babber

Got to be the RB5 mate, stick with it and don't waste your money. I went to a Rallyday at Castle Coombe a few months ago, and saw one RB5 WRSport (no standard RB5) There were at least twenty P1..... Common as muck

Cheers Phill C

R.B.5

Yup my thoughts exactly. I'm going to keep my RB5 and modify her a bit. FMIC and bigger hybrid turbo etc. Looking at RC developments website for stage increases. Looks very good.

Scooby-Doo

Have you thought about a Terzo

Josh L

That's a strange suggestion, given the cars he's considering !?!?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Gordo,
no doubt your referring to me as the biggotted nobber then [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
now if you look at how many posts i have i think ive a little bit more in the way of knowledge over you and having driven both (and both are excellent cars ) which i have said its just that the STi7 is a better car all round the P1 has many faults (engine failures etc) and it was no where near the big hit that Prodrive or IM wanted
You will also find that P1's have been nicely run in over the last few years, and if you have owned your scoob from new you will also take into consideration that they are VERY tight for a good 3-4k miles before they loosen up (my scoob definately was) so test driving a new STi7 over a run in P1 will feel quite different but the 6 speed box on the 7 is much better than the somewhat cr@ppy box on the classic shaped scoob (and i own a classic shaped scoob!)
Now everyone who thinks that owning a scoob is about hugh bhp should think again, its about the all round package that this car offers, something that some people seem to forget (and thus the reason that the RB5 is rated higher than a P1 by quite a few people ) and even though the ugly bug WRX scoobs may not look the part or anywhere near as agressive as the classic cars they are an improvement in build quality (if not unfortunately running the same running gear/setup as the old turbo models).
The STi on the other hand took a big leap and decided to correct the points that people were complaining about (clutch, gearbox, brakes etc) and so made a better car out of it so if you think that a P1 is much better than the new STi7 then you may as well be living in 2002 with a new mk2 escort with full lepoard skin seat covers and furry dice with a sunshade saying Bob and Mary
Nuff said

Tony

medders

Mmmmmm. think we all have different definitions of "better car"

I personally bought a scoob as a replacement for a TVR griff. I wanted to feel the kick in the back (not as much as the tiv but not too far off) and was amazed by the handling. I bought another turbo, then a P1 over the years. I love them. Now to me, they have a crap interior but go like stink. thats what I want. I want supportive seats, a good steering wheel and thats it. I personally don't care if the cup holder is stronger. i want to feel the power and the handling. When the wrx came out, I had the urge for a new car. i drove the wrx, and yes it was tight, but then so was my turbo when I drove that.
I must say that I was gutted when I drove the wrx. It handled well, but thats because it didn't go as fast. Felt soulless (to me)
Jumped in a nearly new (250 miles) P1 - all better.

haven't driven an sti, but had a play with one on a b road. he kept up, but then I don't go mad. hate the look though.
Having read the reviews of the sti, and is confirmed in the ppp review, it has no bottom end. My P1 goes at any revs. if I put my foot down in 5th at 80 - 90 it goes. thats what makes it a "good car" for me. If an sti doesn't do that, I don't want one, as I think a scoob should have the properties I've mentioned.

However, the new new shape has some interesting tweaks and with a PPP looks like i may be changing soon

BMW and Merc make comfy quality cars. Subaru should stick to what they do best (IMO) thats what i want. If the new one feels disappointing I'll find a enw marque.

Stats on ppp look good though.

cheers

paul


ps Tony you are not a nobber, you are a respected member of the board (you're just wrong in this case )

Scoobybits

stick to the rb5!!!

medders

get the 2003 ppp

SiWhite

Having read the varous opinions on this thread, all I can say is go and drive a P1 and make up your own mind. I own a slightly modded P1 and it is the first Scooby and only Scooby I have ever had. I went to the dealers to buy an RB5, test drove an RB5 and then a P1 and bought the P1.

I am used to reading posts on here every day slagging off my car, and still don't understand why people on this site are so quick to knock it.

