - 1/8/2003 9:40:23 PM]

 

It would also be of use to record those who are NOT experiencing any issues with their PPP.

 

What about those that are "having issues" but are too stupid to notice ?

 

DJ

Let Darwin sort them out

 

Seeing as someone asked.....I am NOT having any problems, other than grin-containment . In the light of the intitial comment (which wasn't about a failed engine)I pulled mine (warm) in 6th from 2100 revs to - er - quite a lot today and obtained (subjectively) a smooth pickup throughout the range. I have no tangible power delivery problems going to the rev limiter in lower gears (but I don't instrument my car - I just drive it!!). Only roughness is that it hunts a bit at tickover for 30 seconds when starting from cold at -2degrees!!

Dealer Fitted, Optimax, Car 10K miles, PPP 1K

Phil

 

Absolutely no probs at all with my PPP car - critisisms none - smiles

 

ps - also no probs with my bros PPP car

 

Phil,
I just love mine but would have loved the 340Bhp version 3rd 4th & 5th awesome, well alright, good
And if Prodrive recall them all because of you lot moaning the ain't having mine back

StevePPP,
Ring up Mike W and tell him your PPP ain't going right :wink: and then get him to take you around the Rally Section in the Prodrive live car better than 'X'
The test track is at Warick but the Prodrive Tour is done at Banbury and very interesting
Also don't worry about the replying you should see some off the cr4p my keyboard writes must get a new one LOL

Tony

 

Tony,

Thanks for that.

Totally agree, they can't have my PPP back either.

Steve

 

No problems with either of my PPP's

 

Thanks for the reassurance PCB, I will just "enjoy" the car and stop worrying..... no way I'm taking my PPP off, it makes the car IMHO.
Who fitted your defi gauges PCB they sound like the biz.

 

Phil

There was'nt a 340Bhp version, only AFIK a prototype to see how far they could go.

 

It's a while back in this thread since yesterday afternoon but to answer some queries back there:

1. The "spiking" you see at high RPM on the PPP Boost graph is the PPP "fooling" the ECU into doing "what the PPP requires". (that's roughly from my memory how Mike Wood described it). It's supposed to be like that and whilst it looks strange, it does seem to work and in reality, the real boost seen at that point runs roughly between the spikes (as an average).

2. The peak figure had to be taken from a Boost guage because as I think has been discussed, the ECU does not see the "real" boost as the PPP modifies this signal. So, the PPP Boost graph is pretty close to what is actually going on but is not the "actual" shape of the graph, it's a close approximation (but pretty close!).

3. There is nothing wrong with this as a solution and just because it's a cheap way of doing it, doesn't make it less valid. It works, is safe and is warrantied so what's the problem? I would expect that the majority of purchasers of the PPP don't care how it is achieved as long as it works, is safe and is warrantied.

4. STi's have been blowing up anyway so I can't see how the PPP is suddenly the suspect, when more non-PPP'd cars have gone bang

Matt

 

So why does everyone on this bbs throw their hands in the air when someone mentions "superchips", which apparently does just that?

 

Glad to hear you've got it back mate

 

I think Matt has covered most of it, the boost recorded by the ECU is not necessarily what is happening in the manifold. This is not symptomatic of a component failure.

Whilst the hardware for the 02MY performance package would appear to be doing a fairly simple task, the result it gives is not something that has been casually arrived at.

The extra performance some are feeling at higher rpm is actually the ECU deciding it's now happy to run more ignition advance, not the boost suddenly increasing. This also happens on the std car but as the exhaust is starting to give significant amounts of back pressure at this sort of engine speed, it is not felt on the road.

My personal comments on Aaron's car are based solely on what he has told me, but he experienced boost problems following melted boost control pipes and then the engine failed at very high speed.


Neil, although you didn't actually ask, it's sunny here! We are currently laughing mightily at someone outside my office window, stuck on top of a marker post in his Mondeo after finding that the white bit he was turning into had less grip than the black bit he was on!!

Regards

Mike

 

Firstly, sorry all if I've opened up a can of worms here. Was only
enquiring initially about the slight hesitation at high revs. Feel a little guilty here and given the impression that there are huge problems with the PPP. Not meant in way.....

Mike,

So does it follow and make sense then that there could be slight hesitation around the 6/6.5K rev range as the ecu advances the ignition and this ties in with the extra surge in power that you mention. (basically what SammyH stated right at the beginning of this thread) ?

Is there any other place in the rev range that this could be seen as acceptable. I see it around 3.5K, but quite intermittantly and more specially with the recent cold weather. (could be coincidental).

cheers,
Chris

 

Phil,
Yes Matt answered correctly My reference to a 340bhp PPP was in respect of thier Test cars, once proven, they, PD/IM restricted PPP to 300bhp for a comfort zone. IIRC IMHO
With the 300hp PPP my fuel consumtion is 3.6 miles per Litre was with 261Bhp 3.0mpl I wonder if I had 340 hp PPP ;wink; LOL I could save even more fuel.
Mine felt a bit flat at around 6krpm in 6th once other than that great


StevePPP,
Think of another excuse mike must have seen my last suggestion

Tony.
Ps Not working for, directly/indirectly/related to IM/Subaru/etc.etc. Phew got most angles covered

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply Mike. I think that's put a lot of peoples minds at rest.

Re: the Mondeo. Sounds like most people on the way home last night

 

Phil, 340 BHP is more fun than 300 BHP and if the old classics stay on the road with it then I'm sure an STi 7 would Does involve compromises as always though

 

Why did the boost control pipes melt, has this been looked into so it wont happen again?

 

Mike

Thanks for the explanation for the surge in power higher up the rev range, I feel a lot better knowing there is nothing odd going on now.

Would have loved 340 Bhp though!

Oh well on the STI8 soon maybe....!

 

Reckon mine IS a 340BHP version! It is stunningly quick! Even my Dealer got out grinning!!

(Out of interest, is there any suggestion of PPPs over-performing in some cases??)

Tony: I do a lot better for Fuel consumption - 'spect (being a wrinkly) I'm a bit more selective about when and how I hoon it!! Bouncing off the limiter in 2nd ain't quite my style!! (NOT that I suggest you're anything other than entirely responsible)I always get 4.0, can get as much as 4.65 (cf 5.0 unmodded, 5.5 Classic mainstream Turbo). However, I'm rarely in crawling traffic and don't do much town work. I've found the PPP is more fuel-sensitive to the demands I've made on it.... but then it allows a whole new series of demands to be made!!

Phil

BTW, Tony, edit this to see the wink smiley.... you've had a couple of failures in recent posts

 

Since reading a few of the posts in this thread, and fairly regular reading of an email from a certain well known person. The temptation to get the PPP has now become worrying!

I would love to have a go in a PPP'd STI just before taking the plunge. So if anyone on here with a PPP'd STI lives near Edinburgh, I'm going to be there from the 24th Jan until 26th Jan, and wouldn't mind sitting in the passenger seat even to just see how she goes.

Shaun

 

'melted boost pipes' what does that mean? I can understand the pipework coming loose or fracturing but melting??. I've never heard this before.Personally I still think three STi PPPs going pop pop in as many weeks needs a better explanation

 

Could have been a 1000 unrelated things, get over it. Do you own a STI type uk with PPP BTW?

 

Trust me, Urban!
(Doesn't make the car go slower, so doesn't make the rattle worse )