WRX not as good as Focus RS
14 August 2002, 05:11 PM
#61
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Jon
The STI 7 does take time to get the most out of. In my experience its easier to put in a fast laptime in a car that's easy to drive fast. The STI is not easy to learn to drive fast. Thanks to the 4K woosh and the front LSD's its a very different car than a standard impreza. Once learned the STI is significantly faster than given credit for.
In short the driver not 'knowing' the car plays a huge factor in the test and any laptimes posted.
My general impressions of my UK STI is that it's a faster car than my MY00 with PPP, but that it took a long time for me to gain the confidence to throw it around like I did my old one and indeed not fall prey(too often) to the <4K dead zone.
Not disagreing your last point at all. In fact my first post on this topic said just that. I think we should concentrate on the plus points and not get bogged down by a single test on a single day carried out under unknown(to us) circumstances. Plus points is that performance car enthusiasts now have another choice and in the end that can only be good for everybody.
The STI 7 does take time to get the most out of. In my experience its easier to put in a fast laptime in a car that's easy to drive fast. The STI is not easy to learn to drive fast. Thanks to the 4K woosh and the front LSD's its a very different car than a standard impreza. Once learned the STI is significantly faster than given credit for.
In short the driver not 'knowing' the car plays a huge factor in the test and any laptimes posted.
My general impressions of my UK STI is that it's a faster car than my MY00 with PPP, but that it took a long time for me to gain the confidence to throw it around like I did my old one and indeed not fall prey(too often) to the <4K dead zone.
Not disagreing your last point at all. In fact my first post on this topic said just that. I think we should concentrate on the plus points and not get bogged down by a single test on a single day carried out under unknown(to us) circumstances. Plus points is that performance car enthusiasts now have another choice and in the end that can only be good for everybody.
14 August 2002, 05:19 PM
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Just read THAT Autocar article.....
Yes, the RS looks good.....for a focus.
Having personally owned 2 focus`s, i can say they handle well... to a point then its just typical fwd problem...UNDERSTEER!
Even with sports seats (recaro`s in the st170 and sparco`s in the RS), i sit too high in the focus, i prefer feeling like i`m in the car rather than on it!
The RS doesn`t have the sexy engine noise of a scooby.
The Focus may have just won a reliability survey, but both of my Focus`s broke, the radiator went on the first one after 3 days, the second one needed a new gearbox..after 2 weeks!!
....and finally... Ford`s biggest problem, the dealerships are the WORST i have experienced, they are unhelpful, rude, don`t bother doing half the things that should be done on a service, can`t find simple problems and are generally crap. My mate ordered an ST170 with all the kit, they never bothered to phone him back, he kept getting told "delivery next month"...every month! then 2 weeks ago they said "due to unforeseen problems, the earliest would be late October" Obviously he had had enough by now and cancelled the order. The car is sat in the dealership showroom NOW!
Rant over!
Yes, the RS looks good.....for a focus.
Having personally owned 2 focus`s, i can say they handle well... to a point then its just typical fwd problem...UNDERSTEER!
Even with sports seats (recaro`s in the st170 and sparco`s in the RS), i sit too high in the focus, i prefer feeling like i`m in the car rather than on it!
The RS doesn`t have the sexy engine noise of a scooby.
The Focus may have just won a reliability survey, but both of my Focus`s broke, the radiator went on the first one after 3 days, the second one needed a new gearbox..after 2 weeks!!
....and finally... Ford`s biggest problem, the dealerships are the WORST i have experienced, they are unhelpful, rude, don`t bother doing half the things that should be done on a service, can`t find simple problems and are generally crap. My mate ordered an ST170 with all the kit, they never bothered to phone him back, he kept getting told "delivery next month"...every month! then 2 weeks ago they said "due to unforeseen problems, the earliest would be late October" Obviously he had had enough by now and cancelled the order. The car is sat in the dealership showroom NOW!
Rant over!
