Will tennis become a black-dominated sport?
04 July 2002, 10:57 AM
#31
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I'm not prejudiced - I hate everyone. 
Henman's just crap - his genetic or ethnic make-up hasn't got anything to do with it.
Although he was playing better last night. I'll be surprised if he goes all the way though....
Henman's just crap - his genetic or ethnic make-up hasn't got anything to do with it.
Although he was playing better last night. I'll be surprised if he goes all the way though....
04 July 2002, 10:57 AM
#32
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yannick noah- played in the 80's and was famous for, aside from his tennis, releasing 3 albums.....clearly proving the theory that black ppl also have better rythym.
T
T
04 July 2002, 11:02 AM
#33
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Colour does have a lot to do with things and not just the colour of your skin either. For example, brown-eyed people have faster reflexes than those with blue eyes. It's the other reason why black people make such good boxers, not only do they have a greater density of fast-reacting muscles, they can also react and throw punches faster.
The other side of the coin is that in "self-pacing" sports (such as Golf), blue-eyed people do better.
The reason that discussing colour is so touchy is because of "experiments" that have been done over the years to prove superiority of one race over the other based on their ethnic origins.
People are different, we are NOT all born equal. It's our differences that make the world so interesting. It's a shame we cannot celebrate our differences without getting into childish arguments about who is better at something.
The other side of the coin is that in "self-pacing" sports (such as Golf), blue-eyed people do better.
The reason that discussing colour is so touchy is because of "experiments" that have been done over the years to prove superiority of one race over the other based on their ethnic origins.
People are different, we are NOT all born equal. It's our differences that make the world so interesting. It's a shame we cannot celebrate our differences without getting into childish arguments about who is better at something.
04 July 2002, 11:20 AM
#35
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I think that there is something in it all. Look at the finals for the olympic swiming event. Swimming is very specialized and uses certian human attributes more than other events, and therefore you see more white people putting in faster times that black people. The same goes for athletic / track and field sports, but the opposite.
there was a programme a while back on some village in africa, where the local kids just run everywhere. I think that there were 5 or 6 world marathon champions from this small village with 10000 people living in it!
That is not just luck or training - one of the people who went over there was a UK marathon runner who ran with the local kids at the weekend - he was surprised as they almost beat him on a 15 mile run (14 - 15 year olds!!)
there was a programme a while back on some village in africa, where the local kids just run everywhere. I think that there were 5 or 6 world marathon champions from this small village with 10000 people living in it!
That is not just luck or training - one of the people who went over there was a UK marathon runner who ran with the local kids at the weekend - he was surprised as they almost beat him on a 15 mile run (14 - 15 year olds!!)
04 July 2002, 11:59 AM
#36
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From Adam M:apparently there are two types of muscle, blacks have a high concentration of one than the other which gives them explosive power at the expense of tiring sooner. Hence they can dominate sports which require this kind of exertion, ie jumping, sprinting etc.
Simon.
04 July 2002, 01:04 PM
#38
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apparently there are two types of muscle, blacks have a high concentration of one than the other which gives them explosive power at the expense of tiring sooner. Hence they can dominate sports which require this kind of exertion, ie jumping, sprinting etc.
04 July 2002, 01:11 PM
#39
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paul,
any science to back up your reason? cause theres plenty to suggest otherwise.
T
ps- i find it hard to belive that ppl ignore the known facts about genetic difference...this is like having a converstaion with a christian fundementalist about adam and eve V the dinosaurs. (as bill hicks said "they'll say that dinosaur bones is just God f***ing with us" as he pretends to be God burring big bones all over the world while muttering "this will test them".)
how on earth do ppl that say there is no difference explain the sporting success of black people of west african decent in sprinting and east africans in long distance????? is it luck?
any science to back up your reason? cause theres plenty to suggest otherwise.
T
ps- i find it hard to belive that ppl ignore the known facts about genetic difference...this is like having a converstaion with a christian fundementalist about adam and eve V the dinosaurs. (as bill hicks said "they'll say that dinosaur bones is just God f***ing with us" as he pretends to be God burring big bones all over the world while muttering "this will test them".)
how on earth do ppl that say there is no difference explain the sporting success of black people of west african decent in sprinting and east africans in long distance????? is it luck?
04 July 2002, 01:34 PM
#42
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I have to agree (and completely ignoring the colour aspect of the thread) that the "power" players are spoiling the game IMHO. Getting aces all the time is not as good as hard fought rallys and clever play again IMHO.
People with ginger (auburn) hair are more prone to freakles and sunburn. Anyone that has met me at a sunny meet would notice how fast my skin goes red. It has also been found that people with ginger hair have less hair folicules on their head!
Brown eyes also have better sun protect and blue eues tend to be better in low light (although I forget why).
In the end (and getting back on thread), I don't care what the people that dominate tennis look like as long as they play a good game (except Sampras).
People with ginger (auburn) hair are more prone to freakles and sunburn. Anyone that has met me at a sunny meet would notice how fast my skin goes red. It has also been found that people with ginger hair have less hair folicules on their head!
