RS Owners Club.
05 November 1999, 12:53 AM
#181
Dear Craig,
Ooooh you bitch - nearly 11 years old, 118,000 miles and still going strong. Not that there's alot left on it that hasn't been changed (bodywork accepted) in that time! Mind you, the latest engine has only done 5000 miles....(with 37psi), so not too bad so far. Obviously I will let you all know when the next thing goes POP (probably gearbox!), so that you can have a good laugh!
Dear Firefox,
By Cosworth I'm referring to the original three-door, not the company - sorry I didn't make this clear. And in the early days the rules were VERY strict on modifications, with very few being allowed, which is why the cars had to be built to achieve the best with the regulations. This meant that we got the Cosworth as a road car, just so Ford could win at racing...
The RS500 was a limited homologation speacial of the original homologation car (a special, special car!), taken things the next step further in the re-vamped rules. (see above (somewhere!) for differences...)
LOL
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
Ooooh you bitch - nearly 11 years old, 118,000 miles and still going strong. Not that there's alot left on it that hasn't been changed (bodywork accepted) in that time! Mind you, the latest engine has only done 5000 miles....(with 37psi), so not too bad so far. Obviously I will let you all know when the next thing goes POP (probably gearbox!), so that you can have a good laugh!
Dear Firefox,
By Cosworth I'm referring to the original three-door, not the company - sorry I didn't make this clear. And in the early days the rules were VERY strict on modifications, with very few being allowed, which is why the cars had to be built to achieve the best with the regulations. This meant that we got the Cosworth as a road car, just so Ford could win at racing...
The RS500 was a limited homologation speacial of the original homologation car (a special, special car!), taken things the next step further in the re-vamped rules. (see above (somewhere!) for differences...)
LOL
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 01:23 AM
#182
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Bloody hell!
All I wanted to know was how to post on the RS BBS!!!!!
Is this a record thread?
Mike.
Leave my flippin' ********* out of it! Just you wait, you'll get your come-uppance!
Mark (R19KET) and I reckon with a bit of practice his car will be capable of sub 13's quite easily, and all with 'just' 320bhp. I don't care what you say, but 0.3 secs advantage with 100 extra horses doesn't look THAT impressive.
You may get the Cossie speed record (good luck) but at the moment you're just not really backing up these wonderful tales of power and speed with anything other than broken diffs!
As has been said before, the ONLY real fair comparison test would be to use cars that have no, or equal modifications.
You know as well as I do that a Scooby would win EVERY time and twice on a Sunday (at Santa Pod
).
The only conclusion anyone can draw from that is that an Impreza is a better and faster car than a Cossie, period.
'Nuff said.
Stef.
All I wanted to know was how to post on the RS BBS!!!!!
Is this a record thread?Mike.
Leave my flippin' ********* out of it! Just you wait, you'll get your come-uppance!
Mark (R19KET) and I reckon with a bit of practice his car will be capable of sub 13's quite easily, and all with 'just' 320bhp. I don't care what you say, but 0.3 secs advantage with 100 extra horses doesn't look THAT impressive.
You may get the Cossie speed record (good luck) but at the moment you're just not really backing up these wonderful tales of power and speed with anything other than broken diffs!
As has been said before, the ONLY real fair comparison test would be to use cars that have no, or equal modifications.
You know as well as I do that a Scooby would win EVERY time and twice on a Sunday (at Santa Pod
).The only conclusion anyone can draw from that is that an Impreza is a better and faster car than a Cossie, period.
'Nuff said.
Stef.
05 November 1999, 09:10 AM
#184
Dear Firefox,
When I say the head gasket will let go before everything else, what I mean is that the headgasket is the limiting factor and on a standard cossie engine (running 2 bar of boost or more) needs replacing every 8-12000 miles (depending on the use of the boost), as after that time the pressure "lifts" the head and causes the gasket to leak (the ONLY cure is to long stud the engine and fit a tri-metallic head gasket). However, nothing on the cossie engine "breaks" because of the power, as it was all engineered to go Grp A racing (where the cars could be stripped down after every race anyway, so getting in excess of 10,000 miles out of a head-gasket wasn't really an issue!).
The reason why the Cossie was detuned (Cosworth originally signed the engine off at 250bhp!) was because Ford shat a brick and said "You can't give that to the general public!" (Don't forget a 911 was only 232bhp in those days!), thinking that the insurance companies would burst a blood vessel (they got that bit right!) and the GP would all kill themselves and give Ford a bad name. So they "told" Cosworth to detune it 180bhp! Cosworth "told" Ford that that would make the car drive like a pig and the lowest they could get it to would be 200 bhp to still be able to meet all the design perameters. The Cossie was born!
However, in Grp A racing there were loads of rules (just like in the current BTCC, but more strict), which meant that the race-cars had to have the same "bits" on as the road cars (same turbo, intercooler, fuel rail, block, head design, suspension pick-up points, aerodynamic aids) - everything had to be the same as the road car of which a minimum of 5000 units had to be built to allow the car to be homologated for racing.