14 August 2002, 05:27 PM
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Neil - I was interested when I went out in Paul from Scoobysports WRX with PPP, decat, KAD brakes and Leda - it was frankly awesome, and I was told that it was better in all respects than the STI - priamrily because of a more usable power band.
As you know, for a car to feel 'real world' fast you need to able to have a decent torque spread right across the powerband, and from what I hear the sti doesn't deliver. However I haven't driven one, so will reserve my judgement until i have done so. I'm impressed with the difference a full decat hs made to the in-gear driveability of my WRX and I was at one point considering the STi so it'll be interesting to drive one.
If the focus can put 80% of its 212bhp (?) down from 2500, I can understand on a track while accelerating from a corner why it could beat the sti if it doesn't wake up until 4k?
As you know, for a car to feel 'real world' fast you need to able to have a decent torque spread right across the powerband, and from what I hear the sti doesn't deliver. However I haven't driven one, so will reserve my judgement until i have done so. I'm impressed with the difference a full decat hs made to the in-gear driveability of my WRX and I was at one point considering the STi so it'll be interesting to drive one.
If the focus can put 80% of its 212bhp (?) down from 2500, I can understand on a track while accelerating from a corner why it could beat the sti if it doesn't wake up until 4k?
14 August 2002, 05:41 PM
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Jon
That'd be the decat on the PPP. Probably gives the same power/torque as the STI at a lower RPM
The KAD brakes(read AP 6 pots) will be better(just) than the Brembo's.
Not tried a 01 WRX with Leda so can't comment.
Mind you, after doing all that to it, its bye bye Warranty.
Jon, try an STI and use the gearbox to keep in the banzai zone and then try and drive it normally. You'll see what I mean regarding getting used to the car.
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 8/14/2002 5:42:22 PM]
That'd be the decat on the PPP. Probably gives the same power/torque as the STI at a lower RPM
The KAD brakes(read AP 6 pots) will be better(just) than the Brembo's.
Not tried a 01 WRX with Leda so can't comment.
Mind you, after doing all that to it, its bye bye Warranty.
Jon, try an STI and use the gearbox to keep in the banzai zone and then try and drive it normally. You'll see what I mean regarding getting used to the car.
[Edited by Neil Smalley - 8/14/2002 5:42:22 PM]
14 August 2002, 05:53 PM
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Neil - yes the warranty issue is the key! I'm getting to drive a Focus RS in Sept and will arrange a test drive of the Sti and report back to the extent my modest driving abilities will allow.
14 August 2002, 07:02 PM
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The Focus RS sounds like an interesting car, its a shame it isn't the focus cosworth being released though...
I am not really convinced that the Focus RS is going to blitz an STi7 around Goodwood, and from the figures comfortably beat cars like the Evo 7 FQ. The RS is already at a significant power disadvantage (especially against the Evo) which is going to be a big problem at a circuit like Goodwood (high speed etc.) As for pulling well from 2500rpm, well that would be good for the road, but if you are using 2500rpm on the track then I would recommend giving up track driving and sticking to something a bit safer like stamp collecting...
Anyway, starting from a power disadvantage, to make up the difference and then be some 2.5 secs quicker, would require more than just a minor handling improvement - and we are comparing it here to two of the fastest cornering saloons about anyway! I reckon it would need super sticky slicks vs. road tyres to get anywhere near that sort of margin! I just don't buy it.
As for picking up a rear wheel, most FWD cars are designed to do this, and absolute stiffness of the suspension is not that relevant, the relative roll stiffness from front to rear is more important. This is a function of distance between the centre of gravity to the roll centre; I don't know what sort of suspension the Focus RS runs, but MacPherson strut / track control arms typically found in a modern hatch does not lend itself well to a high degree of roll stiffness; typically resulting in a very low roll centre, coupled with a high centre of gravity (focus is quite a tall car, coupled with that straight four - you want a nice low c of g flat four mate), plenty of scope for lifting that rear wheel!!!
Not a criticism, this is a good handling trait for a FWD car, but not necessarily related to absolute cornering speed. My advice is, don't believe all you read in the papers, until you've had a go in one. Group booking for a focus RS test drive anyone?
