beefola

Quite probably chuckster!
A new level of maturity sweeps across Scoobynet.......
Beef

Markus

Just reading some of the other comments, does make for interesting readign as well.

As with some of you, I'm not blinkered by scoobs, yes, I love em, but I don't really look down my nose at other cars, hell, I'd happily have an Octavia RS on my drive, and I AM being serious.

The market is changing, and thankfully, Ford is finally getting back in on the act. The RS badge has been languishing for too long and hopefully this will bring it back to the forefront. The ST's are ok (I had an ST24, which I did love, and was better build quailty than my scooby!) but there needs to be a harder edged car from Ford, especially as the new WRX has been said to be a bit 'soft'.

As said, there are more performance cars in the sub 20k than before, and that's great for people like us. Was looking at a back issue of EVO last night and there was some stuff on the Leon Cupra R, mmm, nice (does it exist?).

I think I might have a pop along to the local ford dealer, and have a chat about the RS, mainly as it'd be worth having a little play with it, must also get down to the very local skoda dealer as well

chuckster

Pretty unlikely though isn't it? I have to admit I'm suprised to! Where are all the Ford bashers?
C

beefola

Markus, look at the current issue of EVO, they test the Cupra R in it, and rate it above the Civic Type-R, but below the Cooper S (only if space isn't required though - if it is, they recommend the Leon).
Great car, great looks, great price.
Beef

chrisp

Initially what puts me off a Focus RS is that it sounds like it on the limit power wise in standard trim, I am quite sure the trick diffs/suspension will handle 215bhp but what about a modified 250bhp ??? 280 bhp??? 300bhp ???. From what I have read it sounds like there isnt much scope to up the power.

I would have thought the 4wd cossie version (if one appears0 would have a chassis built to handle 300+bhp.

Sounds like a good car if you want to keep it standard and are happy with 215bhp.

Cheers

ChrisP

The Fastest

Markus - you say the Fords are better build quality than the Scoob - why did the clutch pedal fall off a brand new mondeo with 150 mls on it, why did the rear seat belt not work after 500mls (or 1st time of use), why did the door trim fall off after 2000mls?? Now I may have a bad (friday pm) motor here, but we have or know many people that run fords - and they all fall apart !!There are however a few who have had trouble free cars. If a survey was done between ford ans Subaru, the scooby would undoubtedly come off better.

Saying all that - I'd be happy to have a damn good thrash in a Focus RS - then I could reassess my view

ADP

Chief,

use ; and ) rather than ;-) to achieve

get me?

Dave T-S

Re the Focus Cosworth delay, it's quite simple. Ford is strapped right now, and no project gets the go ahead unless it is viable.

The current Focus platform cannot take 4wd. To engineer the floorpan to take 4wd would involve huge investment (to re-engineer the platform you are basically redesigning the car) plus junking the rear control blade suspension for what would effectively be very low production volumes.

The new Focus in '04 or '05 will have 4wd engineered in from the start plus all the other mini MPV etc variants. It cannot happen until then.

Dave T-S

PS - my STi will be 3 years old in '05 - guess what I will be getting then

beefola

Groovy
How about

[Edited by beefola - 8/14/2002 1:16:22 PM]

nigelward

Yes Dave, but will you still own it?

Dave T-S

Nigel
LOL - as I typed it I was expecting someone to very shortly post that

Who knows, who knows

Jon1T

I would have thought the Seat Leon Cupra R would be more interesting given that most Scoob drivers have imported there's for around the 17k mark, which is bang on the Seat's list price.

I also have several good friends at Ford (and my old man's company does a lot of the R&D test rigs at Dunton) the Focus RS handling isn't as good as you think, and they had to make major revisions to it - the car was brilliant on track, but crap on the road.

beefola

Well, i'll trust Chris Harris, Autocar's road test editor. He was like a kid in a candy store with it. And my mate reckons its just as good on the road.

Also, have you all seen the photos in Autocar? He must have been giving it some serious welly to get the shot where the rear wheel is lifting. thats a stiffly sprung car so he must have seriously loaded it to get that shot. Also the sideways shot on the first page of the article must have been done a ridiculous speed. You can always trust Autocar to get good shots.
Beef

sillysi

beefola,

I could easily get a rear wheel to lift on my MKII Golf GTI with standard suspension so I would not read to much into that particular picture.

Si.

beefola

Sillysi, my point is that the RS is REALLY stiffly sprung, so it would take a lot more load to get the front to compress so much that the rear lifts. It would need a lot of speed/erratic driving to do that. Also you'll notice that the car looks really composed even though its lifting, so that shows a lot for the speed its going. Must be very well damped/designed/sprung.

sillysi

beefola,

My Golf was softly sprung and would lift a back wheel with out to much effort, I agree that with a stiffly sprung setup it would be much harder to achieve the wheel lift as I found when I had my suspension upgraded.