This meant that the Cossie could be tuned (as standard, straight out of the crate) to 360bhp using just grey injectors and the EM002 chip (the proper motorsport one). This was more than sufficient to beat the M3s and Rover Vitesses of the era. The motor racing body then decided that you could make a limited edition run of 10% (500) cars that could have even more mods. Hence the M3 Evos (old shape) were born and these kicked the Cossies butt (briefly!). Ford then responded with the RS500 (500 cars - good name eh?). This had relocated suspension points, better aerodynamic aids, eight injector fuel rail, huge intercooler, huge turbo, strengthened block etc. etc. Within a few months the top teams were getting a "reliable" 550 bhp out of the cars and NOTHING could touch them. The races became boring, as no other manufacturer could produce anything to get even remotely near it. It was only in the long duration races that the M3s (with better fuel consumption and kinder handling trates to all the consumables) could eat into the the Cossies domination. However, it was this domination that saw to the demise of the Cossie. In 1989 the rules were changed (eliminating forced induction) and overnight the Cossies were ruled out from competing. However, Ford had created a legend and managed to sell over 30,000 Sapphires (2wd and 4x4) off the back of the original three-door, as EVERYONE (including the thieves!) knew that it was the best value for money super-car, with NO rivals (at the time). Just like the Subaru is today.....
Here endeth todays Cossie history lesson!
Dear Stef,
Should be going to Santa Pod this Sunday to experiment with the new diff (to make sure it doesn't break and embarrass me in front of you lot again, so I am ready for the 21st!)
Dear Robski,
I almost prefer you without your sense of humour!
LOL
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
When I say the head gasket will let go before everything else, what I mean is that the headgasket is the limiting factor and on a standard cossie engine (running 2 bar of boost or more) needs replacing every 8-12000 miles (depending on the use of the boost), as after that time the pressure "lifts" the head and causes the gasket to leak (the ONLY cure is to long stud the engine and fit a tri-metallic head gasket). However, nothing on the cossie engine "breaks" because of the power, as it was all engineered to go Grp A racing (where the cars could be stripped down after every race anyway, so getting in excess of 10,000 miles out of a head-gasket wasn't really an issue!).
The reason why the Cossie was detuned (Cosworth originally signed the engine off at 250bhp!) was because Ford shat a brick and said "You can't give that to the general public!" (Don't forget a 911 was only 232bhp in those days!), thinking that the insurance companies would burst a blood vessel (they got that bit right!) and the GP would all kill themselves and give Ford a bad name. So they "told" Cosworth to detune it 180bhp! Cosworth "told" Ford that that would make the car drive like a pig and the lowest they could get it to would be 200 bhp to still be able to meet all the design perameters. The Cossie was born!
However, in Grp A racing there were loads of rules (just like in the current BTCC, but more strict), which meant that the race-cars had to have the same "bits" on as the road cars (same turbo, intercooler, fuel rail, block, head design, suspension pick-up points, aerodynamic aids) - everything had to be the same as the road car of which a minimum of 5000 units had to be built to allow the car to be homologated for racing.
This meant that the Cossie could be tuned (as standard, straight out of the crate) to 360bhp using just grey injectors and the EM002 chip (the proper motorsport one). This was more than sufficient to beat the M3s and Rover Vitesses of the era. The motor racing body then decided that you could make a limited edition run of 10% (500) cars that could have even more mods. Hence the M3 Evos (old shape) were born and these kicked the Cossies butt (briefly!). Ford then responded with the RS500 (500 cars - good name eh?). This had relocated suspension points, better aerodynamic aids, eight injector fuel rail, huge intercooler, huge turbo, strengthened block etc. etc. Within a few months the top teams were getting a "reliable" 550 bhp out of the cars and NOTHING could touch them. The races became boring, as no other manufacturer could produce anything to get even remotely near it. It was only in the long duration races that the M3s (with better fuel consumption and kinder handling trates to all the consumables) could eat into the the Cossies domination. However, it was this domination that saw to the demise of the Cossie. In 1989 the rules were changed (eliminating forced induction) and overnight the Cossies were ruled out from competing. However, Ford had created a legend and managed to sell over 30,000 Sapphires (2wd and 4x4) off the back of the original three-door, as EVERYONE (including the thieves!) knew that it was the best value for money super-car, with NO rivals (at the time). Just like the Subaru is today.....
Here endeth todays Cossie history lesson!
Dear Stef,
Should be going to Santa Pod this Sunday to experiment with the new diff (to make sure it doesn't break and embarrass me in front of you lot again, so I am ready for the 21st!)
Dear Robski,
I almost prefer you without your sense of humour!
LOL
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 09:41 AM
#185
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Mike,
Out of interest, as the engine's so strong...
When the Cossies first came out, BBR, GGR et al had all these wonderful (bull****?) upgrades.
270, 330, 400, 500bhp upgrades.
Up to 400ish was fairly cheap if I remember - until things started going bang, regularly. Then the price increased a huge amount.
I don't believe if you wind the boost up on a std Cossie, change the head gasket and injectors, you'll get a reliable 400+ hp.
Oh - when I say reliable, I mean as in Scooby, not Cossie!!
And another thing out of interest:
How much does your Cossie owe you? Bearing in mind you must have spent a huge amount on the suspension if it can keep up with a Scoob!!!
Out of interest, as the engine's so strong...
When the Cossies first came out, BBR, GGR et al had all these wonderful (bull****?) upgrades.
270, 330, 400, 500bhp upgrades.
Up to 400ish was fairly cheap if I remember - until things started going bang, regularly. Then the price increased a huge amount.
I don't believe if you wind the boost up on a std Cossie, change the head gasket and injectors, you'll get a reliable 400+ hp.
Oh - when I say reliable, I mean as in Scooby, not Cossie!!
And another thing out of interest:
How much does your Cossie owe you? Bearing in mind you must have spent a huge amount on the suspension if it can keep up with a Scoob!!!
