Top Mounts with increased caster
22 May 2020, 11:11 AM
#61
Thanks. Absolutely! Moving to the Superpro or 2011 oem alloy control arm would be great, because of the bonus of the weak rubber rear Bush being pillowball... BUT! the jdm arms have a bracket built into them for the hid headlights, which the replacements don't.
I guess it wouldn't be a disaster to try some cheaper Cusco pillowball mounts, then return to rubber if it's too much. Of course, I have new replacements from WL as well.
In an aside for hatch/saloon owners, the oem top mount is identical to the Jdm Legacy 05-09 mount (20320) except it has an additional washer under it (20327).
I guess it wouldn't be a disaster to try some cheaper Cusco pillowball mounts, then return to rubber if it's too much. Of course, I have new replacements from WL as well.
In an aside for hatch/saloon owners, the oem top mount is identical to the Jdm Legacy 05-09 mount (20320) except it has an additional washer under it (20327).
I had to do this when putting alloy gc arms onto a gg hawk wagon, which has steel arms.
Last edited by 2pot; 22 May 2020 at 12:39 PM.
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22 May 2020, 12:25 PM
#62
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Oh for sure, definitely not going to argue that one! I think material is very much the root cause but it seems like the design also doesn't take into account some of the fundamental geometry changes that the product itself creates!
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04 June 2020, 05:12 PM
#65
Polyurethane rather than rubber would make sense as a ‘different’ way of doing it, and maybe help reduce the cracking the whiteline parts seem to get? The shop response is hilarious though, you’d expect better from someone in euro’s or Halfords!
Post #7 is interesting as it suggests that whiteline haven’t changed the plane the bearing sits on in relation to the mounting plane of the top mount to the chassis, which would put additional stress on one side of the bearing as it takes more load, probably causing binding and then perhaps stressing the rubber more than it’s designed for as it’s also having to then deal with a twisting load. All surmisation of course, but a possibility. If that is indeed true then it would seem the Pedders product *could* resolve the issues of the Whiteline stuff, but there doesn’t seem to be any real world feedback on them from anywhere.
Post #7 is interesting as it suggests that whiteline haven’t changed the plane the bearing sits on in relation to the mounting plane of the top mount to the chassis, which would put additional stress on one side of the bearing as it takes more load, probably causing binding and then perhaps stressing the rubber more than it’s designed for as it’s also having to then deal with a twisting load. All surmisation of course, but a possibility. If that is indeed true then it would seem the Pedders product *could* resolve the issues of the Whiteline stuff, but there doesn’t seem to be any real world feedback on them from anywhere.
The phrase steel and metal has also been removed.
https://www.rallysportdirect.com/par...nt-strut-mount
Last edited by 2pot; 04 June 2020 at 10:42 PM.
04 June 2020, 05:23 PM
#66
Aren't the group n versions open at the top and rubber sealed at the bottom?
Wonder if water penetration up under the arch is an issue, as the bearing is shielded, but not sealed?
Last edited by 2pot; 04 June 2020 at 05:46 PM.
04 June 2020, 05:51 PM
#67
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Why would they choose to use a metal ‘shielded’ ZZ bearing rather than an RS rubber shielded design? It’s not as if they’re trying to reduce friction that much (I remove shields from internal bearings in mtb hubs for faster rolling), nor are they trying to deal with any heat that might damage a rubber sealer bearing. Given where mud gets to behind the arches there’s some amount of force in the water a wheel arch sees, and the better sealing the bearing has the better, surely?
04 June 2020, 05:54 PM
#68
Why would they choose to use a metal ‘shielded’ ZZ bearing rather than an RS rubber shielded design? It’s not as if they’re trying to reduce friction that much (I remove shields from internal bearings in mtb hubs for faster rolling), nor are they trying to deal with any heat that might damage a rubber sealer bearing. Given where mud gets to behind the arches there’s some amount of force in the water a wheel arch sees, and the better sealing the bearing has the better, surely?
08 June 2020, 11:32 AM
#69
It's worth adding that I do get the occasion spring bind with the customary ping but I'm pretty sure I've had that ever since the mounts were fitted, so that could be down to my install. As I'm running home-brewed Koni inserts on KYB struts, with PCA springs (that are 6y/60k) and Whiteline mounts, it could be down to any one of those parts or in combination. Typically a worn bearing would be the culprit but as I say, I think the binding issue has been there for a while. I plan to overhaul the suspension again at some point, as it doesn't drive over rough roads as well as I would like for a daily but I don't know whether that is down to the worn springs, bumpstops or the Koni insert combo.
07 August 2020, 10:01 AM
#75
Scooby Regular
for the larger - later Hatch / Legacy Gen4 style top mounts Pedders only currently offer a std position set-up
have been trialling the Pedders GC8 / new-age off-set ones for a while and main difference (apart from material) is the bearing is actually angled rather than being vertical like the Whiteline - still haven't seen the amount of failures that some are reporting but think we have had 2x customers over the last 6months and both were units over 2yrs old
Whiteline simply sorted no issue
have been trialling the Pedders GC8 / new-age off-set ones for a while and main difference (apart from material) is the bearing is actually angled rather than being vertical like the Whiteline - still haven't seen the amount of failures that some are reporting but think we have had 2x customers over the last 6months and both were units over 2yrs old
Whiteline simply sorted no issue
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07 August 2020, 10:23 AM
#76
You say Whiteline sorted, "no issue", I don't call it no issue, I doubt they paid for fitting and suspension alignment of a new pair of their dodgy top mounts that will probably need replacing after just a couple of years. Sorting would be Whiteline paying for their customers to have the Pedders parts fitted if they are incapable of making them properly.
