juan

onwards to page 10!

ok now I'm confused:

SBS 60-100 7-7.5
P1 60-100 8.0
22B 60-100 8.0

rich uk300

6 secs for me in the P1

so going by these dodgy methods of timing these runs sb statement is spot on

lpitt

Dugge4:

I've been at it with mine for over a year now - just don't tell my wife

Laurence

chrisp

Juan just to say that SBS isnt standard if it pumping out 270bhp then it will have a weight advantage over a P1 and 22B.

Power to weight

22B 220bhp/ton
P1 219bhp/ton
UK turbo 177bhp/ton

Assuming SBS ecutec and decatted is pushing out 270bhp then :
SBS 223bhp/ton

Not a lot more but should be at least as quick.



[Edited by chrisp - 1/22/2003 10:56:00 PM]

LG John

I didn't know the P1 was heavier than my car You learn something new every day My 7.0-7.5 times were done with primative methods by comparison to the timing gear that would have been used to figure the P1 and 22b. Depsite my best efforts to reduce error the could easily be out by +/- 0.5 of a second. I'd be very suprised if it was any more than that though. I've never played with a standard P1 so I really can't comment on likely differences.

I have however driven a CTR and I was very impressed. I expected it to be like the 172 (i.e. only a tiny fraction faster than my vts) This was not the case, the CTR felt and was a lot quicker than the saxo which felt slow when I jumped back into it. Nevertheless I don't think it was faster than a classic shape turbo - it was pretty close though The problem with the CTR is you can't afford mistakes. Lets just say (for the sake of argument) that a CTR and classic scooby were to race through dry twisties. If the scooby driver fluffs a change or selects the wrong gear there will still be enough pull from the turbo for it not to be a major problem. If the CTR driver does the same and drops well out of VTEC then he/she is in trouble. With the best will in the world you can't drive perfectly all the time.

There is no doubt its the king of the hot-hatches at the moment and I have also noticed how religiously their owners defend them You should see them on Saxo Sports Club

And no, I didn't think this thread would last so long It's quite interesting though

Carlos The Jackel

SB get yourself one of these, i've spoken to people on the Clio/Fezzie boards and the seem to find them relativly accurate for what they are

http://www.race-technology.com/WebPa...eterIntro.html

juan

not that its relevant but where does the 270bhp figure come from?

bhp/ton is rather irrelevent in this test imo - sounds like my old evo was similar to SB's scoob in that it had great breathing that upped the torque by 50lb/ft (but not much difference to the bhp) - it was awesome from under 2,500 rpm and would do most motors up to 70/80 but would become progressively less amazing from that speed onwards.

anyway, to back my argument up I offer the following:
My evo had 216bhp/tonne but would not do 8 secs 60-100
Standard Fiat Coupe 20v turbo has 161 bhp/ton and does do 60-100 in 8 secs


btw what base scoob do you have SB, I'm sorry but I'm not aware

regards

chrisp

I am sure I read soemwhere that SBS had about 270bhp, maybe wrong. The P1 has UK ratios so a Uk turbo car with similar power and less weight and same shape is going to be roughly the same. Fiat has a lower drag than an EVO so that doesnt surprise me. You may find a calibra turbo has a good 60-100 time as well due to low drag.

chrisp

BTW

P1 is 1285kgs
22B is 1270kgs
UK Turbo 1235kgs

Mmmmm

I timed my m3 cab 65-105 (roof down) and it does it in nearly 9s flat.

65-105 hood down

Car wieghs 1740 Kg 343bhp

It took just about 13s to go 60-120 again with the roof down

60-120 hood down

It takes around 7.1-2s 60-100.


It might be a fraction quicker with hood up due to better aero dynamics.

In driving I have found very few cars that can pull as hard as it and even fewer that can pull away.

[Edited by Mmmmm - 1/23/2003 12:24:16 PM]

LG John

270bhp is the expected power for a fully decatted UK with tek 2.5. I personally don't care how much power some inaccurate RR says it has, I'm only interested in how it goes/feels on the open road and 1/4 mile times (not figuered yet).

Just prior to buying my scooby I considered a Fiat Coupe 20VT as my mate had one and I'd been in it. When I went for the scoob my aim was to mod it to at the very least match the 60-100 time of the fiat thus making it quicker 0-100 (got to get ahead of the Jones's ). Unfortunately my mate doesn't have the fiat anymore so I can't compare but having been in it I think my scooby would be a little quicker from 60-100. The fiat is so quick because it has the drag co of a dart and only two wheels to sap power

LG John

Oh, I have an MY99 uk car It can be really moody and fly one day but not the next - I found the vts was like that so I assume its normal

juan

couple of questions for you..

sorry for my ignorance, but what is a tek 2.5?
standard bhp for a uk turbo is 215bhp?

LG John

Its John Banks, one size fits all, custom remap

The standard UK car has 215bhp. My car has had the exahust changed for a scoobysport one, thus getting rid of two cats. The Tek 2.5 allows me to run more boost and is mapped accordingly for the increased boost. I use a dawes as the method of boost control. For a little extra safety I upgraded to an STI V intercooler but the jury is still out as to what difference this has made. I'd like a bigger turbo but funds do not permit

juan

chrisp - To compare the performance of the 3 models like that I guess it would depend on whether the remap and controller etc. mimic the power delivery of the P1 / 22B. From what I had gathered on SBS there was a lot of low down grunt but runs out towards the top.

If SB can go faster with these mods then P1 / 22B boys must be a bit gutted??

chrisp

You try and find a standard P1 or 22B though . Seriously it depends what you want. I had a UK and rather than spend money on it and get it upto 270-280 bhp I wanted a new car and went for my RA which came with 276 bhp out of the shop. Sure a UK can attain the same power but the warranty would be screwed which is the only real advantage of owning a UK model IMHO. The spec of my v-lim far exceeded the equivalently price UK model another reason I went for it. Also my RA had a low ratio box which flies and has virtually no lag and revs cleanly and hard from 2,500 to 7,500 rpm.

The UK models tend to get stuck at about 280-300bhp as they then require bigger/more expensive bits to be put in, eg. new turbo, (like SB has mentioned). Sure you can mod a UK car but you start from a lower point and it costs you more because of that.

Chnage the exhaust and remap a P1/22B/import and you can probably get 300-320 fairly cheaply and retains a 40-50bhp difference.

LG John

The thing to remember is the delivery in my car is still similar to standard. When I raced sipie's near standard scooby there was no point where my car suddenly took off and left him and I remember being initially dissapointed thinking, 'I can't beat him, I can't beat him!!!' But this is because both cars still have the same turbo it just that mines is working slightly harder. What my car did do was slowly but surely the whole way throughout the rev range pull away - no short bursts, just eased away. A P1 may have pulled a way with a bit more visual drama (shorter but quicker bursts) as the bigger turbo kicks in but ultimately the actual distance put on the standard UK would be about the same. I hope that makes some sense.

I quite like having a modified UK model. I like the fact it looks fairly standard from the outside but has that little extra turn of pace. I'm going to an airfield day soon so it'll be good to get a comparison with other scoobys

chrisp

SB I see that you are running a STI V intercooler are you running a P1/STi5 VF28 turbo as well ?

LG John

Only in my dreams Chrisp.....<sigh>....only in my dreams