Ultimate Fuel Mix?
19 September 2002, 06:25 PM
#31
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Glad everybody is interested in this subject. After reading the replies to my original question, and the writings of the famous Mycroft on the GTR forum, I will be further experementing with Toluene on a track day next week. I now have a 5 gallon drum of Tol and will let you all know the results soon 
.
I gave it a test run but the car was over boosting. Some adjustment to the ABC Board and we will see....
Saying that the car (in between stutters) felt explosive.
Toluene may be the answer.
.I gave it a test run but the car was over boosting. Some adjustment to the ABC Board and we will see....
Saying that the car (in between stutters) felt explosive.
Toluene may be the answer.
19 September 2002, 09:28 PM
#32
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Ive just bought some thinner, which according to the back of the 5L tin says Tolulene, Xylene, Methanol (1-5%). I want to know if firstly, this is the stuff to use and secondly that a mix ratio of 2Litres (Thinner) - 20 Litres 97 (SUL)
JVS - Where did you get your 5Gal of Tol from, is it neat and what was the cost ??
JVS - Where did you get your 5Gal of Tol from, is it neat and what was the cost ??
20 September 2002, 11:23 AM
#37
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http://www.albionchemicals.co.uk/pro...asp?Search=Yes
Which toluene is required?
Storage and handling requirements - US but useful: http://www.dot.state.ny.us/progs/safety/sb-94-7a.html
[Edited by john banks - 9/20/2002 11:40:39 AM]
Which toluene is required?
Storage and handling requirements - US but useful: http://www.dot.state.ny.us/progs/safety/sb-94-7a.html
[Edited by john banks - 9/20/2002 11:40:39 AM]
20 September 2002, 11:43 AM
#38
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John
You can actually order the duty free tol' which doesn't have the 54.68/ltr duty imposed.
However, you need to be licensed to store solvents, I would suggest that you get friendly with your local spray shop. Unless of course your licensed yourself?
Anyway thought you'd like the price, it also comes in easy size 20 ltr polys.
Hope this helps
You can actually order the duty free tol' which doesn't have the 54.68/ltr duty imposed.
However, you need to be licensed to store solvents, I would suggest that you get friendly with your local spray shop. Unless of course your licensed yourself?
Anyway thought you'd like the price, it also comes in easy size 20 ltr polys.
Hope this helps
20 September 2002, 04:01 PM
#43
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It was a joke Theo, you've not bought something off them? Sounded like a typical American product website to me 
Brash and promising that if you buy the moon you get Mars free 
Brash and promising that if you buy the moon you get Mars free
20 September 2002, 08:53 PM
#45
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John, I'm a sucker for these things 
... so yeah, I bought the book. It may very well suck goats, but there you go.
Seriously though, I think the mixture of British engineering (aka Scoobynet) and US brash may be a fruitful one in the end. Just trying to learn stuff, and the US gang don't stop for anything. They'll strap on a camel in the quest for 1/4 mile times, and then report if it worked or not. (Camel being 500 BHP on their dyno ) I'm not an I-Club fan ( ), but I'll read it with intrest.
You can read my copy after I'm done
... so yeah, I bought the book. It may very well suck goats, but there you go.Seriously though, I think the mixture of British engineering (aka Scoobynet) and US brash may be a fruitful one in the end. Just trying to learn stuff, and the US gang don't stop for anything. They'll strap on a camel in the quest for 1/4 mile times, and then report if it worked or not. (Camel being 500 BHP on their dyno
) I'm not an I-Club fan ( ), but I'll read it with intrest.You can read my copy after I'm done
23 September 2002, 03:59 PM
#46
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Hmm I have just bought 5 ltrs of goldseal cellulose virgin thinners, thought I better phone their technical side just to see what else was in it. He said it was 60% Toluene and 40% was mostly alcohol, he recomended I didnt put it in an engine as he didnt know what temperature it was running at and whether it would pre or post ignite! This, according to my local body shop is one of the best thinners around, I have the five litres sat on the side, angel on one shoulder and devil on the other shoulder, what shall I do?
23 September 2002, 04:19 PM
#49
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If you're going with thinners, go with Toluene/xylene mix.
If you put in 4ltrs Tol'/Tol'Xylene mix, 100cc Iso-propyl (alcohol) and fill tank up to top with either SUL or Optimax you'll have a smooth run. You'll need to change the oil 1000 miles later, and again another 1000miles later (carbon deposits). You should be OK then for 4.5-6k.
Run about 7% volume and you won't have any problems, you can advance your timing a little then, but not too much if you drive it everyday.(pre MY01 and you'll probably manually reset ECU)
I really wouldn't put in too much alcohol, I think your asking for trouble if you put in those thinners you have.