I am gutted, I have just had a complete suspension refresh so that my car would be reliable for a good few years, and I now have a pair of these top mounts, I wish I had got the Pedders parts instead. I cant believe Whiteline didn't angle the bearings (that's basic engineering), and I cant believe thay are still selling them as they are!
I am gutted, I have just had a complete suspension refresh so that my car would be reliable for a good few years, and I now have a pair of these top mounts, I wish I had got the Pedders parts instead. I cant believe Whiteline didn't angle the bearings (that's basic engineering), and I cant believe thay are still selling them as they are!
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08 August 2020, 08:24 AM
#79
Scooby Regular
more like a grpN style rubber and obviously the off-set benefit (if thats what your looking for)
having used their std mounts on their EziFit kits for years they are very durable.........
having used their std mounts on their EziFit kits for years they are very durable.........
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10 August 2020, 11:57 AM
#82
Scooby Regular
sorry they don't - I mentioned them in post # 75
"for the larger - later Hatch / Legacy Gen4 style top mounts Pedders only currently offer a std position set-up"
"for the larger - later Hatch / Legacy Gen4 style top mounts Pedders only currently offer a std position set-up"
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13 August 2020, 04:06 PM
#83
So Whiteline have said that cracking on my mounts just look like normal wear and because they are out of warranty, I would have to send them to them for examination before determining whether they have failed.....so looks like I will be buying some Pedders mounts some time soon....
14 May 2021, 01:21 PM
#84
Update.
Bought the Pedders and removed the Whitelines. On removal of the strut the mounts would only move through 270degrees. Once removed, the bearing will spin 360 but it's clear that it's shot. Very rough to turn. No doubt rust inside.
The Pedders don't angle the mount or bearing either unfortunately, but that maybe less of an issue if the main issue is bearing corrosion. On the Whiteline mounts the bearing sits in a metal race, whereas the Pedders uses a sealed rubber bearing. Hopefully this will prolong the life of them.
On the top, the rubber bearing housing is 50% thicker on the Pedders. I'll post some photos later.
Bought the Pedders and removed the Whitelines. On removal of the strut the mounts would only move through 270degrees. Once removed, the bearing will spin 360 but it's clear that it's shot. Very rough to turn. No doubt rust inside.
The Pedders don't angle the mount or bearing either unfortunately, but that maybe less of an issue if the main issue is bearing corrosion. On the Whiteline mounts the bearing sits in a metal race, whereas the Pedders uses a sealed rubber bearing. Hopefully this will prolong the life of them.
On the top, the rubber bearing housing is 50% thicker on the Pedders. I'll post some photos later.
14 May 2021, 01:55 PM
#86
Late to this party but I had a set of Com-Cs disintegrate on my hawk, RB320 springs and Bilstein struts, ALK.
I wasn't too bothered as I expect rubber top mounts to wear, they were fitted on the car when I acquired it, and I got a lot of hard road and track usage from the set. I replaced with new Com-Cs before selling the car but nowadays would go straight to a solid top mount.
I wasn't too bothered as I expect rubber top mounts to wear, they were fitted on the car when I acquired it, and I got a lot of hard road and track usage from the set. I replaced with new Com-Cs before selling the car but nowadays would go straight to a solid top mount.
14 May 2021, 02:28 PM
#87
The Pedders don't angle the mount or bearing either unfortunately, but that maybe less of an issue if the main issue is bearing corrosion. On the Whiteline mounts the bearing sits in a metal race, whereas the Pedders uses a sealed rubber bearing. Hopefully this will prolong the life of them.
On the top, the rubber bearing housing is 50% thicker on the Pedders. I'll post some photos later.
On the top, the rubber bearing housing is 50% thicker on the Pedders. I'll post some photos later.
14 May 2021, 02:59 PM
#89
They were the same price so I was half expecting them to be exactly the same - both sourced from the same supplier. The Whiteline ones are a few years old, so can't guarantee that the Pedders aren't simply an upgrade from the same single supplier and you'd receive the same from Whiteline. Just speculation.
An angled mount would seem like a much better design but as I say, it appears bearing failure due to rust is the killer rather than rubber degradation - although maybe the stress on the rubber due to the angle of the strut contributes to the water ingress and failure of the bearing?
* The ones I bought from Pedders are the only offset top mounts that they currently list.
An angled mount would seem like a much better design but as I say, it appears bearing failure due to rust is the killer rather than rubber degradation - although maybe the stress on the rubber due to the angle of the strut contributes to the water ingress and failure of the bearing?
* The ones I bought from Pedders are the only offset top mounts that they currently list.
Last edited by TECHNOPUG; 14 May 2021 at 03:05 PM.