05 November 1999, 10:35 AM
#186
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Woah this is getting huge. I haven't been able to check the BBS for a couple days so I thought I add my thoughts to the debate. Back to the 4WD versus 2WD. Mike if 2WD is soooo superior why did the Audi quattro get banned from the BTCC? It can't of been 'cos they were beating everything sight can it! The following year with two wheel drive the Audi's fared a lot worse with 2WD. Hmmmmmm What'cha got to say about that then?
Luke
The following year with two wheel drive the Audi's fared a lot worse with 2WD. Hmmmmmm What'cha got to say about that then?Luke
05 November 1999, 10:55 AM
#187
Dear Craig,
It is in the programming that caused the famous failures. In those days it was a completely black art, with everyone trying to claim as being "the best" (it was afterall, a huge market) and they all wanted a slice of the cake. However, if you read my little posting, 360bhp is the absolute limit of the standard engine (and you are then pushing EVERYTHING to the limits), above that you need to start changing (uprating) things (turbo, intercooler, MAP sensors etc etc). As a general rule it goes like this:
Standard 2wd engine: 204 bhp.
1. Chip and -31 actuator upgrade (keeping standard injectors, turbo and MAP sensor)& 16psi = 270bhp.
Add 4x4 intercooler for an additional 10bhp.
2. Chip, -31 actuator, 803 injectors (greens), 3 bar MAP sensor (keeping standard turbo)& 23 psi = 320bhp.
Add 4x4 intercooler for an additional 10bhp
Add Grp A turbo for an additional 20bhp (can run another 5-6psi for a total of 350 bhp.
3. All the above plus RS500 intercooler, water injection, hybrid T35 turbo (0.48 a/r) & 34 psi = 385 bhp (My old engine).
4. ANYTHING above this requires internal work, so can't really be called the standard engine anymore.....
Hope this helps clarify things.
With regard to the suspension, it has cost me in excess of £2k (suspension only) for everything that has been done, so yes it DOES handle!
Dear Weaver,
I NEVER said 2wd is superior, I said 4wd was for GIRLS! Anyway, the BTCC field's fwd cars (even worse than 4wd!), BMW had the same problem as Audi, and were effectively pushed out with their "proper" rwd cars!
Best regards
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
It is in the programming that caused the famous failures. In those days it was a completely black art, with everyone trying to claim as being "the best" (it was afterall, a huge market) and they all wanted a slice of the cake. However, if you read my little posting, 360bhp is the absolute limit of the standard engine (and you are then pushing EVERYTHING to the limits), above that you need to start changing (uprating) things (turbo, intercooler, MAP sensors etc etc). As a general rule it goes like this:
Standard 2wd engine: 204 bhp.
1. Chip and -31 actuator upgrade (keeping standard injectors, turbo and MAP sensor)& 16psi = 270bhp.
Add 4x4 intercooler for an additional 10bhp.
2. Chip, -31 actuator, 803 injectors (greens), 3 bar MAP sensor (keeping standard turbo)& 23 psi = 320bhp.
Add 4x4 intercooler for an additional 10bhp
Add Grp A turbo for an additional 20bhp (can run another 5-6psi for a total of 350 bhp.
3. All the above plus RS500 intercooler, water injection, hybrid T35 turbo (0.48 a/r) & 34 psi = 385 bhp (My old engine).
4. ANYTHING above this requires internal work, so can't really be called the standard engine anymore.....
Hope this helps clarify things.
With regard to the suspension, it has cost me in excess of £2k (suspension only) for everything that has been done, so yes it DOES handle!
Dear Weaver,
I NEVER said 2wd is superior, I said 4wd was for GIRLS! Anyway, the BTCC field's fwd cars (even worse than 4wd!), BMW had the same problem as Audi, and were effectively pushed out with their "proper" rwd cars!
Best regards
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 11:00 AM
#188
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Hi guys..
I agree with Craig..
I have never owned a ford... but have known several people who have.
Its incredible the number of Cossies that have blown over the years.. probably more fords than R5's.. just
Yes getting 300'ish bhp is simple... just a chip, exhaust, etc.. usual stuff...
For mid 400bhp.. you are looking at 1000+ quid.. People still advertise that price...
People like BBR, GGR, Well Lane, Seven Valley, MAD.. all blew cars.... *I'm waiting for Mike to say - if you take it to a reputable tuner you'll be ok* lol
If you are going on about WRC's...Lets compare the Escort WRC to the Impreza WRC then.. I think you might loose....
Mike ...so you are saying the "standard" cossie engine is Grp A, except for just the gaskets ? PMSL... erm.. I dont think so.... lol
This belief is where all the crap about Grp A products came from..."oh look at me.. I'm running a Grp A exhaust"... majority of these so-called Grp A products have never been never a race car... Some adverts put the letter A in quotes... crafty advertising
Anyways... Back to this thread...
Mike... you say change the injectors and the chip... 2 parts and you can get 360 ?
Well... if you change the chip and turbo on a scoob..(2 parts) you can get 360. (the injectors are ok - depends on MY)
Cosworth has produced many different engines... most people think cosworth only produced one ford engine..wrong... the RS500 had a different engine (strengthened block) *I could be wrong* (I suppose you could relate that to the 22B - similar to the closed deck improvement)
Mike.. the reason Ford supplied so many cosworth units.. was to replace the nicked/blown original ones... Thats why the insurance was so high... lol
I am impressed with how much time, commitment and effort you put into the Fords... its very admirable...