I am not really convinced that the Focus RS is going to blitz an STi7 around Goodwood, and from the figures comfortably beat cars like the Evo 7 FQ. The RS is already at a significant power disadvantage (especially against the Evo) which is going to be a big problem at a circuit like Goodwood (high speed etc.) As for pulling well from 2500rpm, well that would be good for the road, but if you are using 2500rpm on the track then I would recommend giving up track driving and sticking to something a bit safer like stamp collecting...
Anyway, starting from a power disadvantage, to make up the difference and then be some 2.5 secs quicker, would require more than just a minor handling improvement - and we are comparing it here to two of the fastest cornering saloons about anyway! I reckon it would need super sticky slicks vs. road tyres to get anywhere near that sort of margin! I just don't buy it.
As for picking up a rear wheel, most FWD cars are designed to do this, and absolute stiffness of the suspension is not that relevant, the relative roll stiffness from front to rear is more important. This is a function of distance between the centre of gravity to the roll centre; I don't know what sort of suspension the Focus RS runs, but MacPherson strut / track control arms typically found in a modern hatch does not lend itself well to a high degree of roll stiffness; typically resulting in a very low roll centre, coupled with a high centre of gravity (focus is quite a tall car, coupled with that straight four - you want a nice low c of g flat four mate
), plenty of scope for lifting that rear wheel!!!Not a criticism, this is a good handling trait for a FWD car, but not necessarily related to absolute cornering speed. My advice is, don't believe all you read in the papers, until you've had a go in one. Group booking for a focus RS test drive anyone?
14 August 2002, 07:07 PM
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Indeed the RS does sound quite good. Maybe it will be the best handling front-drive car ever. However it is worth noting that Quaife diff or no, no front-wheel drive car can apportion traction upon challenging roads like a 4WD can- none. It just is immpossible. With this in mind too we should understand that the ability to put traction down effects the progressivness of on-limit handling, break-away characteristics, ability to traverse bumpy roads while putting down power and allowing for steering precision. The RS might be faster, but I doubt that it will be as safe a road car as the best 4WD's. Horses for ' '.
14 August 2002, 07:09 PM
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I dont care how good the RS is, I brought my Scoob to move away from the mass-market manufacturers with their super dealers and total lack of customer service.
I have had both Ford and Vauxhalls and I think they should be spending vast amounts of money on improving their customer services, instead of wasting millions on low volume, low profit cars.
I have had both Ford and Vauxhalls and I think they should be spending vast amounts of money on improving their customer services, instead of wasting millions on low volume, low profit cars.
14 August 2002, 07:11 PM
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I think we should wait until the Autocar comes out. Then we'll all see. Oh, and then of course there's the EVO coty later on this year. I think if that gives the same results you can't really argue.
Beef
Beef
14 August 2002, 07:18 PM
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I agree Jeremy. That is a more relevant point than just saying "FWD means understeer". The Focus is the least understeery hatch I've driven (OK the 306GTi6 isn't bad...)
Even an Evo 7 will understeer eventually.
Look at F2 rally cars on tarmac, ultimate cornering grip is right up there and they can give WRCs a hard time.
But the more uneven the surface the more twitchy things will get when you're relying on all your traction through the front wheels.
I never considered the STi 7 would be worried by the Focus RS but a few of you are commenting on it being gutless under 4000rpm so maybe there wouldn't be that much in it in "the real world".
Prodrive really need to get this Performance Pack out to catch up, especially if the Focus is snapping at its heels on the one hand and the Evo 7 RS Sprint is able to kick its face off for only 26 grand (if you could live with one of course
)
One area that can't be disputed is Fords dealerships are not used to dealing in performance cars, or their customers.
Their general lack of knowledge and "the car will sell itself" attitude is lousy. Subaru, and SEAT for that matter have been miles better in my experience.
[Edited by TurboBoost - 8/14/2002 7:21:34 PM]
Even an Evo 7 will understeer eventually.
