jonmorris

Please stop this inane banter ChrisP!

How can you say "Fair enough we are upto three" as if that's it?

Do you expect every single Cossie owner and ex-Cossie owner to come on here and post? Can you not finally accept that people ARE selling Cosworths to get the Focus but they aren't all on this forum, or RS Owners Club members.

You cannot keep saying "Seems a lot of people defending it but have no intention of buying it because they still think their cossie is better." because you've got no evidence based on what has been posted here. So unless you know something we don't, you're obviously wrong and desperately trying to support your argument by repeating the same thing over and over again.

And going back to the pricing issue; This is getting to be a joke. OF COURSE THE PRICES WILL VARY. Colour, mileage, condition, modifications, whether it was a Lux, Leather, service history, if had been in an accident etc... Crikey, there are loads of factors.

We have to assume for the sake of argument that we're comparing equally good condition cars, not an A1 P1 (sic) against a 100k accident damaged Escort with unknown mods and broken trim.

Finally, as for eBay, I think you've missed the boat a little with selling DVDs and videos on there. Now everyone is doing it. My friend was selling stuff over a year ago (even he started quite late) and now it's drying up. So encouraging more people to do it isn't really helping your own business!

Jonathan

Ian2wdsaffcos

RB5 286,

Are you sure on the 495lb/ft of torque mate as I'm fairly sure that would make your mates Cossie the most torquey in the country.....especially at that bhp level, highest I've heard of is Bruce Read's 542bhp RS500 which I believe to be 492lb/ft. Most 500+bhp cossie's pump out between 410 & 450lb/ft. So he might consider a mag article.

Also, this smoking the rear tyres at 130mph, is that in the dry???

Cheers,
Ian

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

405, not 495. was a mistype, sorry didnt realize.

dropped it from 5th to 4th @ around 125-130 and nailed it back twictched and smoke belched, his tyres were pretty much worn so there werent much grip that was the reason y mostly.

i didnt say that to boast or anything, just scared the $hit outa me until he got new tyres.

trouble was that after 6 months (5k miles, the engine went bang) 2nd time in 1 year.

thats the only trouble with these high powered engines, they never seem to be reliable

supraTT

Saxoboy - pmsl......get a life will you, where do you get these "what ifs" from with the TVR cr@p !! LMAO !!

WHAT IF i spent £30k on a car that would wipe the TVR ?????

OMG ....really.....ANYTHING to try and come out tops eh ? LOL

The P1 has it "stitched up or matched" ?? LMAO yeah....nobody can come close to how many publicised faults their cars have engine wise from a flat four LMAO !!

The fact that yes " a ten year old" ford had the same boasting potential TEN YEARS AGO says something mate.....

P1 aint all its cracked up to be !

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

supraTT: wots wrong with the P1.

please let me know as I dont

This is a genuine question

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

supraTT: wots wrong with the P1.

please let me know as I dont

This is a genuine question

co55ie

Lets not forget that the scoob is well over ten years old too. Way past its sell by date now even the new 2003 has the same old engine faults and all. They can't even be bothered to modify the engine so it don't blow up. You can't even make a claim on your warranty as the engine goes bang to poor design.

The RS focus is faster, handles better, stops better, looks better, is built better has group 16 insurance and won't depreciate like a scoob.
Name one area that a wrx is better than a Focus RS you can't. If subaru had made this car you would all be bleating about how greai it was as its a ford that means its cack. As a performance car it destroys a WRX and is a rival for STi or P1 on a ny track and costs 10k less.

Ian2wdsaffcos

RB5 286,

No problemo mate, was just curious. Do you know who built his engine & if he had it live-mapped?? Just asking as I'm considering upgrading from 350bhp next year.

