Was God having a laugh when he made this?
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Hi Paul,
Great pics! The dogs look great, especially Kobi (looks like a bit of a monster)! I love boxers, they are a fantastic breed.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience, it's heart breaking losing a well-loved family pet. As you say, aortic stenosis is a big problem in boxers, we see it all the time.
As with every area of life there are some really good breeders and some really bad. Unfortunately, vets tend to see the bad end quite a lot (by definition, we see all the animals with problems) and, as you know, there are HUGE problems.
My worry is that most breeders don't have the knowledge or expertise to truly select and improve a breed. It's not as easy as just choosing parents (grandparents etc) who have good characteristics, it goes a lot deeper than that. Even with the benefit of the tests we have available now it can still be a bit of a lottery. Trying to improve breeds is exactly why breeds have developed the problems that they have.
If it were that easy to "improve" a breed why do we have all the problems we have? It is trying to "improve" the breeds that have caused the problem. Selecting for one positive characteristic can select (unknowingly) for several bad ones. I have to deal with the end result of this every day.
Why try to "improve" a living animal anyway. Are we improving it for the animals sake or because of what we want out of it?
The bottom line is that, at present, our knowledge of genetics simply isn't good enough to manipulate safely, it really is "barn-door" stuff at the moment.
My feeling is if people hadn't selected for aesthetically pleasing traits in the first place we would not be left with lots of pedigree breeds with problems. It depresses me when I have to euthanase an animal that is suffering because it has been bred to the point that it can no longer lead a comfortable existence. And this happens more often than people believe.
Steve.
Great pics! The dogs look great, especially Kobi (looks like a bit of a monster)! I love boxers, they are a fantastic breed.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience, it's heart breaking losing a well-loved family pet. As you say, aortic stenosis is a big problem in boxers, we see it all the time.
As with every area of life there are some really good breeders and some really bad. Unfortunately, vets tend to see the bad end quite a lot (by definition, we see all the animals with problems) and, as you know, there are HUGE problems.
My worry is that most breeders don't have the knowledge or expertise to truly select and improve a breed. It's not as easy as just choosing parents (grandparents etc) who have good characteristics, it goes a lot deeper than that. Even with the benefit of the tests we have available now it can still be a bit of a lottery. Trying to improve breeds is exactly why breeds have developed the problems that they have.
If it were that easy to "improve" a breed why do we have all the problems we have? It is trying to "improve" the breeds that have caused the problem. Selecting for one positive characteristic can select (unknowingly) for several bad ones. I have to deal with the end result of this every day.
Why try to "improve" a living animal anyway. Are we improving it for the animals sake or because of what we want out of it?
The bottom line is that, at present, our knowledge of genetics simply isn't good enough to manipulate safely, it really is "barn-door" stuff at the moment.
My feeling is if people hadn't selected for aesthetically pleasing traits in the first place we would not be left with lots of pedigree breeds with problems. It depresses me when I have to euthanase an animal that is suffering because it has been bred to the point that it can no longer lead a comfortable existence. And this happens more often than people believe.
Steve.
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,396
Likes: 0
From: Perthshire
Lets face it life has come down to aesthetics. Thats why my girlfriend aint a minger
. Thats why we drive Scoobies (well appart from the owners of the fuglies 
) and so on and so on !
It is not going to stop either. Genetics just gives us too much to play around with / destroy.
Will humans end up being hip, eye or heart scored ??!
. Thats why we drive Scoobies (well appart from the owners of the fuglies ) and so on and so on !It is not going to stop either. Genetics just gives us too much to play around with / destroy.
Will humans end up being hip, eye or heart scored ??!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
PG.
Good point. In terms of humans being scored there's already a lot of debate about using genetic testing to determine the diseases one is likely to develop later in life. Could be useful in terms of anticipating problems but could be sinister in terms of not being able to get life insurance etc if you are unlucky enough to be likely to develop a life-threatening illness!
I think, like you, that aesthetics are very important up to a point (I love the look of my new car and this influenced by choice), but feel we need to draw the line at manipulating animals (and for that matter humans - which almost certainly will come), and in the process destroying their health and well being to produce something that is "nice to look at".
BuRR - Lovely little dog, I've got a Daisy also!
Good point. In terms of humans being scored there's already a lot of debate about using genetic testing to determine the diseases one is likely to develop later in life. Could be useful in terms of anticipating problems but could be sinister in terms of not being able to get life insurance etc if you are unlucky enough to be likely to develop a life-threatening illness!
I think, like you, that aesthetics are very important up to a point (I love the look of my new car and this influenced by choice), but feel we need to draw the line at manipulating animals (and for that matter humans - which almost certainly will come), and in the process destroying their health and well being to produce something that is "nice to look at".
BuRR - Lovely little dog, I've got a Daisy also!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 17,199
Likes: 0
So that's 3 on here with Border Terriers! 
Finding our dog was a bit of a nightmare. We really wanted another Border Terrier as Rocky (our previous dog - a black/tan Border Terrier) had been such a good dog but the breeder from whom we had purchased Rocky was no longer breeding so she put us in touch with Bruno's breeders.
They were very good and seriously vetted the potential owners. They register the pups for the new owners and also take back dogs up to 6 months after you take them and bitches they will have back at any time if it turns out that you don't get on. This is to prevent them ending up in Rescue homes and potentially being bred by unscrupulous breeders.
Finding our dog was a bit of a nightmare. We really wanted another Border Terrier as Rocky (our previous dog - a black/tan Border Terrier) had been such a good dog but the breeder from whom we had purchased Rocky was no longer breeding so she put us in touch with Bruno's breeders.They were very good and seriously vetted the potential owners. They register the pups for the new owners and also take back dogs up to 6 months after you take them and bitches they will have back at any time if it turns out that you don't get on. This is to prevent them ending up in Rescue homes and potentially being bred by unscrupulous breeders.
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,396
Likes: 0
From: Perthshire
Chyna and Kobe.
This is his first day in his new home ! The missus is away in Corfu at a conference so not only am I left to fend for myself, I have to look after a new pup too !!!
This is his first day in his new home ! The missus is away in Corfu at a conference so not only am I left to fend for myself, I have to look after a new pup too !!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post