If you put in 4ltrs Tol'/Tol'Xylene mix, 100cc Iso-propyl (alcohol) and fill tank up to top with either SUL or Optimax you'll have a smooth run. You'll need to change the oil 1000 miles later, and again another 1000miles later (carbon deposits). You should be OK then for 4.5-6k.
Run about 7% volume and you won't have any problems, you can advance your timing a little then, but not too much if you drive it everyday.(pre MY01 and you'll probably manually reset ECU)
I really wouldn't put in too much alcohol, I think your asking for trouble if you put in those thinners you have.
23 September 2002, 09:10 PM
#50
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I have found a supplier who will sell me pure Toluene 16.60 +vat for 23 litres! I have a jap import v5 sti type R and it will love it! I think i will be giving the thinners back to the spray shop! Will be picking up the toluene on Friday, I will tell you how it goes next week!!
23 September 2002, 10:02 PM
#51
Erm, just looking at the mixture consequences of using Toluene (spelling?).
If we assume the following formula for working stoich AFR from the hydrocarbon quantities of a hydrocarbon Cn Hm:
AFRstoich = 137.33(n+m/4)/(12n+m)
And toluene is C7 H8 (or C6H5CH3) that gives the stoich AFR as:
137.33(7+8/4)/(12*7+8)= 13.43
Which is a little lower than 14.7 (pump petrol)
If you run 10% toluene, that it would be reasonable to assume that the average stoich AFR is 1% lower at 14.573.
There will also be a change in energy available, even if the calorific value is the same, as you will burn more fuel.
And looking through my notes, I remember what complete mind **** enthalpy is, and writing equilibrium equations, and the concept of dissociation. Still, plenty of time for revision.
Paul
If we assume the following formula for working stoich AFR from the hydrocarbon quantities of a hydrocarbon Cn Hm:
AFRstoich = 137.33(n+m/4)/(12n+m)
And toluene is C7 H8 (or C6H5CH3) that gives the stoich AFR as:
137.33(7+8/4)/(12*7+8)= 13.43
Which is a little lower than 14.7 (pump petrol)
If you run 10% toluene, that it would be reasonable to assume that the average stoich AFR is 1% lower at 14.573.
There will also be a change in energy available, even if the calorific value is the same, as you will burn more fuel.
And looking through my notes, I remember what complete mind **** enthalpy is, and writing equilibrium equations, and the concept of dissociation. Still, plenty of time for revision.
Paul
24 September 2002, 10:05 AM
#53
I dilithium crystals were available from RS, but they showed them as being out of stock.
My order has been placed.
Now just a case of finding some anti-hydrogen, I hear Cern have some...
I wonder how much boost I need to achieve warp?
Paul
My order has been placed.
Now just a case of finding some anti-hydrogen, I hear Cern have some...
I wonder how much boost I need to achieve warp?
Paul
Beam me up Scotty
12 October 2002, 09:37 AM
#55
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TOLUENE DOES NOT WORK!!!!!
I tried a mix of Toluene and Optimax and it did not work!
I tried a 10% and 5% mix. When boosting the car was violently stuttering, like an over boost problem. The fault only wen away when i completely drained the fuel tank and filled up with normal fuel.
Is it because you cant advance the timing with a standard ECU?
Would a Apexi Power FC be the answer???
I was using Miller oils Toluene....
Whats your thoughts guys?
I tried a mix of Toluene and Optimax and it did not work!
I tried a 10% and 5% mix. When boosting the car was violently stuttering, like an over boost problem. The fault only wen away when i completely drained the fuel tank and filled up with normal fuel.
Is it because you cant advance the timing with a standard ECU?
Would a Apexi Power FC be the answer???
I was using Miller oils Toluene....
Whats your thoughts guys?
12 October 2002, 10:01 PM
#57
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off the subject of toluene for the moment as it seems to have gone a bit pete tong .
Methanol !
can it be bought easily ?
can it be 'mixed' with road fuel, optimax, sul, whatever)
what would happen ?
Is it a good idea ?
Andy
.Methanol !
can it be bought easily ?
can it be 'mixed' with road fuel, optimax, sul, whatever)
what would happen ?
Is it a good idea ?
Andy
13 October 2002, 05:45 PM
#60
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102 OCTANE FUEL
drop me aline or phone as we are stockists of this "swedish" race fuel
alyn - 0191-4103770 / as performance
oh, it comes in 20l cans and costs £2.95/litre
[Edited by stockcar - 10/13/2002 5:47:16 PM]
drop me aline or phone as we are stockists of this "swedish" race fuel
alyn - 0191-4103770 / as performance
oh, it comes in 20l cans and costs £2.95/litre
[Edited by stockcar - 10/13/2002 5:47:16 PM]