I have had a test-drive in an Sti7 Prodrive "Style" and a good friend of mine has had one for a few months now so I have spent a lot of time as a passenger in one.

Basically, I would never even dream of changeing my car for an STi7 if even it had PPP and was as quick in a straight line as my P1. The reason being that I far prefer the way my car drives, I just don't really like the feeling I get from the Sti7, its something that I cannot really put in to a few words, but I just enjoy driving my P1 more than I would ever enjoy driving an Sti7, I get excited whenever I get in to my car even if I am only driving for a couple of miles down the road, I cannot imagine this happening if I had an Sti7.

It all comes down to personal preferences, I preferred the P1 to the RB5 when I drove them both and was prepared to pay the extra money for a newer car which had better performance.

Also, I have done over 20,000 hard miles in my car without a single problem whatsoever. i.e. No engine blow-ups, no flaking paint, no orange on black grills in front splitter, etc., etc.

scoobynutta555

Now everyone who thinks that owning a scoob is about hugh bhp should think again, its about the all round package that this car offers, something that some people seem to forget (and thus the reason that the RB5 is rated higher than a P1 by quite a few people

erm, isnt the rb5 very similar to the std uk impreza? As i recall only the paint, wheels and the dodgy fog covers are different along with a few modifications? Unless you get a wr model which is basically a ppp with ***** on. Id find it difficult to point to anything that makes an rb5 a better all round package than a P1. But then what do i know. I also wouldnt even dream of considering changing my P1 for any bug eye. They are generally ridiculed for their looks and i dare say will be the forgotten model when the newer shape model arrives.

R.B.5

Hmm i think i've started something quite bizzare here. People seem to be angry at others for some reason.

Listen guys there's a whole lot of testosterone in here at the moment and opinions differ, we all have the right to our own opinions and it is nice of people to voice them now and again. But that said we all need to remember we ALL own scooby's be they old or new. We ALL have our reasons for liking or diskliking a certain car but there is no need to be angry or make other people angry by saying things out of turn, and no i am not pointing any finger just stating that people seem to be wound up about the STI7/P1 thing.

I have decided after driving the P1 that other than suspension setup and 2 doors less there really isn't much difference between my modded RB5 and the P1 that i drove. Very nice car all the same but i will be sticking to what i feel is right for me and that happens to be my current car.

I will modify the RB5 further to achieve more power and more smiles.

I'd like to thank you all again for the posts and believe it or not they all have their own meaning and have helped me make my decision.

Thanks

Gavin

babber

Lol, this is so funny the laryness. I could buy an STi7 (or STi8) P1, 22b at a push, but I'm happy with my RB5 WRSport. It's lovely, and I'll keep it until it rusts away Had a MY00 before, driven loads of P1s, few WRX and STis. I reckon the P1 has the looks

I love P1s and infact all Scoobies including the ones running 15 " wheels

Not to keen on the bug eyes as they look ****e, including the STi7, the STi8 well it growing on me.

Reason I like the RB5 so much ?? Well it different to all the UK cars and stands out, but not as much as the P1.

Cheers Phill C

PS Dare I say it I even like Cossies and RS turbos

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well if you consider the P1 there is a right bargain for sale in the for sale section, 5k miles for 19k

Tony

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

Tony,

you're obviously very very jeolous of us P1 owners by all the cr*p that you've been writing in your posts.

Steve.

CJ P1

Just sold my P1. Sorry to see it go but times change. My brother had an RB5.....there really is no comparison. It was a good car but the P1 was way ahead in all areas except one. The RB5 had more doors. IMHO all scoobies are great cars but some are just a little bit greater than others.