I agree in their time..they were the best car (for their money)... but their time is over.... People will keep trying to modify them.. to beat current cars.. and keep thowing 1000's at them...
My belief is that all cars are the same when you come to modifying them... You are removing their weaknesses... You use long bolts on yours.... we use new rods.... you fit new gaskets...we fit a new turbo.. When it gets to this sort of stage.. they are equal.... They both use the same materials, manufacturers, techniques... It all comes down to money.. how much you wish to throw at it...
Plain and simple...
J.
I agree with Craig..
I have never owned a ford... but have known several people who have.
Its incredible the number of Cossies that have blown over the years.. probably more fords than R5's.. just
Yes getting 300'ish bhp is simple... just a chip, exhaust, etc.. usual stuff...
For mid 400bhp.. you are looking at 1000+ quid.. People still advertise that price...
People like BBR, GGR, Well Lane, Seven Valley, MAD.. all blew cars.... *I'm waiting for Mike to say - if you take it to a reputable tuner you'll be ok* lol
If you are going on about WRC's...Lets compare the Escort WRC to the Impreza WRC then.. I think you might loose....
Mike ...so you are saying the "standard" cossie engine is Grp A, except for just the gaskets ? PMSL... erm.. I dont think so.... lol
This belief is where all the crap about Grp A products came from..."oh look at me.. I'm running a Grp A exhaust"... majority of these so-called Grp A products have never been never a race car... Some adverts put the letter A in quotes... crafty advertising
Anyways... Back to this thread...
Mike... you say change the injectors and the chip... 2 parts and you can get 360 ?
Well... if you change the chip and turbo on a scoob..(2 parts) you can get 360. (the injectors are ok - depends on MY)
Cosworth has produced many different engines... most people think cosworth only produced one ford engine..wrong... the RS500 had a different engine (strengthened block) *I could be wrong* (I suppose you could relate that to the 22B - similar to the closed deck improvement)
Mike.. the reason Ford supplied so many cosworth units.. was to replace the nicked/blown original ones... Thats why the insurance was so high... lol
I am impressed with how much time, commitment and effort you put into the Fords... its very admirable...
I agree in their time..they were the best car (for their money)... but their time is over.... People will keep trying to modify them.. to beat current cars.. and keep thowing 1000's at them...
My belief is that all cars are the same when you come to modifying them... You are removing their weaknesses... You use long bolts on yours.... we use new rods.... you fit new gaskets...we fit a new turbo.. When it gets to this sort of stage.. they are equal.... They both use the same materials, manufacturers, techniques... It all comes down to money.. how much you wish to throw at it...
Plain and simple...
J.
05 November 1999, 11:37 AM
#189
Dear Firefox,
Can you read?! The reason why the cosworth exists is solely to go BTCC racing and to WIN. Everything was designed around this, engine, body - EVERYTHING, so yes it is ALL strong. Even the gaskets, its just that in a race-car they don't have to last 10,000+ miles, but in a road car it helps! So in answer to you question - yes!
You are now showing your age, as you obviously don't understand the concept of homologation..... All I am trying to explain to you is that the car was originally built to go racing, so the engineering is OTT. The Scooby was not, so has NOT got the same mechanical strengths. The chip that I am referring to is the EM002 Motorsport chip that was used by the BTCC teams to achieve 360bhp using the standard engine items and grey injectors. This would not pass any emission tests (5mpg!) and was not available to the GP....
Best regards
Mike
Can you read?!
The reason why the cosworth exists is solely to go BTCC racing and to WIN. Everything was designed around this, engine, body - EVERYTHING, so yes it is ALL strong. Even the gaskets, its just that in a race-car they don't have to last 10,000+ miles, but in a road car it helps! So in answer to you question - yes!You are now showing your age, as you obviously don't understand the concept of homologation....
. All I am trying to explain to you is that the car was originally built to go racing, so the engineering is OTT. The Scooby was not, so has NOT got the same mechanical strengths. The chip that I am referring to is the EM002 Motorsport chip that was used by the BTCC teams to achieve 360bhp using the standard engine items and grey injectors. This would not pass any emission tests (5mpg!) and was not available to the GP....Best regards
Mike
05 November 1999, 12:58 PM
#190
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Hi Mike..
I agree....for some of it...
Like you said.. the weak point of the engine is the rods and bolts.... and on the Cosworth Engine its the gasket..
Every standard engine has a weakness... The sti gasket can take an extra bar easily (being made of metal and self sealing) - Unlike the Cosworth one.
No company is going to spend a fortune on engine parts and then have it detuned... they will fit parts relevant for its purpose.. Surely Ford/Cosworth would have fitted a suitbale gasket that could take pressure then ? why didnt they fit a suitable breather system as standard? why did they reduce the size of the turbo and limit the tunning possibilities then ?
Oh sooooo many questions... lol
I thought Cosworth developed different heads for the GRP A/WRC racers ?
J.
ps - I want this thread to reach 200... lol
I agree....for some of it...
Like you said.. the weak point of the engine is the rods and bolts.... and on the Cosworth Engine its the gasket..
Every standard engine has a weakness... The sti gasket can take an extra bar easily (being made of metal and self sealing) - Unlike the Cosworth one.
No company is going to spend a fortune on engine parts and then have it detuned... they will fit parts relevant for its purpose.. Surely Ford/Cosworth would have fitted a suitbale gasket that could take pressure then ? why didnt they fit a suitable breather system as standard? why did they reduce the size of the turbo and limit the tunning possibilities then ?
