Bob Rawle and his attitude problem.
06 April 2019, 09:25 PM
#151
The degree in mapping was a genuine question, most mappers ive know have been self taught, and ive know guys from the ones who rock up and dl a generic map, to live mappers to the guys who write the software.
I use andrew carr for my subarus.
My vag stuff custom code
There has to be some accountability, but its where the line is drawn, we have customers come in from being rear ended and now their brakes squeel etc. If its directly related fair do but its not a free for all,
The jdm hatch im playing devils advocate, thats all. Why people would be scared to come forward id id ne know, now more than ever with the damage that could be done with social media, just look at the scooby clinic road test
I use andrew carr for my subarus.
My vag stuff custom code
There has to be some accountability, but its where the line is drawn, we have customers come in from being rear ended and now their brakes squeel etc. If its directly related fair do but its not a free for all,
The jdm hatch im playing devils advocate, thats all. Why people would be scared to come forward id id ne know, now more than ever with the damage that could be done with social media, just look at the scooby clinic road test
I know the way dealerships work
what had the scoobyclinic road test got to do with mapping?
can someone tell Steve to come back on he seems
to have gone missing
Last edited by RAGGY DOO; 06 April 2019 at 09:29 PM.
06 April 2019, 09:35 PM
#153
Scooby Regular
I doubt Red Bull F1 or Mercedes F1 or any of the BTCC teams use self-taught mappers to map their cars.
And to be totally honest, it costs about £600 for a full day mapping of a car on a dyno + road by a proper BTCC software engineer.
Puts things in perspective on the fees of the Subaru mapping cowboys doesn’t it?
06 April 2019, 09:44 PM
#154
Budget sadly - not everyone can drop the dollar on a 1k ecu.
Think it also depends on what level your tuning.
For a simple map, with exhaust and decat/fp youd like to think most mappers who come recommended would be fine,
Now start forging engines, changing turbos, injectors etc then your onto next level and would like to think you look for a higher skill set.
Ive always been happy with andrew c, i know some who havent. But my experience has always been good, hes just so hard to get hold of, and for me hes always given me an invoice so all above board there, i bet theres alot who do pocket it though as they can earn a wedge
Think it also depends on what level your tuning.
For a simple map, with exhaust and decat/fp youd like to think most mappers who come recommended would be fine,
Now start forging engines, changing turbos, injectors etc then your onto next level and would like to think you look for a higher skill set.
Ive always been happy with andrew c, i know some who havent. But my experience has always been good, hes just so hard to get hold of, and for me hes always given me an invoice so all above board there, i bet theres alot who do pocket it though as they can earn a wedge
07 April 2019, 06:38 AM
#155
Scooby Regular
yeah I apologised as it was your thread and its up you who you wanted to blame that's all ,,,,, remember all your car needed was a magic syvecs and a quick map and all your problems would be solved ,, not the case was it as more problems were found with the car after that , and clearly nothing to do with the mapping ,,,, wiring problems , stuff in the tank , you can't blame a mapper from them if he isnt working on the car as your meant to give it to him in a good enough state to map it
give a chef a turd and you can't expect your cake to taste nice
07 April 2019, 07:18 AM
#156
im not a spokes person for bob , im just one of the many many happy poeple he has helped out over the years so why would I just stand by and let someone slag him off when the man has done me massive favours ????
yeah I apologised as it was your thread and its up you who you wanted to blame that's all ,,,,, remember all your car needed was a magic syvecs and a quick map and all your problems would be solved ,, not the case was it as more problems were found with the car after that , and clearly nothing to do with the mapping ,,,, wiring problems , stuff in the tank , you can't blame a mapper from them if he isnt working on the car as your meant to give it to him in a good enough state to map it
give a chef a turd and you can't expect your cake to taste nice
yeah I apologised as it was your thread and its up you who you wanted to blame that's all ,,,,, remember all your car needed was a magic syvecs and a quick map and all your problems would be solved ,, not the case was it as more problems were found with the car after that , and clearly nothing to do with the mapping ,,,, wiring problems , stuff in the tank , you can't blame a mapper from them if he isnt working on the car as your meant to give it to him in a good enough state to map it
give a chef a turd and you can't expect your cake to taste nice
answer below
why did he not see a single issue on his live data if the car was riddled with faults
why did he refuse to map
answer me that please ?
Last edited by RAGGY DOO; 07 April 2019 at 07:24 AM.
07 April 2019, 06:24 PM
#157
Scooby Regular
holy ****, what was wrong with it?
07 April 2019, 06:27 PM
#158
Scooby Regular
The degree in mapping was a genuine question, most mappers ive know have been self taught, and ive know guys from the ones who rock up and dl a generic map, to live mappers to the guys who write the software.
I use andrew carr for my subarus.