Si.

Neil Smalley

Beefola(assuming this this not a wind up )

Sorry to be a doubting thomas. But the EVO 7 FQ 300(30 odd BHP more than the STI, 80Bhp more than RS) is only 1/2 a lap faster than a UK STI. Are you 100% the RS is 2 second a lap faster than an EVO 7? That puts it in the cateram/westie catagory

Yes the RS is a quick car, BUT I do doubt the 2.5 seconds a lap quicker if the test was done fairly(on the same day, with the same driver trying as hard as he could in each car).



[Edited by Neil Smalley - 8/14/2002 3:11:38 PM]

logiclee

Jon1T

They must have taken a standard Focus and undeveloped it for the RS to handle crap on the road.

I would say the Focus Zetec is the finest balanced hatchback available. I had a 2.0litre Zetec before the Scoob and I was slightly dissapointed at first with the Scoobs handling balance. The Focus is pin sharp, totaly balanced and the steering wheel is alive. Still not driven anything so sorted as standard below £20k.
I still like driving the Focus hire cars we have at work.

The German standards organisation TUV carried out an extensive survey with over 29 million reports. For cars between 1 and 3 year old the most reliable car in Germany (The land of BMW, Merc, Audi, etc.) is the Ford Focus.
Just need to sort out the dodgy dealers.

Lee

beefola

I got the info from a mate that was at the test in person, so i beleive him. I too doubted it, but he assures me that the results were true. I think the results are going to be in Autocar in the next couple of weeks.
Beef

Neil Smalley

Beef

Not calling you a liar mate. Figures like that make me doubt the validity of the test. I.e if the test was valid the Focus RS would be as fast as a Westfield megabusa around a track. What was the circuit?

Cynic mode on
Ford have spent a lot of time, money and effort on the RS. Maybe, just maybe they put certain conditions on allowing mags to review the car early. E.g they let the RS development driver, drive the RS and a someone who has never driven the STI drive that.

It's also not unknown for press cars to be tweeked in order to get a good set of figures. The Skoda Octavia RS for example(auto car still have'nt upgraded their stats from the iffy test that was done first)

No slight on autocar, but I trust EVO's view more.
Cynic mode off

NDT

so who developed the RS for Ford?

Jon1T

Neil - Focus RS DID beat and STi around Goodwood at the Autocar 'Drivers car of the Year' on Monday - By 3 seconds- it's official. Mostly because RS has 80% of it's torque from 2500 rpm - whereas the STI's narrow power band makes it useless on track.

beefola - your source will know that the RS was develpoed primarily on the Nurburgring and there were changes to the suspension set up after this to make it more 'driver friendly' -mainly the stiffer springs and sachs dampers.

My source was also in belgium for the Autocar test last week- is it the same person??

NDT

Beefola - who does your friend work for?
Is he at Ford?

Neil Smalley

Jon/beef

I did read that article, but was'nt too sure of the details. Where was the Evo 7,Civic type R for example?

I do have this opinion of Autocar being the motoring equivalent of the daily mirror though. So i'm still sceptical. What is fact is that the <4K lack of power for the STI is a real hinderance if you don't know how to best use the gearing(I.e how to drive the car).

I've seen to many inconistancies with their road tests to really trust what they say and to trust they have performed tests in the most objective way.

As I said, not doubting the RS is a fast or good car. If I were looking to buy an hot hatch/WRX type car I would think long and hard about it.


[Edited by Neil Smalley - 8/14/2002 4:14:25 PM]

beefola

Jon, it could be. Mail me the name of your bloke and i'll confirm or deny...

As for where he works, i can't say.

The handling day was at Goodwood, and it will be in Autocar in a couple of weeks. I don't think Autocar are biased enough to rig a test, AFAIK it was the same driver (non-ford employee) that drove both cars, and this was repeated with different drivers, yielding similar results.
I think its just a damn quick car. Thats quick as in fast and hadling well.
Beef

Neil Smalley

I'll have a browse when it comes out. Be interesting to see where other cars come, esp rear wheel drive nutter cars like the westie/atom and Cateram.

beefola

Jon and Beef against the world......

Jon1T

Neil - as beef says this was an independent test and you can't dismiss the result by saying the scoob wasn't being driven rightly.

I think we should celebrate the fact that there are so many 200bhp (ish) cars around now for under £20k. The cheaper and better cars get the better choice for us - after all the consumer is king, and I think Subaru has rested on its laurels for a bit too long - they need to raise their game to stay ahead of the pack (where they rightfully belong).

beefola

Agreed.
I think the Leon CUpra R has definately been overlooked. 210bhp, FWD, 3k cheaper than the RS, but no where near as good handling. The choice is ours!
Beef
P.S. So then Jon, who's your blokey?