Oh sooooo many questions... lol
I thought Cosworth developed different heads for the GRP A/WRC racers ?
J.
ps - I want this thread to reach 200... lol
05 November 1999, 01:27 PM
#191
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Still just about keeping up with this thread, but completely lost in techno land sometimes 
However two things spring to mind whilst enjoying the opinions and knowledge being shared here:
1. It's horses for courses, and we will all defend our chosen make and model to the hilt, after all it's what we spend our money on.
2. Mike R, Firefox and Craig H (met you at Scoobysport having your downpipe fitted) don't any of you have day jobs
Yex
[This message has been edited by Yex (edited 05-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Yex (edited 05-11-1999).]
However two things spring to mind whilst enjoying the opinions and knowledge being shared here:
1. It's horses for courses, and we will all defend our chosen make and model to the hilt, after all it's what we spend our money on.
2. Mike R, Firefox and Craig H (met you at Scoobysport having your downpipe fitted) don't any of you have day jobs
Yex
[This message has been edited by Yex (edited 05-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Yex (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 01:45 PM
#192
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Mike,
bit off thread, but where do you and the RS guys with modded cars get your insurance. Just wondered if you are using the same ins coys as us?
Also, whats RS stand for, I can only think it stands for Rusty Sills, but I may be wrong !?
robski
bit off thread, but where do you and the RS guys with modded cars get your insurance. Just wondered if you are using the same ins coys as us?
Also, whats RS stand for, I can only think it stands for Rusty Sills, but I may be wrong !?
robski
05 November 1999, 01:56 PM
#193
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Weaver,
4WD Formula 1 !!!! What a concept!!
Even better, front wheel drive Formula 1!!
That should sort the men from the boys,
(and seperate the tyres from the wheels).
Mike, I'm not techno freak but if you need a Subaru ally, I recently drove a slightly modified 2WD Sapphire Cosworth and, (after fully expecting it to be a pile of plop), thought it was totally brill in a pant exploding oppy lock sort of way. Problem is, every scumbag is after them (even more so than my Scoob), and I found it almost impossible to find a decent non-crashed, trashed, stolen-recovered....(I think you get my drift).
Cheers
blubs
4WD Formula 1 !!!! What a concept!!
Even better, front wheel drive Formula 1!!
That should sort the men from the boys,
(and seperate the tyres from the wheels).
Mike, I'm not techno freak but if you need a Subaru ally, I recently drove a slightly modified 2WD Sapphire Cosworth and, (after fully expecting it to be a pile of plop), thought it was totally brill in a pant exploding oppy lock sort of way. Problem is, every scumbag is after them (even more so than my Scoob), and I found it almost impossible to find a decent non-crashed, trashed, stolen-recovered....(I think you get my drift).
Cheers
blubs
05 November 1999, 01:58 PM
#194
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So what happens when the 'this topic is x lines long 1 2 3 4 5' line collides with 'next newest topic'. We could soon find out.
Stefs innocent enough sounding thread has taken on a life of its own, a bit like the mythical sausage in a students fridge.
A highly irrelevant and entertaining read -Thanks chaps!
A.
P.S. there is very clean, totally original black looking RS500 near me (SW London). Nice to see one that hasn't been maxxed to the hilt - I'm a secret admirer
Stefs innocent enough sounding thread has taken on a life of its own, a bit like the mythical sausage in a students fridge.
A highly irrelevant and entertaining read -Thanks chaps!
A.
P.S. there is very clean, totally original black looking RS500 near me (SW London). Nice to see one that hasn't been maxxed to the hilt - I'm a secret admirer
05 November 1999, 02:15 PM
#196
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Hey Blubs. 4WD Formula 1 cars haven't they already been banned (Mike just where do you work??? ) along with 6 wheel cars and those fans that sucked the cars onto the track. Can anyone remember these? I tell you what though if F1 cars did have 4WD they'd have to be driven by girls, eh Mike? LOL
) along with 6 wheel cars and those fans that sucked the cars onto the track. Can anyone remember these? I tell you what though if F1 cars did have 4WD they'd have to be driven by girls, eh Mike? LOL
05 November 1999, 02:34 PM
#197
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194....
Bloody hell.
Its quite obvious Mike actually works for Subaru UK's warranty department.
THAT's why he's got sooooo much free time to post to this thread....Nothing else to do all day but surf....
Eh Mike? Are you "outed" now?
D.
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 05-11-1999).]
Bloody hell.
Its quite obvious Mike actually works for Subaru UK's warranty department.
THAT's why he's got sooooo much free time to post to this thread....Nothing else to do all day but surf....
Eh Mike? Are you "outed" now?
D.
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 02:48 PM
#198
Dear Robski,
For your info RS stands for "Ridicules Scoobies"!.
With regard to the insurance the RSOC has a proper scheme for its members (Dominion Plan, through Equity Red Star). It is very good providing you are over 25 with full NCB (convictions, apart from drink driving, do not seem to have any effect). They do NOT charge ANY increase for a stage 1 chipped car or for wheels, brake or suspension mods, and rate these as "standard". My car (with all mods declared and listed - several pages!) is £800 fully comp, protected NCB for 30 year old (now I'm letting it slip!) 250 XS. However CAT 1 alarm is mandatory. Also the cover comes with FREE accident and breakdown (but I wouldn't ever let any cowboys put my car on a low loader!) and most importantly FREE track day cover for any RSOC organised event. This cost could be reduced further by taking out a reduced mileage policy, but despite it being used only as a weekend toy, I still manage to knock up between 10-12,000 miles per year!