Look at F2 rally cars on tarmac, ultimate cornering grip is right up there and they can give WRCs a hard time.
But the more uneven the surface the more twitchy things will get when you're relying on all your traction through the front wheels.
I never considered the STi 7 would be worried by the Focus RS but a few of you are commenting on it being gutless under 4000rpm so maybe there wouldn't be that much in it in "the real world".
Prodrive really need to get this Performance Pack out to catch up, especially if the Focus is snapping at its heels on the one hand and the Evo 7 RS Sprint is able to kick its face off for only 26 grand (if you could live with one of course
)One area that can't be disputed is Fords dealerships are not used to dealing in performance cars, or their customers.
Their general lack of knowledge and "the car will sell itself" attitude is lousy. Subaru, and SEAT for that matter have been miles better in my experience.
[Edited by TurboBoost - 8/14/2002 7:21:34 PM]
14 August 2002, 09:23 PM
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It'd be nice to think that Subaru would 'respond' to the 'threat' of the RS, but it'd be a triumph of hope over experience. Their model strategy was to dumb down the old shape to suit it (in WRX format) to a more mature clientele: it's difficult to see the RS being aimed at anything other than the enthusiast. Adoption of the 'bugeye' came straight out of the same mindset IMHO, but it was presumably borne of Japanese culture - you ever seen Manga comics, you'll know what I mean Indeed, presumably the belated fettling of STi for Europe/UK was an attempt to keep enthusiasts in the (official) Subaru camp.
So in one sense (power/torque output), comparing RS with STiUK isn't fair - and in another (they're enthusiasts' cars), it is!!
While I have no doubt the Subaru Dealers knock spots off the Fords, I don't think you can assume Subaru build standard is systematically better than Ford, to whit...
My MY '99. Clutch Judder + hesitation - as per many others
My MY '00. Chucked it back after 13 warranty visits in 12 months!
My STiUK. Has the 'unrepairable' rattle NSR, along with so many other STiUKs, which Subaru seem unable to diagnose and rectify. JD Power - who he???
So why stick with 'em?? It's because I learnt to drive when ALL cars were RWD, and the 4wd approach is just so much nearer to the way I feel comfortable ('cos it's how I learnt) driving. Yes, and badge snobbery.... I'm quite prepared to admit it (and can't afford an M3, before anyone asks
)
Find it difficult to believe 2.5 secs difference per lap at Goodwood, tho'.... though I did find myself making gentle inroads on an STiUK when driving a standard WRX at one of the Prodrive days - and I don't regard myself as a track driver at all.
Phil
Indeed, presumably the belated fettling of STi for Europe/UK was an attempt to keep enthusiasts in the (official) Subaru camp.So in one sense (power/torque output), comparing RS with STiUK isn't fair - and in another (they're enthusiasts' cars), it is!!
While I have no doubt the Subaru Dealers knock spots off the Fords, I don't think you can assume Subaru build standard is systematically better than Ford, to whit...
My MY '99. Clutch Judder + hesitation - as per many others
My MY '00. Chucked it back after 13 warranty visits in 12 months!
My STiUK. Has the 'unrepairable' rattle NSR, along with so many other STiUKs, which Subaru seem unable to diagnose and rectify. JD Power - who he???
So why stick with 'em?? It's because I learnt to drive when ALL cars were RWD, and the 4wd approach is just so much nearer to the way I feel comfortable ('cos it's how I learnt) driving. Yes, and badge snobbery.... I'm quite prepared to admit it (and can't afford an M3, before anyone asks
)Find it difficult to believe 2.5 secs difference per lap at Goodwood, tho'.... though I did find myself making gentle inroads on an STiUK when driving a standard WRX at one of the Prodrive days - and I don't regard myself as a track driver at all.
Phil
14 August 2002, 09:43 PM
#75
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look guys,the proof is in the pudding,wait and drive the bloody thing before you pass judgement.
its not for me,i think the focus is butt ugly no matter how big the wheels are and what colour they paint it,i just can't stand the rear of it.
its not for me,i think the focus is butt ugly no matter how big the wheels are and what colour they paint it,i just can't stand the rear of it.