Cheers,
Ian

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

was all sorted by ahmed himself and Mark @ Grove garage (Romford, Essex)

ahmed is the only way to go, wot he doesnt know about cossies aint worth knowing. 07885144442 if u wana call him.

just say BIG Mark mentioed him

LG John

****, I was posting on the basis that you (SupraTT) seemed to be a clear thinking, non-blinkered, mature cossie owner but it seems IMO (based only on what you type - I don't know you) that you're not, and are in fact like nearly every other Cossie owner I've met (there are some exceptions )

No point in continuing this conversation as it will lead no where because cossies are the best cars in the world ever

It just seems to me that most of you cossie owners/drivers/lovers are only concerned with straight-line acceleration and what car can go from 100mph to 150mph the quickest! Thats sad. As I said, if that's all you want then I'll get you a far faster machine for the same money as your cossie or a P1.

3times

If Cosworths, Especially Escorts are so fast and handle so well, and are so reliable, why do we not see many,if any, on the track. I mean if they are that good surely thats the place to prove it.

johnnybenceP1

Just glanced at this thread - curious. I spent last weekend blasting around Anglesey racing circuit in my P1 (which - by the way - in the 18 months I've had it has proved reliable and faultless), whereupon I was met by two Sierra Cossies merrily oversteering around the corners when not spinning of the track. I've seen them at other tracks quite often as well. And I've humbled them everytime! Wet or dry. They are fun cars to drive, and I'm not being disrespectful to the cars or their owners by saying that I've not met one cossie yet that can get around a track faster than a P1.

chrisp

Jon just I wanted to know how many if you dont know fair enough. I am not reading anything into it. It just there are a lot cossie owners on this thread but none are buying, why is that ?

Price ?

Performance ?

FWD ?

Hasnt got a cossie badge ?


When the new bugeye/STI7 came out it took a bit of kicking but there are now a lot people who have brought them.

I genuinely like the Focus, as I own one , have you ? I have also owned in the past 3 other fords, my dad and my sister have one currently. So you can say we like Fords.

I would seriously consider a 4wd 300bhp Focus (as would anyone into performance cars) to replace my scoob with but I dont consider the RS has gone far enough and still behind in the power stakes. Much like I guess the cossie owners. Read back I didnt start the my cars worth thousands and yours are worth 20p stuff. It just gets on my nerves when stuff is posted which isnt right (unless I am posting it ).

I just get the feeling if I dont agree then I am classed as ignorant or arrogant or blind or missing the point or stupid. Well if thats the case it really dont matter what I think does it as you have made you mind up the type of person I am.

Its funny but when I meet guys at trackdays with cossies there is never again problems just friendly banter and fellow petrolheads no matter what you drive. I am not posting with the intention of winding cossie guys up as I always dreamed of having an escort cossie. I felt when I had the money I and wanted one at the time (1998) I coudl have a brand new scoob for 20K and escort cossies were still fetching big money, teh cossie I looked at : some were badly tunned, most had no warranties (pre 3 year warranty days which I got with my scoob), insurance on them , some had dubious pasts and local dealers didnt want to know . It was a minefield to buy a cossie and the scoob was the safe and easy option.

I am sorry we dont seem to be getting on as I know quite a few cossie guys and its always fun with the banter and I dont take things personally as that aint my style.

This post isnt trying to add fuel to the fire just an explantion of where I am coming from.

cheers

ChrisP

Nick200

My god your all mad.

I have got a 250 bhp 200sx a fiat bravo hgt and not long sold my cossie 300 bhp( only had it 6 months thing kept going t$ts up around the engine area), who cares, obviuosly you lot, but why I dont yet have a scoob but that is something shortly to be rectified, because where else can I buy a 280 bhp car in mint condition for 8k that I will enjoy driving and will put a smile back on my face after a hard days work, only subaru can give me that. There is no use in arguing about whos car is worth more because a focus of 20k maybe faster than a uk model or even a P1 but P1's are cheaper and for that matter so are a lot of other fast Imprezza models. So go and spend your money and I'll spend mine and I'm sure everyone will be happy...

