GavinP

Mains noise does have an effect on hi-fi and home cinema but in my experience, it is relative to cost. i.e. cheaper gear seems more effected.

By way of an example, I upgraded a Scan DVD player (£150) for a Pioneer DVD646A (£350) - using a "PC Mains RFI Filter" plug (£20 from PC World) made a big difference to the picture when watching DVDs on the Scan (which was not subjective - several people commented on it without knowing anything had changed). Using the same filter, same house etc on the Pioneer makes little or no difference really.

I guess I am in the "slightly sad" category using a hi-fi rack, £4 per metre speaker cable, £50 interconnects and £70 SCARTs...

I'm sure a lot of things are "snake oil" but some aren't...

Thanks

Gavin

dsmith

I dont think anyone disagrees that noise/interference on the mains will affect the sound - buy a) if your (in general) very expensive power amp doesnt clean the power - wtf is it doing ?

If you want clean power get an on-line UPS - dont **** about with brasso on mains plugs

Deano

MarkO

ProperCharlie, I was the same, but eventually gave up battling to keep my monolithic floor-standing Missions. The main reason for this (apart from the constant grief about them ruining the visual aesthetics of 'her' lounge ) is that I'm so busy these days I never get the chance to listen to music properly.

I simply cannot remember the last time I sat down and stuck some choons on and did nothing but listen to them. Given the choice, these days, I'd rather get out on my MTB or something like that if I've got the spare time. Therefore, there's little point in having our main room compromised with a load of ugly boxes (which, lets face it, hi-fi is) when they don't get used enough to justify themselves.

Hence the reason I sold my Arcam Alpha+ last week on eBay.

I've still got a fairly decent setup which plays music well enough (the Cyrus, my Mission 733s, and a source choice of either my Thomson DTH7000 or my Sony LD player) but they rarely see any 'action'. Whilst I'd have never admitted it a few years ago, the Denon M30 micro-system is now more than adequate for my choonage requirements.

Oh, and TelBoy, I used to totally agree with your PoV, and I'm sure there probably is/was a perceptible difference in all the ludicrous changes you've made (and I made to my kit) such as the spikes, the granite, gold plugs on ludicrously expensive interconnects, etc. But when push comes to shove, it's a law of diminishing returns which is just self-fulfilling. My amp cost me £800, but to get a perceptible difference with an upgrade I'd probably have to spend 10x that, and the difference would be tiny....

[Edited by MarkO - 7/1/2003 10:02:32 AM]

TelBoy

Indeed Neil. But try convincing any yank that Monster Cable isn't the best hi-fi product on the market and you'll be doing a better job than i ever have done!

Interconnects really are personal preference. Bell wire can make a system sound very "stark", and so makes a bigger initial impression that a purpose built item, hence the reason many people will prefer it, in the short term at least. Living with that "in your face" sort of sound becomes tiring though, imo. Finding the right balance between sit up and take notice, and lie back and relax, is the tricky part. We're rarely in the same listening mood two times in a row.

By the way, use a Bosch, at -18 degrees.

[Edited by TelBoy - 7/1/2003 11:10:39 AM]

zoog

Surge protectors and mains conditioners deaden the sound from some amps especially valve amps.



[Edited by zoog - 7/3/2003 7:37:13 AM]

Many Humbug Returns

Ressurection.

EvilBevel

Anyone tried to fit a dumpvalve on the bass reflex ports ?

Can imagine it already... "THUD - psshhh - THUD - psshhh"

Enhances the hi-hats, honestly...

TelBoy

This was a *year* ago?!

ProperCharlie

So let me get this right - it's ok to f*ck about putting additives in your petrol, polishing your manifold, replacing all the plastic bits with carbon fibre bits etc, cos fiddling with a car is *manly* but changing your speaker cables is *sad*. Am I right?

/wanders off shaking head...

what would scooby do

I can sell everyone a pyramid (made out of argos clothes airers) to be placed on top of your amp. It improves Bass and mid-range.

worked on my arcam/rotel combo..

TelBoy

Some Bass yesterday...

ProperCharlie

mmm...

Had a nice pint (or two) of Abbott on Friday. Was very clear in the mid band.

MarkO

Always knew you were a shandy-drinking poofter, TelBoy. ;-)
I've done this too. LOL. Most ridiculous and hat-stand idea I've ever seen.

I remember reading a review of a £7,000 tuner in Hi-Fi Choice mag once. They said it was awesome, but the only problem was it was only good for live broadcasts, 'cos for normal radio shows it merely highlighted the shoddy equipment the stations used to broadcast.

When I was at Uni, one of the guys in our flat used to leave his Cyrus amp turned on all the time, 'cos he thought he could hear the difference between running it 'warm' and running it 'cold'. FFS. With all the p1ss-head students shouting their heads off all night you could hardly hear yourself think, let alone distinguish between an amp that hadn't been running for 6 hours.

I used to be into all this stuff (an 'audiophile') but that soon stopped when I got married.

NeilT

some years back I worked for one of the few 'real' audiophile manufacturers, and we used to smile somewhat at some of the suggestions for making your hi-fi sound better

One favourite was to keep cd's in the fridge

A lot of it is down to the very subjective nature of listening to music, but we could measure no real improvement from polishing your mains plugs (or from running your hifi off of a car battery for that matter (another favourite)

Neil

MarkO

'Tis true, it's totally subjective. If you've just spent £50 on a granite block upon which to seat your turntable (to reduce resonance, obviously ) then you're bound to think it'll sound better.

