Bob Rawle and his attitude problem.
04 April 2019, 01:13 PM
#36
while thats true to an extent there so many more of those types of cars on the rd and they run similar if not the same ecu
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
04 April 2019, 01:16 PM
#37
while thats true to an extent there so many more of those types of cars on the rd and they run similar if not the same ecu
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
04 April 2019, 01:37 PM
#39
Scooby Regular
while thats true to an extent there so many more of those types of cars on the rd and they run similar if not the same ecu
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
)The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
04 April 2019, 01:37 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
while thats true to an extent there so many more of those types of cars on the rd and they run similar if not the same ecu
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
also is it the mappers job to make the car good for mapping, one thing with mapping is it will highlight any fault or part about to break!! your adding much more stress on the parts
when we mapped vag stuff coilpacks and mafs were the main things to go after a map,
its the owners responsibility to bring a car in good condition for mapping,
FB says i can get 500bhp with a map on a stock car, so why havn't i got it?
Or accuse decent tuners of ripping people off or adding things to the bill for the sake of it, when in reality they are fixing faults that have been found. Seen some proper nails that owners have been told they are mint cars by FB wanna be tuners hahaha
04 April 2019, 01:39 PM
#41
Who do all the evo boys use ?
besides litchfield who do the other jap marques use ?
My mate had an evo 8 mapper stage 1
by clive at rc developments on ecutek 9 years ago
1.6 bar car never missed a beat in 9 years
rare to hear stories like that
on a personal level I want my car to start and drive as close to oe as possible
no stuttering no starting issues no idle issues no fueling issues
and when I when I give it the beans go like a stabbed rat
is that so much to ask ?
04 April 2019, 01:41 PM
#42
Apologies but I lost you there. How is the failure of the coilpacks and MAFs after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the blown headgasket after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the car running very rich or very lean or stuttering or cutting out after a remap the owner's responsibility? That is essentially what I was talking about, earlier; anything goes sideways it is always the owner's responsibility, isn't it? )
The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
)The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
Agree a a million percent
04 April 2019, 01:42 PM
#43
I think I'd only consider getting work done where both the mechanicals and mapping are handled by the same business. If you've checked the car over first, then fitted parts, then mapped it and there are then issues, there really is no else to point the finger at. Short of any new parts being faulty, it's entirely the responsibility of one party. Whilst it's true that it's possible that other parts fail due to increased stresses, who wants to be recovering a vehicle to another mechanic/business to rectify, only for a separate entity to map the car and any issues result in more finger pointing and hassle?
04 April 2019, 01:43 PM
#44
Apologies but I lost you there. How is the failure of the coilpacks and MAFs after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the blown headgasket after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the car running very rich or very lean or stuttering or cutting out after a remap the owner's responsibility? That is essentially what I was talking about, earlier; anything goes sideways it is always the owner's responsibility, isn't it? )
The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
)The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
04 April 2019, 01:45 PM
#45
After i was asked to take my car back to Northern Ireland for a fourth time
i asked it it was possible for bob to fly into cork instead of the north
rectify my car and I’d drive him up north with lap top plugged in
i was heckled at
refuted quite aggressively that these problems on the car were anything to do with them both garage and mapper
they will walk away from it
i bet you I’ll have the same issue when I send this Owens turbo back
it will be everyone else’s fault but the turbo
i asked it it was possible for bob to fly into cork instead of the north
rectify my car and I’d drive him up north with lap top plugged in
i was heckled at
refuted quite aggressively that these problems on the car were anything to do with them both garage and mapper
they will walk away from it
i bet you I’ll have the same issue when I send this Owens turbo back
it will be everyone else’s fault but the turbo
Last edited by RAGGY DOO; 04 April 2019 at 01:46 PM.
04 April 2019, 01:51 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
After i was asked to take my car back to Northern Ireland for a fourth time
i asked it it was possible for bob to fly into cork instead of the north
rectify my car and I’d drive him up north with lap top plugged in
i was heckled at
refuted quite aggressively that these problems on the car were anything to do with them both garage and mapper
they will walk away from it
i bet you I’ll have the same issue when I send this Owens turbo back
it will be everyone else’s fault but the turbo
i asked it it was possible for bob to fly into cork instead of the north
rectify my car and I’d drive him up north with lap top plugged in
i was heckled at
refuted quite aggressively that these problems on the car were anything to do with them both garage and mapper
they will walk away from it
i bet you I’ll have the same issue when I send this Owens turbo back
it will be everyone else’s fault but the turbo
04 April 2019, 01:51 PM
#47
well if were talking vag for a second, coilpacks are a known weak point, so your asking a coil pack thats x yrs old covering x thousand miles to then increase spark and power, and it can fail.
now if you have a 2.5 which is know to have weak hg/ and head bolt stretch under boost and you increase boost what do you think will happen???