Brown eyes also have better sun protect and blue eues tend to be better in low light (although I forget why).
In the end (and getting back on thread), I don't care what the people that dominate tennis look like as long as they play a good game (except Sampras).
04 July 2002, 01:36 PM
#43
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there are plenty of black athelites who have come from the same enviroment as white athelites but still excell in their sport.
it seems that ppl are so affraid of looking at ppl as being different that they suggest culture and econmics are the real differences.
look at the NBA, its probably fair to say that plenty of those guys played basketball because they couldnt afford to do much else, they may have suffered racism and this lead to a determination to succed that helped them get where they are now. all these things are correct but you cant look at the NBA which is dominated by black players all jumping 11 feet in the air and suggest that they are there cause of their background only. these guys are black and can jump bloody high and fast because of their genetics!
T
ps- also slow/fast twitch fibres are not from star trek- this is real stuff, proven by science.
T
it seems that ppl are so affraid of looking at ppl as being different that they suggest culture and econmics are the real differences.
look at the NBA, its probably fair to say that plenty of those guys played basketball because they couldnt afford to do much else, they may have suffered racism and this lead to a determination to succed that helped them get where they are now. all these things are correct but you cant look at the NBA which is dominated by black players all jumping 11 feet in the air and suggest that they are there cause of their background only. these guys are black and can jump bloody high and fast because of their genetics!
T
ps- also slow/fast twitch fibres are not from star trek- this is real stuff, proven by science.
T
04 July 2002, 01:56 PM
#44
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As an athletetic sorta guy myself, I have to agree with Tiggs about the muscles bit. What he forgot is that anyone can develope their weakest muscle group. Genetics merely gives a head start in the game, but ultimately, its the guy that train harder that wins.
The only sport that genetics plays a huge role in a sport is Bodybuilding. Bodybuilding looks more for proportion than size and this is where the genetics bit comes in, and this goes way beyond skin colour. There has been both black or white Mr Olympia.
Apart from that, I don't know what other sport that requires genetics as much as bodybuilding. Perhaps martial arts but thats only the Midichlorine thats needed so you can predict the moves of the opponents. But as we all know from Jedi Knight II, all you have to do to get them midichlorine is to go into the valley of the Jedi and suck up its power...
The only sport that genetics plays a huge role in a sport is Bodybuilding. Bodybuilding looks more for proportion than size and this is where the genetics bit comes in, and this goes way beyond skin colour. There has been both black or white Mr Olympia.
Apart from that, I don't know what other sport that requires genetics as much as bodybuilding. Perhaps martial arts but thats only the Midichlorine thats needed so you can predict the moves of the opponents. But as we all know from Jedi Knight II, all you have to do to get them midichlorine is to go into the valley of the Jedi and suck up its power...
04 July 2002, 01:59 PM
#45
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Black people excel in all sports - except motor racing - why is that? Can anyone name a black F1 driver/rally driver/etc etc
Why is motor racing so dominated by white Europeans and South Americans - odd when you think about it?
Why is motor racing so dominated by white Europeans and South Americans - odd when you think about it?
04 July 2002, 02:01 PM
#46
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it seems that ppl are so affraid of looking at ppl as being different that they suggest culture and econmics are the real differences
Take the success of Etheopia at long distance running,the reasons are,
1.The environment they grow up in,lots of walking and running as kids,no/few cars/busses,long distances.
2.They have a history of success so kids know it can be done.Hero's to look up to.
3.Running needs no specialist equipment to start,Africa on the whole is a poor continent (thats why there are no formula 1 drivers from Africa)
Thats why,...now over time i'm sure this lifestyle will show itself genetically,and so Eteopian atheletes will have some small genetic advantage over other nations,but thats cos of where they live/lifestyle etc,etc not just beacause their skin is black.
Finally,look at football,probably the most egalitarian sport in the world,....whats the difference between black and white players..................imo,absolutely none.
Paul.
04 July 2002, 02:03 PM
#47
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"What he forgot is that anyone can develope their weakest muscle group."
ahhh, now it gets intersting! anyone can develope a weak area but.....if you take 10 ppl with a genetic tendancy towards fast twitch fibre density and 10 ppl who dont and they both train the same are you suggesting that they will all end up the same? i dont belive it.
no one is talking about individuals here, i am white and yet im sure there are plenty of african americans, chinese and eskimos who i could beat in some 1 on 1. but when it comes to being the very best we need to assume that they are all training as hard as each other and so develope at an evenish rate- the ones who end up the best will be the ones who had the best genetic platform to grow from.
T
agree?
ahhh, now it gets intersting! anyone can develope a weak area but.....if you take 10 ppl with a genetic tendancy towards fast twitch fibre density and 10 ppl who dont and they both train the same are you suggesting that they will all end up the same? i dont belive it.
no one is talking about individuals here, i am white and yet im sure there are plenty of african americans, chinese and eskimos who i could beat in some 1 on 1. but when it comes to being the very best we need to assume that they are all training as hard as each other and so develope at an evenish rate- the ones who end up the best will be the ones who had the best genetic platform to grow from.