I'm always amused by the low value scoobynet members place on the P1, there's no way I would have let mine go for the sort of money people talk about here, I guess I must have been lucky.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
sorry if you think that i overrate a car that is overrated but the STi5 wasnt the best that Subaru ever produced nore is the P1, if you think that the P1 is all singing and all dancing then good luck to you as it isnt as most people have found out to their expense (and IM are very happy about you spending 31k for a new P1 when you could have bought the same Jap Import car for 5k less ) so who looses out in the end? errrrrm the P1 owner as you can see a prestine car with 5k on the clock is going for 19k, a loss of 12k in 2 years, quite hefty eh
We all know that the P1 never produced what it was suppose to, ultimate subaru performance, even the evo6 was rated better but never think that your car is the best because it isnt even my subaru impreza turbo isnt and i OWN my car (ie nothing owned to the bank )
I love my car for what it is, great fun but there is better out there (ie the STi7) and having driven both the STi7 and a P1 i rate the STi7 higher than the P1 even though the P1 looks better, is rawer and has more performance, something that seems to elude alot of Subaru owners
I hated the looks of the Bug eyed scoob when it came out, i slated it too, but it is a better car than mine, you lot seem to have your head shoved in a dark place considering that there is even better cars than a P1 that Subaru made (ie the STi5/6 type RA V-ltd's or even the S201).
People seem to slate cars that they have never driven, the P1 is an excellent car as i have said, some P1 owners like them better than the STi7 due to looks, but if you were given the option of buying a ferrari that looked like the back of a bus that had 700bhp or a P1 for the same price i think you would all go for the ferrari due to the power it had
This is what really hacks me off [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I think that alot of you are afraid of advancements in technology, scared that your car is now outdated and that you have something that has been bettered [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] its annoying because you cant see beyond your *** and you seem to think that everything evolves around your car, well it doesnt
The 22B is a better car IMHO than a P1, it may not fair as well on the road due to stiffer suspension but it is lighter and has more presence to it it gives the best that Subaru had at the time (an STi v4) and made an icon in motoring history it holds its value (unlike the P1) it is more suited to the track though than a bumpy country lane, but look at what is now available compared with 4-5 years ago, much more, a 6 speed box (and unless you lot have ever used a 6 speed box to its advantage and found that it IS better than a 5 speed box for performance) it keeps the power where it should be, in the rev range (look at cars like the Civic type R and the 306 GTi-6), so if you stuck up bunch of w****rs are so far up your own ***** thinking you own the best car on the road then think again, its called evolution and the STi has evolved since the 5.

Tony

scoobynutta555

hmmm im too tired to reply to the above post in detail. I would suggest that your comments on here show that you obviously have a great deal of skill. Id advise you to publish a book of fairy tales, top seller guaranteed. Like the weight issue, i have read that the P1 has 215 bhp per tonne versus the 22b's 212 per tonne.

And regards the ferrari comment for P1 money, ill have the P1 please. Yes i did buy the P1 brand new, and no i didnt pay full list and i got a very good trade in for an import at an official dealer. Am i happy with my car, yes, and would i swap for "new and improved bug eye" no way at all.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

22B has 220bhp per tonne,
P1 has 219bhp per tonne

Tony

PS so you wouldnt swap your P1 for an S202 then? i think most people would

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

Tony,

LOL, I nearly fell off me chair

So what BHP/Tonne does the STI7 have ?

Steve

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

188bhp per tonne Steve but with a PPP that should put it up to around 210bhp per tonne

Tony

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

I knew i'd seen a comparison.

EVO mag - July 2000. STI 7 UK group tested. They chucked in couple of past masters for comparison - P1 and 993. Here's what they said -

"P1, runner up to the 911 turbo in ECOTY 2000, the P1 was the ultimate real-world hero, able to humble genuine supercars on a give and take road.
The grudge match between it, the STI 7 and the EVO 7 RS, is an obvious one, but the convincing fashion in which it stamps its authority over both of them comes as something of a surprise. It's the way it copes with the unexpected that set in apart, the more predictable balance and less extreme reaction to throttle and steering inputs that enable you to cover ground that little bit faster and more smoothly. By comparison the EVO seems unnecessarily intimidating, the STI ultimatley ragged. Both have the capacity to bite you in situations where the P1 will do it's best to look after you. If you're attracted to the promise of all weather ability, higher levels of roadholding and flattering handling it remains the benchmark.
The P1 also manages to look more special than either"

I rest my case.