14 August 2002, 10:13 PM
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Like you say, drive it before you buy. Yes, the Ford is ugly, but so it the Subaru. You buy for the drive, not for the looks (well, I do, anyroad). My dosh will go for the faster, better handling car, assuming the dealers aren't dogs AKA Pugeot...
Colin.
Colin.
14 August 2002, 10:29 PM
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This sounds like a similar post which I made, and got a bit of a jab in the ribs for suggesting a car with FWD may becoming close to anything half decent
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=110901
Like I said in that post. The gap between a scoob and some of the new performance cars is not that big. This was even before I heard about the new Seat Cupra R.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION Leon Cupra R 1.8 20V T 210bhp
PERFORMANCE Maximum speed* mph 147
Acceleration 0-62 mph secs 7.2
FUEL CONSUMPTION
Urban** mpg 22.6
Extra Urban** mpg 42.8
Combined** mpg 32.1
EMISSIONS
CO2 g/km 211
ENGINE
Type 4 cylinders in line – 20 valves
Displacement cc 1781
Bore and stroke mm 81.0 x 86.4
Compression ratio:1 9.5
Maximum power KW 154
Bhp 210 at rpm 5800
Maximum torque Nm 270
at rpm 2100
Fuel supply system Turbo charged multipoint injection with twin intercoolers
Fuel Unleaded
TRANSMISSION
Gearbox 6 speed manual
Boy how times change.
I have a WRX and I'm pleased with it. But for me the choice is not so obvious now. I will be test driving and comparing other cars.
Thats quite a radical thought isn't it.
I wonder if RS or Cupra R owners wave at each other as they pass. ;-)
14 August 2002, 10:30 PM
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My dad read the autocar report before me and ripped the p**s out of me (my99 ppp) for the RS being faster than a scooby (as in report). Had to point out to him that they were comparing an RS with a WRX and not MY scoob (which he thinks is the best car he has ever driven on the road) and he says whats the point in that!! e.g. why not compare the WRX with an RS500 etc, etc, if you have to go back in time to find something better.
14 August 2002, 10:43 PM
#79
Why will the RS not suffer huge depreciation then?
I've seen Mondeo ST220's lose 60% in the first year, why should this be different?
Sure, for the first six-twelve months the demand may outstrip supply but eventually it should drop like the rest, especially if the Cossie is released.
F
PS I quite like the 1.6 Focus but the 1.8 is pants....Oh and they look like taxis/breadvans in black
I've seen Mondeo ST220's lose 60% in the first year, why should this be different?
Sure, for the first six-twelve months the demand may outstrip supply but eventually it should drop like the rest, especially if the Cossie is released.
F
PS I quite like the 1.6 Focus but the 1.8 is pants....Oh and they look like taxis/breadvans in black
15 August 2002, 07:58 AM
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Read the article in full last night. I dont quite think its what you call balanced. Probably went through Ford PR department before they would let them release it.
There are a couple of classic quotes to give you a flavour but cant be bothered to copy them here.
Lets hope its as good as they say it is or it could be Clio 172 all over again - remember prelaunch initial test hype about how that was going to be the greatest car ever oh and then there was the Civic Type R , Clio V6...............etc
Sells lots of magazines
There are a couple of classic quotes to give you a flavour but cant be bothered to copy them here.
Lets hope its as good as they say it is or it could be Clio 172 all over again - remember prelaunch initial test hype about how that was going to be the greatest car ever oh and then there was the Civic Type R , Clio V6...............etc
Sells lots of magazines
15 August 2002, 08:26 AM
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Jon1T,
I beg to differ - cars with a narrow powerband are much better suited to the track than the road IMHO!!! On the track it's easy to keep a car in it's powerband, which in fact, is why most race cars are tuned for ultimate power at the cost of low down drivability.
