Up-Pipe
13 July 2002, 12:24 PM
#31
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chris... you could do it... but if you leave anything loose then it will get thrown into your turbo... possibly damaging the blades... the downpipe's not so much of a problem as it would exit through the backbox... I would keep the standard up pipe.... just in case and buy one of these...
David
David
13 July 2002, 12:36 PM
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Very true David - the only reason I ask is that this was suggested to me by Scoob dealer (who shall remain nameless at this stage) as a possible alternative. I've not seen inside a standard up pipe, but the inference seemed to be that once you've removed the cat, it is just a metal pipe - so there shouldn't be a problem with bits falling off and hitting the turbo blades (ouch).
Chris
Chris
13 July 2002, 12:48 PM
#34
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Its just with the amount of effort to get it out... you dont want to be putting it back without doing anything...
David
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13 July 2002, 02:50 PM
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Well I've got the prototype in front of me, I've got a nasty feeling that the angles aren't quite right, so I need a second pair of hands and eyes to have a look at it as well.
The pipe wall is a bit ott (about 2.5mm thick!) and the bending needs to be done better, although as this is a prototype I expect production ones will be better...
More in my next
The pipe wall is a bit ott (about 2.5mm thick!) and the bending needs to be done better, although as this is a prototype I expect production ones will be better...
More in my next
16 July 2002, 06:10 PM
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Right, I'm still trying to get my hands on an engine still with the up pipe support brackets fitted to do one last check on the up pipe for angles, it looks ok, but I need to be sure!
I have also determined that on the MY01 cars the boss is for a temperature probe (my god there area lot of sensors and probes on the 01!) I just need to be sure about the position.
The first batch of flanges have all been made for bolts, so for them we'll weld on some fixed bolts to act as studs...hopefully we can fix this on the next batch, it's a minor detail problem...oh and we will investigate using a thinner wall section, 1.6mm instead of 2mm.
I have also determined that on the MY01 cars the boss is for a temperature probe (my god there area lot of sensors and probes on the 01!) I just need to be sure about the position.
The first batch of flanges have all been made for bolts, so for them we'll weld on some fixed bolts to act as studs...hopefully we can fix this on the next batch, it's a minor detail problem...oh and we will investigate using a thinner wall section, 1.6mm instead of 2mm.
16 July 2002, 06:36 PM
#37
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so do we get prototypes free
Where is the up-pipe support bracket? Anyway my downpipe is off so I can check fitment if you want and then mail it back?
Drop me a mail if you prefer.
Also need to speak to you about brakes... as im sure you said something interesting at donington... (that sounds bad)
David
Where is the up-pipe support bracket? Anyway my downpipe is off so I can check fitment if you want and then mail it back?
Drop me a mail if you prefer.
Also need to speak to you about brakes... as im sure you said something interesting at donington... (that sounds bad
)David
16 July 2002, 11:03 PM
#39
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not after Ive welded my turbo to the up-pipe the up-pipe to the headers and headers to the block
Only time will tell!
I can see why you say this though... especially with 2mm wall, and certain people are bound to defend their product, I also agree that the mrt is superior.. Im sticking to making / modifying my own d/pipe... I did order a scoobysport up-pipe but they shot themselves in the foot, as I said I would pay for it there and then as I was in a hurry for one (at donington show)... they said oh no, we'll ring you monday... err hello.. your over a week late..
No sale.
David
Only time will tell!
I can see why you say this though... especially with 2mm wall, and certain people are bound to defend their product, I also agree that the mrt is superior.. Im sticking to making / modifying my own d/pipe... I did order a scoobysport up-pipe but they shot themselves in the foot, as I said I would pay for it there and then as I was in a hurry for one (at donington show)... they said oh no, we'll ring you monday... err hello.. your over a week late..
No sale.
David
16 July 2002, 11:20 PM
#40
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David
LOL
I'm neither defending or condemning anybody's up pipe, but unless the flanges are *exactly* matching, IMHO it will lead to problems.