Steve.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

LOL!
i know Steve ive got that issue of Evo but the P1 will bite you just as hard as any other Scoob will, they are just as sensitive to lift off oversteer as the STi7, the STi7 though has to be driven differently to other scoobs due to its suretrac diffs, it will bite if you lift off but your not suppose to lift off your suppose to keep your foot plated!
Anyway, when did the P1 win drivers car of the year?

Tony

KWS

Where does the 280+bhp Jap STi7 fall into all this?

Surely its the answer to all your problems!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I wont really say anything about that but Evo quote it as having 196bhp per tonne and quicker to 100 than a P1 but thats the advantage of a 6speed box for you

Tony

scoobynutta555

well i guess both warrenders official write up on the 22b and an exhaustive write up on the p1 by Autoexpress bow to your superior knowledge on weight/power. Also on most figures i have seen the P1 is marginally quicker to 60 and has a 5 mph higher top end. No doubt youll quote some equally obscure figs to back up the 22b! lol

regarding the s202, its still a bug eye and i have previously said id never have any bug eye, s202 included. For starters they werent an official import, and the 306 bhp im running on my p1 wont be far off the s202 figure which is doubtlessly more costly.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Actually the S202's cost 32k brand new from Litchfield imports and given the fact that they are CONSIDERABLY better than a P1 (just look how much developement went into it on STi's behalf ) it will be quicker though and in gears compared to a P1, handle better and be a safer car.
I see that P1 owners seem to get upperty when someone says that there is a better car out there, no doubt you lot should take note that the Evo6 drivers had this same discussion about the Evo7, saying that the 6 was better, looked better etc, unfortunately they have been proved wrong, the 7 is even though a slightly heavier car, a quicker car and ok its not the best looker in the field but it also doesnt look like its come out of halfords like the 6 did
I own a classic MY00 turbo, i LOVE my scoob its great but there are better cars out there (yes the P1 is a better car than my scoob but then again the STi7 is a better car than the P1) But some people cannot see that developement actually IMPROVES the car (thus the reason that the JDM STi7 is quicker than a P1).
You compare your P1 to the developements that the fugly bug STi made, you may be shocked to see that BETTER components have been used and that 5 speed box that resides in ALL classic scoobs (including my MY00 Turbo) is exactly the same as those in the STi's (except gear ratios differ).
The rather pathetic brakes that came standard on the P1 were the same that i had on my Turbo, now gone due to the fact they were useless and replaced with some Brembo's something i would have thought they would have upgraded before they released the P1 (but no they didnt )
Lighter and quicker does not make your car better, just remember that
Oh and re the 22B, the STi4 type R's that the 22B's were based on kept the same ratio's AFAIK except the UK 22B's that had the 5th changed.

Tony

scoobynutta555

Think its not P1 owners here with the complex, seems to be you. I have no doubt u spend much time on here defending a lost cause, ie, how "good" the bug eyes are.

I dont care what developments fugly has over a P1, its still a slower and far uglier car, end of. In my books thats regression not progression. Regarding the s202, its more expensive than a P1, it has no 3 year fully comprehensive warranty, and IMHO looks just as bad as any other bug eye, especially in a garish yellow.

scoobynutta555

now im off, i have better things to do, u keep your fugly and ill keep my p1, we'll both be happy then

Josh L

For God's sake girls, the guy asked for a little guidance, this has simply turned into a 'this car's better than that car' slanging match.

Nobody forced people to buy P1s and STi 7s. Whichever one they chose, if they're happy with it that's all that matters.

As a P1 owner I'm absolutely sick of morons who seem intent on trying to tell me what a **** car I bought, and I'm sure bugeye owners suffer likewise.

Steve, I admire your loyalty, but surely enough is enough.

Tony, You really need to get a hobby.

Josh

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

I've put my hand bag away now



Steve