I've been in a race version Integra Type-R on track and nothing starts happening until 6000rpm (redline at 9000) and it was keeping up with most of the other Scoobs on track (and showing a clean pair of heels to some ). On the road, I would say that it would be very difficult to keep up with the same cars as it can be very difficult to keep it in the tiny powerband all of the time.
Matt
Mostly because RS has 80% of it's torque from 2500 rpm - whereas the STI's narrow power band makes it useless on track.
I've been in a race version Integra Type-R on track and nothing starts happening until 6000rpm (redline at 9000) and it was keeping up with most of the other Scoobs on track (and showing a clean pair of heels to some
). On the road, I would say that it would be very difficult to keep up with the same cars as it can be very difficult to keep it in the tiny powerband all of the time.Matt
15 August 2002, 09:56 AM
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Looks like I better book myself in for test drive ASAP.....
IMHO Ford have not produce many bad RS cars, so i have no doubt that the RS will be something special and I do believe that the first six months production have already been sold to die hard RS fans.
Subaru seem to have lost there way slightly with the latest incarnation of the Impreza even with the new STI since the elusive PPP still seems to be an uncertainty. Hopefully they will sort themselves out ASAP as if the new RS Focus doesn't steal a large slice of there WRX customers, the Cosworth version certainly will grab the remaining STI customers.
I agree with the comments about Ford customer service but you could always save your self a bundle, buy a euro import and them let the specialist tuners service it for you as many Scooby owners already do.
On the up side i still can't see Ford producing a car with the same aural stimulation as the impreza..... But can you imagine if they did
IMHO Ford have not produce many bad RS cars, so i have no doubt that the RS will be something special and I do believe that the first six months production have already been sold to die hard RS fans.
Subaru seem to have lost there way slightly with the latest incarnation of the Impreza even with the new STI since the elusive PPP still seems to be an uncertainty. Hopefully they will sort themselves out ASAP as if the new RS Focus doesn't steal a large slice of there WRX customers, the Cosworth version certainly will grab the remaining STI customers.
I agree with the comments about Ford customer service but you could always save your self a bundle, buy a euro import and them let the specialist tuners service it for you as many Scooby owners already do.
On the up side i still can't see Ford producing a car with the same aural stimulation as the impreza..... But can you imagine if they did
15 August 2002, 10:03 AM
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Diablo
Quote : This is what hits the Ford. Subaru dealers generally will be better. To compare problems with an Escort Gti (WTF????) with a 2002 ford is not realistic however.
Uhmm excuse me but arent both cars ford?? Arent they manufactured at the same place?? Arent all ford dealers complete and utter rubbish?? So i think that the point i made does have something to do with 2002 cars as the problems and customer service associated with Fords past & present is still there!
Although the RS will have gone to a seperate part of the Ford factory after being build on the same production line as the rest of the focus range, if the RS boys have anything like the same attitude towards their jobs as the rest of the Ford employees do then i would think the RS will end up like the rest of the Ford range....unreliable. shame though as its a v nice car.
I was mearly pointing out that problems with my Brand new cars werent solved and are probably still there with the current owner. I've heard of problems with the ST170 with ignition and smoking problems as well as not starting. So it goes to show that Ford haven't changed at all. I would be really annoyed if i'd purchased an RS only to be confronted with a handful of trouble especially as Ford Customer care is just one big bloody joke!!
Also to caompare a Ford Dealership with a Subaru would be pointless! Totally different levels of cutsomer service. I couldn't count the number of times my car was at Ford on two hands (owned the cars for 9 months at a time). Even simple things like test driving cars....my local dealer (subaru) just said yeah heres the keys go take it out and come back in an hour or so. Make sure you have a nice drive to get the feel of the car etc etc, would you get that from Ford? i think not.
Quote : This is what hits the Ford. Subaru dealers generally will be better. To compare problems with an Escort Gti (WTF????) with a 2002 ford is not realistic however.