I believe that the main problem is that because the up pipe has a bend in it, when it reaches EGT's of 800c or more the pipe tries to straighten out and go back to it's *memory* position of straight, and this may cause flange alignment problems. It is also very important that the flanges are ground exactly flat *after* they are welded to the pipe. They will probably warp in the welding process even if TIG welded.
The standard expansion joint is in there for a reason, and only MRT put one in an aftermarket pipe.
Will follow this thread with interest.......it will be a few thousand miles until things manifest themselves one way or the other.
LOL
I'm neither defending or condemning anybody's up pipe, but unless the flanges are *exactly* matching, IMHO it will lead to problems.
I believe that the main problem is that because the up pipe has a bend in it, when it reaches EGT's of 800c or more the pipe tries to straighten out and go back to it's *memory* position of straight, and this may cause flange alignment problems. It is also very important that the flanges are ground exactly flat *after* they are welded to the pipe. They will probably warp in the welding process even if TIG welded.
The standard expansion joint is in there for a reason, and only MRT put one in an aftermarket pipe.
Will follow this thread with interest.......it will be a few thousand miles until things manifest themselves one way or the other.
16 July 2002, 11:27 PM
#41
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I know what you mean... the *memory* effect is quite handy for me (driving a crash damaged car amazing what you can do with a 10ton ram an oxy + acet. torch, a mig, a spot welder and a friendly scoob garage... unfortunatley youll have to follow another thread as I have never had a car on the road for more than 1000 miles at a time... (used to drive a pug 106 and that went through gearboxes like... er well I can drive one into a garage and change it in 1.5hrs... (including a clutch change if you fancy!)
Like I say time will tell... and for the proposed price, Besides Ill weld a flex in if there are probslems. Rover use them as std.. not stainless but who gives a ****... infact theres one in my hks hiper... foooking massive... 3" dia
amazing what you can do with a 10ton ram an oxy + acet. torch, a mig, a spot welder and a friendly scoob garage... unfortunatley youll have to follow another thread as I have never had a car on the road for more than 1000 miles at a time... (used to drive a pug 106 and that went through gearboxes like... er well I can drive one into a garage and change it in 1.5hrs... (including a clutch change if you fancy!)Like I say time will tell... and for the proposed price, Besides Ill weld a flex in if there are probslems. Rover use them as std.. not stainless but who gives a ****... infact theres one in my hks hiper... foooking massive... 3" dia
16 July 2002, 11:40 PM
#44
Chris, I reckon if your brave enough you could remove the cat from the up pipe. There will be no remains at all as once it is broken up, it will all fall out. There may be a shiney spring steel retainer as well that should pop out with it.
Probably best to get a spare from a kindly up pipe seller/fitter, who has removed a few OE examples that are to be chucked....
F
Probably best to get a spare from a kindly up pipe seller/fitter, who has removed a few OE examples that are to be chucked....
F
17 July 2002, 12:46 AM
#45
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DTS, I know what you mean about memory (or as R19KET thinks my lack of lately 
) Putiing a slip joint in would be feasable, but it would add to the cost considerably. It also seams that this a problem that crops up on the 01 occaisionally. I'll find out about the costs...
I've been running a solid up pipe on my '98 since Bedford earlier this year I've put about 5000 mile on since and 1 track day and no sign of problems yet (Tim now hugs the wooden chest of drawers for dear life).
I've had a thought about the mounting brackets and was wondering if slotting the holes where it fits to the block and using washers and nut/bolt (however they're fitted) would alow for some movement...DW care to have a play
[Edited by Tim W - 7/17/2002 10:27:59 AM]
) Putiing a slip joint in would be feasable, but it would add to the cost considerably. It also seams that this a problem that crops up on the 01 occaisionally. I'll find out about the costs...I've been running a solid up pipe on my '98 since Bedford earlier this year I've put about 5000 mile on since and 1 track day and no sign of problems yet (Tim now hugs the wooden chest of drawers for dear life).