My vag stuff custom code
There has to be some accountability, but its where the line is drawn, we have customers come in from being rear ended and now their brakes squeel etc. If its directly related fair do but its not a free for all,
The jdm hatch im playing devils advocate, thats all. Why people would be scared to come forward id id ne know, now more than ever with the damage that could be done with social media, just look at the scooby clinic road test
I use andrew carr for my subarus.
My vag stuff custom code
There has to be some accountability, but its where the line is drawn, we have customers come in from being rear ended and now their brakes squeel etc. If its directly related fair do but its not a free for all,
The jdm hatch im playing devils advocate, thats all. Why people would be scared to come forward id id ne know, now more than ever with the damage that could be done with social media, just look at the scooby clinic road test
07 April 2019, 06:41 PM
#159
ive only had 1 car mapped and it went like this.......
2004 blob wrx with sti bottom end that was already mapped by powerstation to 263bhp when i bought it
i then went down the usual route
fully decat
3" exhaust
heat wrapped rcm headers
sti pinks
walbro pump
plugs
vf35
sti top mount
also did full cam belt kit/water pump and all oils/fluids
car was drove for 1/4 mile under 2500rpm from garage where mods were fitted down to rcm to meet duncan (race-dynamix)
he asked what had been done and looked under the bonnet then drove it on the dyno and strapped it down, i was really getting excited now. after maybe 50 mins of mapping (not including strapping down time and setting up) the car did its final pull and made 354bhp and over 360ftlbs which was massive for a vf35 and i was chuffed, i went outside to call the garage to let them know how much power it made and then rang my mrs, whilst i was on the phone i noticed duncan kneeling down by my cars front end as if he was listening to something.......................
he came over to me and gave me the bad news that my bottom end had failed, to say i was gutted was an under-statement. i paid him his fee (£350 i think it was) and drove the car home very very slowly.
all the mods/work/service items and mapping cost me over £2k si i was broke and now i had to source a new engine. the choice was made to buy a blob sti complete engine from matty b for £1k i think it was, i then spent another £800 on all full cam belt kit/water pump/inlet gaskets/rocker gaskets/spark plugs/oil and filter and obviously the engine change over.
duncan came to my house to road test the map on the car with the new engine, done a few pulls on a dual carriage way and that was it (he didnt charge me for this) the car never ran right and after 4k rpm it was holding back quite badly, after many attempts to find out why it turned out my samco inlet pipe was a fake and was sucking itself shut on boost so i changed it for a genuine item and problem was solved. after 4-5 weeks the car became very hard to start-pumped out grey/white smoke whilst turning over.
the car was very very quick and the pops and bangs were awesome but it was never right in my opinion and drove like a dog really.
now i cant sit here and say i blame duncan for the bottom end failure or the poor running of the new engine as i dont have the proof but like has been said before in this thread it seemed to be over very quickly...........in and out like at the hair-dressers and has left a bitter taste in my mouth and a fear of rolling roads.
that was in 2013, i have never been on a dyno again until last year when i took my hawk sti for a health check @ scooby-clinic (they built it and mapped it originally) i was very very nervous and to be fair to them they put my mind at ease, beef talked me through it and kev assured me it was in good hands. i simply couldnt watch it being ran though so i went and sat in their waiting room and dan came in to say hello and we had a good chat with me and i confessed that i wasnt a clinic fan due to reading alot about the pot-hole incident. it was unfair of me to judge them over that without giving them a chance on my car. my car needed a tweak to its map so the bill should have been £250 but kev did it for a straight £100 as he could tell i was really nervous. my opinion of the clinic has since changed and i have 100% faith in them and their ability. just a shame they are 70 odd miles from me really otherwise i would use them more.
2004 blob wrx with sti bottom end that was already mapped by powerstation to 263bhp when i bought it
i then went down the usual route
fully decat
3" exhaust
heat wrapped rcm headers
sti pinks
walbro pump
plugs
vf35
sti top mount
also did full cam belt kit/water pump and all oils/fluids
car was drove for 1/4 mile under 2500rpm from garage where mods were fitted down to rcm to meet duncan (race-dynamix)
he asked what had been done and looked under the bonnet then drove it on the dyno and strapped it down, i was really getting excited now. after maybe 50 mins of mapping (not including strapping down time and setting up) the car did its final pull and made 354bhp and over 360ftlbs which was massive for a vf35 and i was chuffed, i went outside to call the garage to let them know how much power it made and then rang my mrs, whilst i was on the phone i noticed duncan kneeling down by my cars front end as if he was listening to something.......................
he came over to me and gave me the bad news that my bottom end had failed, to say i was gutted was an under-statement. i paid him his fee (£350 i think it was) and drove the car home very very slowly.