Dear Blubs,
Glad to see you can appreciate an RS in the same way I can appreciate a Scooby (to me the noise of one on full chat is like music to my ears and makes all other four-pots sound castrated...). I also love the practicality and residual values (but watch what happens when the import quotas a fully lifted.....). Despite the mega security on the car I won't leave it anywhere unattended, and use the company run-abouts.
Keep it sideways.
To everyone,
Just like yo do, I KNOW a standard Impreza will murder a standard Cossie. I also know a standard Countach will murder a standard Cossie. However, to see the look on the guys face when I went on the inside of him and my mate (Escort 350bhp) went round the outside of him as we exited Russel (Snetterton) on the start / finish straight a few years back is something I will always cherish. When we pulled into the pits at the end of the session, we had people coming over to look at the Cossies INSTEAD of the Countach - how often does that happen?!
For me, because they are so subtle (well the Sapphire is anyway!), people don't expect to be mauled by a 11 year old car - the joy is in STILL being able to show people the back of the car (with the legend under the number plate "Considerably faster than you!" - said with Harry Enfield's brummie character accent!). People with more exotic machinery on the track days just DON'T expect it and usually can't deal with it! I suppose I will grow up one day.....
Dear Craig,
I'd like to see a Scooby last 5 miles running that kind of boost (even the Mega Jun thing doesn't go over 2 bar!), let alone 5,000!
Have you ever wondered why NO aftermarket Jap boost gauge goes over 2 bar - because they HAVEN'T developed an engine that doesn't do the same as chocolate left out in the sun yet!.... I know this, because I have desperately been trying to get a GReddy item to go up to 2.5 bar, and no-one does one (so I'll have to stick to the GGR 35psi item).
Best regards
Mike
PS "Work" in Norwich for a industrial service company...
For your info RS stands for "Ridicules Scoobies"!
. With regard to the insurance the RSOC has a proper scheme for its members (Dominion Plan, through Equity Red Star). It is very good providing you are over 25 with full NCB (convictions, apart from drink driving, do not seem to have any effect). They do NOT charge ANY increase for a stage 1 chipped car or for wheels, brake or suspension mods, and rate these as "standard". My car (with all mods declared and listed - several pages!) is £800 fully comp, protected NCB for 30 year old (now I'm letting it slip!) 250 XS. However CAT 1 alarm is mandatory. Also the cover comes with FREE accident and breakdown (but I wouldn't ever let any cowboys put my car on a low loader!) and most importantly FREE track day cover for any RSOC organised event. This cost could be reduced further by taking out a reduced mileage policy, but despite it being used only as a weekend toy, I still manage to knock up between 10-12,000 miles per year!
Dear Blubs,
Glad to see you can appreciate an RS in the same way I can appreciate a Scooby (to me the noise of one on full chat is like music to my ears and makes all other four-pots sound castrated...). I also love the practicality and residual values (but watch what happens when the import quotas a fully lifted.....). Despite the mega security on the car I won't leave it anywhere unattended, and use the company run-abouts.
Keep it sideways.
To everyone,
Just like yo do, I KNOW a standard Impreza will murder a standard Cossie. I also know a standard Countach will murder a standard Cossie. However, to see the look on the guys face when I went on the inside of him and my mate (Escort 350bhp) went round the outside of him as we exited Russel (Snetterton) on the start / finish straight a few years back is something I will always cherish. When we pulled into the pits at the end of the session, we had people coming over to look at the Cossies INSTEAD of the Countach - how often does that happen?!
For me, because they are so subtle (well the Sapphire is anyway!), people don't expect to be mauled by a 11 year old car - the joy is in STILL being able to show people the back of the car (with the legend under the number plate "Considerably faster than you!" - said with Harry Enfield's brummie character accent!). People with more exotic machinery on the track days just DON'T expect it and usually can't deal with it! I suppose I will grow up one day.....
Dear Craig,
I'd like to see a Scooby last 5 miles running that kind of boost (even the Mega Jun thing doesn't go over 2 bar!), let alone 5,000!
Have you ever wondered why NO aftermarket Jap boost gauge goes over 2 bar - because they HAVEN'T developed an engine that doesn't do the same as chocolate left out in the sun yet!.... I know this, because I have desperately been trying to get a GReddy item to go up to 2.5 bar, and no-one does one (so I'll have to stick to the GGR 35psi item).
Best regards
Mike
PS "Work" in Norwich for a industrial service company...
05 November 1999, 03:23 PM
#200
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Mike,
£800 for a car that's had more modification than Pamela Anderson? Excuse me while I quietly weep.....
25yrs old, 4 years no claims, clean license, etc. Wanted to insure a MY96 with prodrive wheels, suspension and interior. Most places were quoting £1200, cheapest I've found so far is around £800 and that was with Bell Direct.
£800 for a car that's had more modification than Pamela Anderson? Excuse me while I quietly weep.....
25yrs old, 4 years no claims, clean license, etc. Wanted to insure a MY96 with prodrive wheels, suspension and interior. Most places were quoting £1200, cheapest I've found so far is around £800 and that was with Bell Direct.
05 November 1999, 03:25 PM
#201
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I'm number 200, na na na na na!
Stef.
PS I now know how to reply to the RS BBS.
PPS And no, I haven't been sitting here waiting for it to reach page 6!!