Carlos The Jackel

What tests? I havent seen any tests on Stage 3 or modded Scort Cossies. And why not the fascination with acceleration? Would you prefer cornering? Hmmm a Train can definatly corner faster than a P1! So can a Harrier Im sure a 30K P1 and 30K worth of modded escort would be pretty close on a twisty circuit. All cars are different and people love them for different reasons - why the slagging of other models I dont know - I would have a Cossie/Evo/Lancier/M3 any day of the week without having to slag the others off whilst owning one! I can dislike a style of car or the set up of one but to generally hate cars/manufaturers as lots on these forums seems pathetic and some people should go outside more! I guess a side effect of a fast car is no money to drive it anywhere!

LG John

Carols I didn't mean 'tests' literally, as in 'This month....P1 V's Stage 3 cossie' I meant the kind of test most people would apply when sniffing around the car and thinking of buying. I personally think if you took a random selection of 100 punters of the street and offered them a Stage 3 Cossie or a P1 (every gets a chance of a good mixed conditions drive) then most would take the P1......I know I would

Acceleration is great and of course I'd have more if I could but I feel that most scoobs are a jack of all trades. Usually that term is used to slag something/one off but I feel in cars a 'jack of all trades' is just what you want. I used to love the VTS.....till it rained! The only time I don't enjoy the scooby is when I'm putting fuel in it or handing it over to a garage for a service - other than that I can enjoy it anywhere anytime and even in traffic (the burble or my tunes )

Ian2wdsaffcos

Yeah I WAS gonna go with Ahmed (as I go to Castle Performance & they use him for the mapping side of things) but recently I have heard of quite a few of his engines (or the ones he has mapped) going t1ts up.....just like your mates!!! So I'm not so sure now!!

Redkop

Ian it is wrong to listen to the bad things you have heard and base your decision on those alone. After all I bet there are a lot more far happier customers out there - than the unhappy ones!

supraTT

Debate has gone on long enough, Saxo Boy - Sorry if ic ame across the wrong way, wasnt meant, i like to consider myself a mature cossie owner and you probably know your stuff too about Scoobies.

Its just that cossie owners CAN admit that cossies arent the greatest cars ever, BUT......BUT.....Scooby owners cant hear a WORD against anything beating their near-flagship P1 it seems.

Seeing as i was asked a GENUINE QUESTION as to whats wrong with the P1....How about the engines go pop more often than anything else, and subaru just keep churning them out without actually looking into rectifying it or working on the problem ??

Thats my honest answer....

I actually LIKE the look of the P1. But its let down by the typical subaru weakspot i just mentiond and the fact that it just doesnt get any better.

chrisp

The most important reason and the reason people like 4x4 escort cossies, you can tune them without compromising the chassis.

I am sure that 220bhp FRS is a cracking car but how would a FRS handle 300bhp through the front wheels ?, who knows. How much will it cost to get that sort of power as Ford have spent alot time, effort and R&D to get this car on the market.

If you buy one and intend to leave it standard then okay. If you are into mild or major tunning then it may not be the car you are after.

A alway thought (maybe wrongly) that the fun of these cars is that you can buy one and for a few hundred quid get something with 300+bhp ?.

scoobynutta555

I see the idiots are still here

Scoobynutta do you have any grasp of economics ?

err yes, for starters i have a degree in business with Hons.

I wasnt refering to the new shape wrx, i thought your bone of contention was with the P1. The bug eye is a car i dont personally like, along with quite a few others, lets see how the revised shape goes shall we?

"15k tops for it (P1) in march next year and you wont find it easy to sell either. Who wants a car that they know that the engines going to blow up at approx 30k miles."

What a crock of ****. Go find me an early reg P1 with your 15k. And as for your very technical arguement of a car that engine pops at approx 30k miles, another load of cobblers. Even the rare ones that do let go will be covered under warranty. In fact ill wager that cossies with idiot owners trying to wring more bhp out of their cars by extensively modding them blow up more often. Why do they chip them? Because in standard form they are quite slow, 0-60 in 5.7 and a top speed of nearly 140 mph doesnt set the world alight these days.