Uhmm excuse me but arent both cars ford?? Arent they manufactured at the same place?? Arent all ford dealers complete and utter rubbish?? So i think that the point i made does have something to do with 2002 cars as the problems and customer service associated with Fords past & present is still there!
Although the RS will have gone to a seperate part of the Ford factory after being build on the same production line as the rest of the focus range, if the RS boys have anything like the same attitude towards their jobs as the rest of the Ford employees do then i would think the RS will end up like the rest of the Ford range....unreliable. shame though as its a v nice car.
I was mearly pointing out that problems with my Brand new cars werent solved and are probably still there with the current owner. I've heard of problems with the ST170 with ignition and smoking problems as well as not starting. So it goes to show that Ford haven't changed at all. I would be really annoyed if i'd purchased an RS only to be confronted with a handful of trouble especially as Ford Customer care is just one big bloody joke!!
Also to caompare a Ford Dealership with a Subaru would be pointless! Totally different levels of cutsomer service. I couldn't count the number of times my car was at Ford on two hands (owned the cars for 9 months at a time). Even simple things like test driving cars....my local dealer (subaru) just said yeah heres the keys go take it out and come back in an hour or so. Make sure you have a nice drive to get the feel of the car etc etc, would you get that from Ford? i think not.
15 August 2002, 10:04 AM
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"you could always save your self a bundle, buy a euro import"
While the ST170 is available for around a 2 grand saving as an import, I fear Ford may be very protective of the limited edition RS in its route from factory to dealer.
The SEAT Leon Cupra R (also fairly limited numbers) is almost impossible to buy cheaper as an import than it is as a discounted UK car. I think the Focus RS could be similar.
Mind you the STi 'Type UK' Prodrive was available as an import...
While the ST170 is available for around a 2 grand saving as an import, I fear Ford may be very protective of the limited edition RS in its route from factory to dealer.
The SEAT Leon Cupra R (also fairly limited numbers) is almost impossible to buy cheaper as an import than it is as a discounted UK car. I think the Focus RS could be similar.
Mind you the STi 'Type UK' Prodrive was available as an import...
15 August 2002, 11:58 AM
#85
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Beef - YHM!
If the likes of civic type R, Leon, Focus RS (and GTA er...) cause subaru to raise their game (what other 20kish 200bhp sports saloons/hatchbacks were there when the new age was launched?) and by raise their game I mean move away from the 'soft' WRX to the harder edge of the classic scoob (better fuel consumption, more toys and longer service intervals would be an extra bonus!) - then it's only good news for us all. Nothing like a bit of competition!
If the likes of civic type R, Leon, Focus RS (and GTA er...) cause subaru to raise their game (what other 20kish 200bhp sports saloons/hatchbacks were there when the new age was launched?) and by raise their game I mean move away from the 'soft' WRX to the harder edge of the classic scoob (better fuel consumption, more toys and longer service intervals would be an extra bonus!) - then it's only good news for us all. Nothing like a bit of competition!
15 August 2002, 12:18 PM
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Personally I think that when the Focus Cossie comes out it won't just steal sales from the STi (thats a given...), it'll be gunning for the Evo VII/VIII. 300bhp as standard, all the trickery of the RS and much more. Thing is, it'll also be priced at the Evo as well, as in £30k.
Although i think £100 per bhp is fair...
It works too:
Sti 7 : 265bhp, £26,500 (ish)
McLaren F1 : 627bhp, £625,000 (okay so that one's £1000 per bhp)
Evo 7 : 276bhp, £27,500 (ish)
Well, you see the point anyway.
And NO i don't want 50 rebuttles stating how wildly innacurate my values are. It was just a comment with no factual backing....
Beef
Although i think £100 per bhp is fair...
It works too:
Sti 7 : 265bhp, £26,500 (ish)
McLaren F1 : 627bhp, £625,000 (okay so that one's £1000 per bhp)
Evo 7 : 276bhp, £27,500 (ish)
Well, you see the point anyway.
And NO i don't want 50 rebuttles stating how wildly innacurate my values are. It was just a comment with no factual backing....
Beef