[This message has been edited by Stephan (edited 05-11-1999).]
Stef.
PS I now know how to reply to the RS BBS.
PPS And no, I haven't been sitting here waiting for it to reach page 6!!
[This message has been edited by Stephan (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 03:49 PM
#203
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Mike.
37 psi!!!!!!???????!!!!!!! Bloody hell!
That's nearly three times more than me!
And you're less than a second quicker over a 1/4 mile. That seems like complete pants if you ask me.
I may be no engineering nut when it comes to mechanicals and the like, but stone me, I really hope no Scoob with less than 350bhp beats your time, 'cos then you're gonna' be up poo creek without a paddle, outboard, or any other means of propulsion (except a broken diff!).
Your car is very fast, and you obviously love it bits (or it falls to bits), but your happiness (and reputation!) will be in tatters if any Scoob beats your 1/4 mile.
It is quite apparent to me that all your arguments only strengthen the case that the Scoob outdoes the Cossie in every department.
As there aren't many (if any) Scoobs with 420bhp, a like for like comparison is not very likely, but as I've said before, Scoobs that have equal mods (or power) as any Cossie would trounce it into the ground.
That is the point I'm making, and no diversions you can make with figures and power talk will change that fact.
At the Pod at least, the Scooby rules.
As far as the tracks concerned, well that's another thread altogether.
I know there are Cossies out there that would trounce me on the track, but I can guarantee you that none of them would have anywhere near 250bhp.
Once again, 'nuff said.
Stef the Cossie Killer..
37 psi!!!!!!???????!!!!!!! Bloody hell!
That's nearly three times more than me!
And you're less than a second quicker over a 1/4 mile. That seems like complete pants if you ask me.
I may be no engineering nut when it comes to mechanicals and the like, but stone me, I really hope no Scoob with less than 350bhp beats your time, 'cos then you're gonna' be up poo creek without a paddle, outboard, or any other means of propulsion (except a broken diff!
).Your car is very fast, and you obviously love it bits (or it falls to bits
), but your happiness (and reputation!) will be in tatters if any Scoob beats your 1/4 mile.It is quite apparent to me that all your arguments only strengthen the case that the Scoob outdoes the Cossie in every department.
As there aren't many (if any) Scoobs with 420bhp, a like for like comparison is not very likely, but as I've said before, Scoobs that have equal mods (or power) as any Cossie would trounce it into the ground.
That is the point I'm making, and no diversions you can make with figures and power talk will change that fact.
At the Pod at least, the Scooby rules.
As far as the tracks concerned, well that's another thread altogether
.I know there are Cossies out there that would trounce me on the track, but I can guarantee you that none of them would have anywhere near 250bhp.
Once again, 'nuff said.
Stef the Cossie Killer.
.
05 November 1999, 03:57 PM
#204
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Hi Mike,
What does that say to you when your race developed engine needs all that boost to produce that piffling! power, when a chocolate Scoob engine can produce 100hp more with less boost? And sound good into the bargain.
What does that say to you when your race developed engine needs all that boost to produce that piffling! power, when a chocolate Scoob engine can produce 100hp more with less boost? And sound good into the bargain.
05 November 1999, 04:01 PM
#205
getting back to you on the esprit.
It was featured in CCC in Dec 97 issue.
The engine dyno session was featured in the May 97 issue. John Eales screwed up the dyno run with ill fitting exhaust manifolds but thats another story.
My 350BHP saphire cossie is for sale but no one seems to want to give me what its worth.
I am asking £8000 but you see loads for £6000, problem is people dont realise how crap most cossies are and mine is in a different league.
I might just keep my saphire cos i ain't giving it away, and use it on track days and the odd weekend only.
It was featured in CCC in Dec 97 issue.
The engine dyno session was featured in the May 97 issue. John Eales screwed up the dyno run with ill fitting exhaust manifolds but thats another story.
My 350BHP saphire cossie is for sale but no one seems to want to give me what its worth.
I am asking £8000 but you see loads for £6000, problem is people dont realise how crap most cossies are and mine is in a different league.
I might just keep my saphire cos i ain't giving it away, and use it on track days and the odd weekend only.
05 November 1999, 04:22 PM
#207
Dear Stef,
My time is only SO poor because I refuse to be a GIRL and have 4wd! The three-door owned by Francis (the one that was devastatingly quick a few weekends ago) has an engine similar to my last one, rated at about 380bhp BUT with 4wd he has done a best of 11.80s @ 115mph. However, he gets through gearboxes like I do diffs! His car used to be rwd, and he struggled to get into the 12s (managed to get a 12.9 in the end) and switch to 4wd IMMEDIATELY so him get into the 11s! That is how much difference it makes!!!!
However, I'll let you drive my car one day, and you will see the difference for yourself(don't forget to bring a change of underwear!).
Dear Craig,
You are now showing your lack of understanding of how turbos work, as the reason why I have to run so much boost is that fact that I am only running a "baby" turbo. However, the bigger the turbo, the less boost you have to run to achieve the same amount of power. However, the bigger the turbo the longer it takes to spin up (lag). Also, my bhp is a engine dyno PROVEN figure, not a guestimate or a figure plucked from thin air. It is also bhp and NOT PS which is a smaller amount (about 0.9 bhp) so the figure again looks artificially high if quoted in PS mine would be about 460!
With regard to trailering it - I could quite easily bring it on a trailer, but firstly that would be taking it too seriously and secondly, I could really imagine you lot NOT giving me a hard time over that!