And as for the cuckoo land comment that the RS is a match for import stis or P1s, that is so laughable it must be a windup. 170bhp and a dodgy front wheel drive system versus 280 plus bhp 4 wheel drive? It dont take Einstein to work out the Daddy.

And lol at the comments about the cossies falling off race tracks, ill bet that said drivers all had 300-400 bhp "subaru killing" cars.

Jez 200

Any one read the new Evo? This month is the car of the year award's...pretty much sum's up the whole Focus vs Scooby debate

rich uk300

Its just that cossie owners CAN admit that cossies arent the greatest cars ever, BUT......BUT.....Scooby owners cant hear a WORD against anything beating their near-flagship P1 it seems



i have no doubt that there are plenty of cars that could beat a p1


ermmmm problem reading my answer then

WRXsoon

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DRIVER!

So i think

Thanks..

LG John

No probs SupraTT Your right in that the P1 engine (I've heard) really doesn't take to being tuned like the other scooby engines...no idea why

I don't think scoobs are the best car in the world either! I actually think for the price you can get them for knew (and the free insurance) that a VTS is a better new buy than a WRX but it just can't touch the WRX in some of the departments which I feel are important to me. An elise would be a nice car for me to have but its just a little too impractical and I think I'd miss the savage acceleration feeling.

I guess you go for whatever floats your boat or whatever you can afford. If I had the cash I'd have an M3 I must confess I'm not a ford fan though, I just never took to them as a kid! I'd have a GT40 though and maybe a mega-modified Capri.....with fluffy dice

madmacslemon

Come in a bit late i know, but i was with rich and his P1 when he had it on the rollers, it is standard, not de-catted, box air filter etc, and Katana, not all that money was spent on mods to get more bhp, only had de-cat and panel filter, rest went on service,bushes,flywheels,cambelt etc.
And no a 330bhp cossie wouldn't "pi55" on a 300bhp scoob, might be half a car length in it, to pi55 on something would need to be a least two car lengths, and still pulling away.

chiark

Could it be that it's already in a higher state of tune and has a bit less headroom because of that?

Kenny, a few people are agreeing with some of your posts on here - what's going on????? And where's the outwith?
Cheers,
Nick.

ScoobyKev

I could beat the p1 in my GT4 WRC...and no I'm not starting a debate GT4 Vs Scooby.

350 bhp~320 lbft

Thats one car the p1 can't beat

Regards

Kev..

jonmorris

ChrisP, you mention the Focus RS being FWD and not enough power.

Well, it's got enough power to satisfy most people. I'm not intending to modify the car any more than I did with my Escort (320-500BHP? Not for an every day car thank you very much).

There will soon be an official mod or two for the FRS bringing it up to around 260-270 (and hopefully keeping the warranty intact). To be honest, I can't see any mods beyond that as FWD isn't the best way to put that power down.

So, in terms of mods the Focus RS isn't going to be that appealing. Then again, look at how many people pay good money for a standard Cosworth...

FWD was all Ford could do with the current platform. This problem disappears with the next gen Focus - and the Focus RS is the first in a new range of RS vehicles, which will almost certainly include the Mondeo and Fiesta too, or perhaps the relaunched Capri..?

4WD will be easy and the shared platform means Ford can share things between Volvo and Jaguar. Making a Cosworth Focus would be 'simple' and cost effective. Ford would struggle to make a £25-30k car in limited numbers unless the production cost was low, so forget anything remotely like the Cossies of yesteryear. Sad perhaps, but modern cars can still offer extreme excitement and performance even if they're not "rally bred".

The Focus RS is great on the track but it's being sold as a ROAD car. It does this job perfectly and few people take their cars on the track on a regular basis.

Jonathan

rich uk300

scoobykev......are you going to come up to santa pod next year...would be interesting to go against you