I've had a thought about the mounting brackets and was wondering if slotting the holes where it fits to the block and using washers and nut/bolt (however they're fitted) would alow for some movement...DW care to have a play
[Edited by Tim W - 7/17/2002 10:27:59 AM]
17 July 2002, 09:16 AM
#47
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UPPIPE THREAD
Guys,
We are currently in the middle of development of five different versions of this, so I can at least provide you all with some accurate data.
1. The standard exhaust manifold casting has a 40mm ID discharge port.
2. The standard TD04 Mitsubishi turbo, or any of the IHI VF series turbos have a 40mm ID turbine inlet port. (Although machined with a lead in chamfer).
3. The standard exhaust manifold casting is not cast iron, It is D5S ductile iron, which is very different.
4. Any tubular steel used between the engine exhaust ports and turbine housing needs to be 321 S/S, 2mm wall section, but is expensive and requires non standard bending mandrels.
Trust the preceding helps.
Dave
APS
Guys,
We are currently in the middle of development of five different versions of this, so I can at least provide you all with some accurate data.
1. The standard exhaust manifold casting has a 40mm ID discharge port.
2. The standard TD04 Mitsubishi turbo, or any of the IHI VF series turbos have a 40mm ID turbine inlet port. (Although machined with a lead in chamfer).
3. The standard exhaust manifold casting is not cast iron, It is D5S ductile iron, which is very different.
4. Any tubular steel used between the engine exhaust ports and turbine housing needs to be 321 S/S, 2mm wall section, but is expensive and requires non standard bending mandrels.
Trust the preceding helps.
Dave
APS
17 July 2002, 11:40 AM
#49
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TimW... let me know if you want me to check fitment... I can also alter it so it fits if need be?
David
David
19 July 2002, 03:01 PM
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Found a test subject!
A local mechanic is working ona scoob with a blown up engine and he will be checking the fit of the pipe for me while the engine is out next week
Hopefully I'll have news by wednesday, and if it's good then roll on the first batch!
Incidentaly this mechanic had an interesting theory on why the gaskets are blowing, it revolved around the cast inlet manifolds not moving as much as the stainless steel replacement up pipe as they get hotter, the cast manifold obviously won't move whent he up pipe expands, and as this is ridgedly mounted both ends something has to give and the gasket is the first point of call!
We thought that cars with the tubular manifolds (mine for instance) don't suffer the same expansion problems, perhaps becasue they are free to move around a bit more...
A local mechanic is working ona scoob with a blown up engine and he will be checking the fit of the pipe for me while the engine is out next week
Hopefully I'll have news by wednesday, and if it's good then roll on the first batch!
Incidentaly this mechanic had an interesting theory on why the gaskets are blowing, it revolved around the cast inlet manifolds not moving as much as the stainless steel replacement up pipe as they get hotter, the cast manifold obviously won't move whent he up pipe expands, and as this is ridgedly mounted both ends something has to give and the gasket is the first point of call!
We thought that cars with the tubular manifolds (mine for instance) don't suffer the same expansion problems, perhaps becasue they are free to move around a bit more...
19 July 2002, 03:16 PM
#56
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hence why there is a sliding joint with a flexi spring design on the standard one..
David
[Edited by David_Wallis - 7/19/2002 3:17:30 PM]
[Edited by David_Wallis - 7/19/2002 3:18:15 PM]
David
[Edited by David_Wallis - 7/19/2002 3:17:30 PM]
[Edited by David_Wallis - 7/19/2002 3:18:15 PM]
19 July 2002, 03:52 PM
#58
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And it's that blasted flexi spring joint that keeps spliting [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
I'm going to ask about slip joints and see what that adds to the price...
I'm going to ask about slip joints and see what that adds to the price...
19 July 2002, 04:02 PM
#60
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why not just have a flex like rovers have underneath near cat... or like my hks hiper...
David
David