LOL
Mike
My time is only SO poor because I refuse to be a GIRL and have 4wd! The three-door owned by Francis (the one that was devastatingly quick a few weekends ago) has an engine similar to my last one, rated at about 380bhp BUT with 4wd he has done a best of 11.80s @ 115mph. However, he gets through gearboxes like I do diffs! His car used to be rwd, and he struggled to get into the 12s (managed to get a 12.9 in the end) and switch to 4wd IMMEDIATELY so him get into the 11s! That is how much difference it makes!!!!
However, I'll let you drive my car one day, and you will see the difference for yourself(don't forget to bring a change of underwear!).
Dear Craig,
You are now showing your lack of understanding of how turbos work, as the reason why I have to run so much boost is that fact that I am only running a "baby" turbo. However, the bigger the turbo, the less boost you have to run to achieve the same amount of power. However, the bigger the turbo the longer it takes to spin up (lag). Also, my bhp is a engine dyno PROVEN figure, not a guestimate or a figure plucked from thin air. It is also bhp and NOT PS which is a smaller amount (about 0.9 bhp) so the figure again looks artificially high if quoted in PS mine would be about 460!
With regard to trailering it - I could quite easily bring it on a trailer, but firstly that would be taking it too seriously and secondly, I could really imagine you lot NOT giving me a hard time over that!
LOL
Mike
05 November 1999, 04:35 PM
#208
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Mike.
So if Francis' car is capable of 11.8 secs with 4WD and 380bhp, what would a 380bhp Scoob be capable of?
Methinks it would be even quicker! What else has he done to his car?
R19KET! Find another 60 horses from somewhere!
Stef.
So if Francis' car is capable of 11.8 secs with 4WD and 380bhp, what would a 380bhp Scoob be capable of?
Methinks it would be even quicker! What else has he done to his car?
R19KET! Find another 60 horses from somewhere!
Stef.
05 November 1999, 04:36 PM
#209
Dear Stef,
It is quite accurate for me, as it comes out at just over 372 bhp at the flywheel, which is very close to the 385 bhp figure that I achieved the 12.64s time on. Especially as the figure of 385bhp was recorded totally devoid of any ancilliaries (air box, alternator, power steering pump etc etc), having been done on a proper engine dyno.
I would expect to "lose" around 10 bhp when the engine is put back in the car with all the ancillaries connected and also about 17% through the transmission.
Perhaps the figure is accurate and you have a 308bhp car - what would it give for Mark's R19KET!?
Regards
Mike
It is quite accurate for me, as it comes out at just over 372 bhp at the flywheel, which is very close to the 385 bhp figure that I achieved the 12.64s time on. Especially as the figure of 385bhp was recorded totally devoid of any ancilliaries (air box, alternator, power steering pump etc etc), having been done on a proper engine dyno.
I would expect to "lose" around 10 bhp when the engine is put back in the car with all the ancillaries connected and also about 17% through the transmission.
Perhaps the figure is accurate and you have a 308bhp car - what would it give for Mark's R19KET!?
Regards
Mike
05 November 1999, 04:51 PM
#210
Dear Stef,
Francis' car is TOTALLY home built (they didn't make a 4wd Three-door). The engine is built of the following bits:
4x4 block, pistons (low comp 7.4 c/r), BD14 cams, home porting, grey injectors, water injection, T35 hybrid turbo 0.48 a/r housing, 7° cut back blades, 360° thrust bearing and left hand shaft. He only runs 25psi, as anymore destroys the gearbox INSTANTLY on a full power launches! And he can get 11s runs all day long....(b'stard!) The gearbox is standard, the clutch is just an AP 4 plate paddle with the standard 4x4 cover, and just to pee people off, he does the 11s runs with the baby seat in the back! Traction is aided only by Escort Cossie rims (8x16 instead of 7x15 as per normal), as 4wd doesn't need to be very grippy as the transmission spreads the load! The transmission is bog standard Sapphire Cossie 4x4 (33/67 split front to rear). Again much repsect is deserved (as with Mark), because it is all done to his own design through trial and error....
With regard to my engine please be advised that this boost figure is a peak (overboost) and the head work and cams cause the engine to "consume" everything (and more) that the turbo can give, so by 7000 revs the boost has tailed off to 26psi.
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
Francis' car is TOTALLY home built (they didn't make a 4wd Three-door). The engine is built of the following bits:
4x4 block, pistons (low comp 7.4 c/r), BD14 cams, home porting, grey injectors, water injection, T35 hybrid turbo 0.48 a/r housing, 7° cut back blades, 360° thrust bearing and left hand shaft. He only runs 25psi, as anymore destroys the gearbox INSTANTLY on a full power launches! And he can get 11s runs all day long....(b'stard!) The gearbox is standard, the clutch is just an AP 4 plate paddle with the standard 4x4 cover, and just to pee people off, he does the 11s runs with the baby seat in the back! Traction is aided only by Escort Cossie rims (8x16 instead of 7x15 as per normal), as 4wd doesn't need to be very grippy as the transmission spreads the load! The transmission is bog standard Sapphire Cossie 4x4 (33/67 split front to rear). Again much repsect is deserved (as with Mark), because it is all done to his own design through trial and error....
With regard to my engine please be advised that this boost figure is a peak (overboost) and the head work and cams cause the engine to "consume" everything (and more) that the turbo can give, so by 7000 revs the boost has tailed off to 26psi.
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]