T
agree?
04 July 2002, 02:07 PM
#48
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I need to speak to my mum, she is a boilogist and knows exact reasons why some of these long/middle distance runners come from Kenya and Etheopia, specially the women.
You know I am sure she has something about their hips.
I'll get back to you.
You know I am sure she has something about their hips.
I'll get back to you.
04 July 2002, 02:12 PM
#51
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but when it comes to being the very best we need to assume that they are all training as hard as each other and so develope at an evenish rate- the ones who end up the best will be the ones who had the best genetic platform to grow from.
You're implying that apart from genetics all other thing are equal,just no way.What about mental strength,attitude,determination,dedication,trainin g,pschycology,diet,skill etc,etc.
Loads of things come into play that determines who wins and who comes second.
04 July 2002, 02:17 PM
#52
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ahhh, now it gets intersting! anyone can develope a weak area but.....if you take 10 ppl with a genetic tendancy towards fast twitch fibre density and 10 ppl who dont and they both train the same are you suggesting that they will all end up the same? i dont belive it.
For example, I used to be a Taekwondo and Kickboxing guy in my younger day so I was no stranger to explosive moves that requires a very very high concentration of fast twitch muscle fibres. All of the sudden I took up grappling arts which favours those with stronger endurance and I can safely say that not only am I competant in it, I excell in it.
It all boils down to training and how badly you want it. If you want, I can train for the marathon but that would mean that I'd have to quite smoking and my willpower is not that strong at the moment.
Speaking of willpower, I'll be back in a few hours to finish my coursework first. We'll continue this debate then.
04 July 2002, 02:20 PM
#54
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DavidRB has got it right we are not equal. Men and women are no way equal and the people that say we are p*ss me off.
Interesting debate, I love MarkO's comment LOL
Let me go do some research and hopefully come back with something constructive to say......here's hoping
04 July 2002, 02:22 PM
#55
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"It all boils down to training and how badly you want it. "
some of it does but not all of it.... do you really belive that no white people want to be winning short distance track events? no white guys want to be in the NBA? no white guys fancy a bit of boxing at the highest level? and only kenyans like jogging?
and yes, you may be able to train to be good at something but there are somethings that you could never be the best at.
T
some of it does but not all of it.... do you really belive that no white people want to be winning short distance track events? no white guys want to be in the NBA? no white guys fancy a bit of boxing at the highest level? and only kenyans like jogging?
and yes, you may be able to train to be good at something but there are somethings that you could never be the best at.
T
04 July 2002, 02:28 PM
#56
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Sorry, to be merely competant or even excell is not the same as dominating at the very highest world level. Tiggs is not talking specific individuals but that the trend is towards people of a perticular genetic origin.
For some sports the people dominating may be from a variety of social and economic backgrounds, so good/privelegd some bad/poor etc but the common them is that they share a common genetic derivation.
Social and economic factors are valid for a generation or two, after thats its genetics.....
I'm not entirely sure how anyone can argue that this is myth - Japanese/Chinese tend to be short. The average height is shorter than the average european. Is this from genetics or because they see successful people being short and therefore aspire to be shorter ?
Deano
For some sports the people dominating may be from a variety of social and economic backgrounds, so good/privelegd some bad/poor etc but the common them is that they share a common genetic derivation.
Social and economic factors are valid for a generation or two, after thats its genetics.....
I'm not entirely sure how anyone can argue that this is myth - Japanese/Chinese tend to be short. The average height is shorter than the average european. Is this from genetics or because they see successful people being short and therefore aspire to be shorter ?
Deano
04 July 2002, 02:36 PM
#58
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if anyone is really interested read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...612450-1847028
not all the answers but a good read.
T
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...612450-1847028
not all the answers but a good read.
T
04 July 2002, 02:37 PM
#59
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I can be the perfect example of this. Al I have to do is train in a certain area and I can be competent in less than say a year
Genetics is not just a head start, it's a finish line. Two people on the same weight-lifting regime will not end up with the same strength if one has greater muscle density to begin with. Yes, you can improve what you are born with, but no amount of training is ever going to turn Frankie Dettori into Frank Bruno!!!As for F1 being just a "rich man's sport", care to explain the prevalence of champions from Brazil, Argentina and Columbia? Black people don't excel at every sport, they are not that great at swimming because of their higher muscle/less fat ratio and the way that their achilles tendon attaches to their heel (no proof on the last one so it might be total codswallop!
).Oh, the nature versus nuture argument is an old one, so I wouldn't expect an answer out of this thread!
Interesting reading though, glad it hasn't turned nasty so far!
04 July 2002, 02:48 PM
#60
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katana, why are you mucking about with silly sports like kickboxing? why not do a sport where you can become a multimillionaire? you could always go back to martial arts once you have finacial security.
T
T