It's a bit like the 'ECU Reset phenomenum' with Scoobs - it's all in the mind. I've been out in my car after washing it and felt like the car's gone quicker before.

TelBoy

Mark!

A tuner for £7k? I'm struggling to think what that could have been. Naim NAT01? Linn Kremlin? Don't think either of those are *that* much. Do you remember?

I keep my amps on too, but in my opinion, it doesn't actually make the sound better, just "warmer"/smoother. So if you want a rawer sound for an AC/DC cd or suchlike, turn the amps off for a while!

ProperCharlie

before I shacked up with my missus I made a very deliberate point of stating that the location of the 'speakers would not UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be dictated by aesthetic or practical considerations. "They will go where I say they go; which will be where they sound best."

She thought that I was joking... little did she know.

Ha ha ha ha

MarkO

Telboy, not sure what the make was. Could have been Linn, but who knows. It was about 8 years ago, in one of their 'specials' where they did a whole edition devoted to excessive (in terms of cost and spec) kit.

As it happens, my Cyrus III is always on too , but only 'cos there's power in the PSX capacitors all the time due to its design. To turn it completely off I'd have to unplug it from the mains. However, this guy was running with a Cyrus I, an old Arcam CD player and a set of small Wharfdale speakers sitting on a rickety bookshelf. There is absolutely no way that set of kit would have been perceptibly audibly different when running cold or warm....

TelBoy

Don't agree it's subjective in all honesty.

I could 100% definitely demonstrate the difference in sound quality between my cd player on its glass shelf and the platform it now stands on. I'll guarantee it! Similarly with the mains - treat all the connections with Pro-Gold and you would just be being awkward if you didn't admit there was an improvement! And by the way, who does real granite stands for 50 quid?!

NeilT - there's your mistake then, it's the *freezer*, not the fridge you need to put them in!!

ProperCharlie

Didn't Revox make an outlandishly expensive tuner at one time? I thought that meridian were trying it on a bit with their £700 fm only tuner. I'm waiting for them to bring out an analogue/dab unit. Although I doubt that they will. Why do that when you can bring out a dab only unit for 1k, and still try to flog off the rest of your fm units as well?

Just got a little dab tuner at work - 6 music is not too bad at all.

beemerboy

please dont shoot me down in flames here, but...
surely, if you spend all day polishing a mains plug, dont you have to take the wall socket apart and polish the receiving terminals as well??

i thought conductivity is only as good as its weakest link.

???

BB

I'll get me voltmeter...

TelBoy

BB, yep! Or do as i did, and replace the sockets with pre-treated unswitched MK sockets, so you don't have to do it again!

I promise you, if you undid all your sockets at home, you'd find at least a couple where one or more of the connections were loose. Builders just don't care - why should they, as long as it works!

uksti

Had a chat yesterday to a dealer to discuss positioning of front speakers - apparently the tweeters have to talk to each other.

No idea what about....

NeilT

Telboy - we had letters from customers suggesting both fridge and freezer storage for CD's! Unfortunately nobody suggested what make of fridge / freezer to use so we were unable to test!

A test we did carry out was a 'blind listening' test on interconnects.

Ranging from a £120.00 set to a length of bell wire wired into cheap plugs.

Under blind listening conditions (i.e. the listener has no idea which interconnect is connected at the time) using the same music each time, not one person could consistently pick out the high end interconnects as the best quality, and many chose the bell wire as the most expensive. For me that spoke volumes.

However, we found that one of the most cost effective improvements came from upgrading the speaker cable, there was a remarkable difference between various brands on the market, and it does appear that the more money you spend on high quality speaker cable the better your system will sound....to a point.

Expensive, large cross section diameter cables with poor dielectric were usually the worst performers.

Neil

brickboy

It's a fair point about that top end tuner -- but any decent sound system should be able to highlight the recording & production shortcomings (or otherwise) of a CD or record.

Most modern chart-oriented stuff (Britney etc -- it's the kids' music, honest ) is compressed to the hilt for radio play and just sounds thin & nasty on a hi-fi.

Funkii Munkii

Some interesting stuff on here

I know what you mean about the interconnects

So Bi-wireable or not Bi-wireable, I bought a pair of mission M74 two years ago, which are bi wireable and I bought the correct cable, they sound great but I have never tried them with standard cable, what is the benefit if any of Bi wireable speakers, Experts

NeilT

Damn - my fridge is electrolux!

If your amp and speakers allow for bi-wiring then use it but the improvement is usually very subtle in my experience

Neil

Figment

How frequently should I change the penny on top of the stylus?

TelBoy

LOL Fig

When the blu-tak loses its stickiness of course!

Neil, which company do/did you work for?

dnb

I'm sure that it comes down to characteristic impedance in the cable in the end... Then the amp can "see" a stable impedance at the output. Remember - it's operating in the frequency domain, so you have to worry about capacitance and inductance as well as resistance.

I'm aftaid I would need my ears properly calibrated and remapped to be an Audiophile. At the end of the day, it makes little or no difference.

Uni-directional speaker wire, anyone?