all the mods/work/service items and mapping cost me over £2k si i was broke and now i had to source a new engine. the choice was made to buy a blob sti complete engine from matty b for £1k i think it was, i then spent another £800 on all full cam belt kit/water pump/inlet gaskets/rocker gaskets/spark plugs/oil and filter and obviously the engine change over.
duncan came to my house to road test the map on the car with the new engine, done a few pulls on a dual carriage way and that was it (he didnt charge me for this) the car never ran right and after 4k rpm it was holding back quite badly, after many attempts to find out why it turned out my samco inlet pipe was a fake and was sucking itself shut on boost so i changed it for a genuine item and problem was solved. after 4-5 weeks the car became very hard to start-pumped out grey/white smoke whilst turning over.
the car was very very quick and the pops and bangs were awesome but it was never right in my opinion and drove like a dog really.
now i cant sit here and say i blame duncan for the bottom end failure or the poor running of the new engine as i dont have the proof but like has been said before in this thread it seemed to be over very quickly...........in and out like at the hair-dressers and has left a bitter taste in my mouth and a fear of rolling roads.
that was in 2013, i have never been on a dyno again until last year when i took my hawk sti for a health check @ scooby-clinic (they built it and mapped it originally) i was very very nervous and to be fair to them they put my mind at ease, beef talked me through it and kev assured me it was in good hands. i simply couldnt watch it being ran though so i went and sat in their waiting room and dan came in to say hello and we had a good chat with me and i confessed that i wasnt a clinic fan due to reading alot about the pot-hole incident. it was unfair of me to judge them over that without giving them a chance on my car. my car needed a tweak to its map so the bill should have been £250 but kev did it for a straight £100 as he could tell i was really nervous. my opinion of the clinic has since changed and i have 100% faith in them and their ability. just a shame they are 70 odd miles from me really otherwise i would use them more.
07 April 2019, 10:45 PM
#164
08 April 2019, 02:22 PM
#166
Scooby Regular
isnt that a bit high for a vf35 surely overboosting or am i missing something? like if I installed a 350 bhp turbo and my mapper came back with 370 (not on meth) id be a bit dubious no? even if it is only jut over i guess...
08 April 2019, 02:30 PM
#168
Surely All mappers are self taught ?
There is no course that makes you qualified, there is no degree to make you qualified.
An understanding of engine`s , thermo dynamics and being able to hear when an engine is telling you its at the limit is all experience acquired on the job.
I guess what makes a pro mapper is if its their day job, doing many many cars a week.
I map my own car, i dont call myself a mapper tho.
There is no course that makes you qualified, there is no degree to make you qualified.
An understanding of engine`s , thermo dynamics and being able to hear when an engine is telling you its at the limit is all experience acquired on the job.
I guess what makes a pro mapper is if its their day job, doing many many cars a week.
I map my own car, i dont call myself a mapper tho.
Last edited by The Rig; 08 April 2019 at 03:17 PM.
08 April 2019, 03:30 PM
#173
LOL. I see Bob mapped that one too then. I will have made slightly more due to the porting, uprated actuator and FMIC setup which will allow for a slightly increased top end. Also as said in the thread, you don#t know how accurate the dyno really is.
08 April 2019, 05:05 PM
#174
Scooby Regular
Surely All mappers are self taught ?
There is no course that makes you qualified, there is no degree to make you qualified.
An understanding of engine`s , thermo dynamics and being able to hear when an engine is telling you its at the limit is all experience acquired on the job.
I guess what makes a pro mapper is if its their day job, doing many many cars a week.
I map my own car, i dont call myself a mapper tho.
There is no course that makes you qualified, there is no degree to make you qualified.
An understanding of engine`s , thermo dynamics and being able to hear when an engine is telling you its at the limit is all experience acquired on the job.
I guess what makes a pro mapper is if its their day job, doing many many cars a week.
I map my own car, i dont call myself a mapper tho.
Some are just that smart they are self taught and now have years of experience.
09 April 2019, 11:34 AM
#178
Shouldn't a mapper also be a very experienced mechanic? I mean he/she should know the ins and outs of every bolt on the car before messing with an ecu.
Also the manufacturers spend thousands and thousands of hours testing the set up of a car before releasing them on the road and still get stuff wrong.
What do mappers think there going to do in a few hours or even a day?
Also the manufacturers spend thousands and thousands of hours testing the set up of a car before releasing them on the road and still get stuff wrong.
What do mappers think there going to do in a few hours or even a day?
09 April 2019, 11:37 AM
#179
BoB has mapped my P1 on Ecutek software and later on my Motec m800 without any problem......he is straight and very forward so if you turn up with your car with issues before mapping then he will have a go at you , other than that one of the better ones for mapping !
09 April 2019, 11:44 AM
#180
Scooby Regular
The op was basicly arguing with them even though they were blowing holes in his results due to technical reasons, so is it any wonder they can't be bothered to post any more?