now dont get me wrong a mapper can be ****e, they can just increase boost and fueling but every fault of a car inst the mappers fault, but you cant have a mapper whos done hundreds of cars and has great reviews and then all of a sudden hes crap and ruined a car. theres more too it
now if you have a 2.5 which is know to have weak hg/ and head bolt stretch under boost and you increase boost what do you think will happen???
now dont get me wrong a mapper can be ****e, they can just increase boost and fueling but every fault of a car inst the mappers fault, but you cant have a mapper whos done hundreds of cars and has great reviews and then all of a sudden hes crap and ruined a car. theres more too it
04 April 2019, 01:54 PM
#48
Scooby Regular
Apologies but I lost you there. How is the failure of the coilpacks and MAFs after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the blown headgasket after a remap the owner's responsibility? How is the car running very rich or very lean or stuttering or cutting out after a remap the owner's responsibility? That is essentially what I was talking about, earlier; anything goes sideways it is always the owner's responsibility, isn't it? )
The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
)The mapper does not have to make the car good for mapping (unless they have a workshop and have done the spanner work on the car as well), but they need to have a thorough knowledge of the electronic and mechanical aspect of the car before they even go near it. There are no standards and no formal qualifications needed, so any man and his dog can calls himself a mapper and blame everything on the paying (over the odds) customer.
Also some mappers claim they can map round failed sensors and don't even road test the car after a dyno map.
04 April 2019, 01:58 PM
#49
Scooby Regular
well if were talking vag for a second, coilpacks are a known weak point, so your asking a coil pack thats x yrs old covering x thousand miles to then increase spark and power, and it can fail.
now if you have a 2.5 which is know to have weak hg/ and head bolt stretch under boost and you increase boost what do you think will happen???
now dont get me wrong a mapper can be ****e, they can just increase boost and fueling but every fault of a car inst the mappers fault, but you cant have a mapper whos done hundreds of cars and has great reviews and then all of a sudden hes crap and ruined a car. theres more too it
now if you have a 2.5 which is know to have weak hg/ and head bolt stretch under boost and you increase boost what do you think will happen???
now dont get me wrong a mapper can be ****e, they can just increase boost and fueling but every fault of a car inst the mappers fault, but you cant have a mapper whos done hundreds of cars and has great reviews and then all of a sudden hes crap and ruined a car. theres more too it
The car is only as strong as the weakest part, maf's are a good example. Tuned classics tend eat them when they start to go up the power level. Yet people don't realise that and dont wanna spend £1500 going aftermarket so moan constantly about them failing.
04 April 2019, 02:21 PM
#51
Yes and no. You also need to wait to see what Owens say about the turbo don't you? They will no doubt be standing their ground that the turbo is 100% fine and something was done at SC to make it look worse than it was so SC could guarantee another sale and labour on their own unit? Can you not see this coming too? Every story has 2 sides and all that. blah blah blah
04 April 2019, 02:24 PM
#52
Yes and no. You also need to wait to see what Owens say about the turbo don't you? They will no doubt be standing their ground that the turbo is 100% fine and something was done at SC to make it look worse than it was so SC could guarantee another sale and labour on their own unit? Can you not see this coming too? Every story has 2 sides and all that. blah blah blah
my point being there is little accountability in this tuning game
and almost no honour amoungst thieves
04 April 2019, 02:53 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
This is also the issue, people assume they just need a turbo and a map and they will be at the max power they can be. But then they don't realise they need to do Injectors, inlet pipe, fuel pump etc etc
The car is only as strong as the weakest part, maf's are a good example. Tuned classics tend eat them when they start to go up the power level. Yet people don't realise that and dont wanna spend £1500 going aftermarket so moan constantly about them failing.
The car is only as strong as the weakest part, maf's are a good example. Tuned classics tend eat them when they start to go up the power level. Yet people don't realise that and dont wanna spend £1500 going aftermarket so moan constantly about them failing.
Engine out, forged pistons and rods, main bearings done, ARP studs, Cosworth gaskets etc, a really great engine build from possibly the best man in the UK. Car back to the same mapper, he can't get any more power out of it (in fact he couldn't get beyond 320bhp), so he suggests another/bigger turbo of the MDX range. I am reluctant to do that, so I drive the car around as is for a bit. The car starts to hit boost cut more and more frequently and more and more violently. Attempts to communicate with the mapper unsuccessful (sounds familiar)
MDX 321T+ purchased, installed by another garage (very recommended on this forum actually) which maps on a dyno as well. Chap probably had a bad day as the car bucks and stutters on the dyno with the new turbo and he can't figure out why, so he sends me on my way as time has passed and he needs to shut up shop for the day. I drive the car off boost for a while, pop the hood after a week or so and see oil smudges around the intercooler to throttle body hose. Light bulb moment, boost leak detected (now why couldn't he find it at his shop? Probably had a bad day as mentioned earlier. He is admittedly a very nice chap)
Boost leak fixed by myself with a couple of new clamps and off to a different mapper. Car mapped to over 400bhp and now restricted by the intake and stock injectors I am told.
12 months later returned to the same mapper with a new intake and bigger injectors. Car mapped to 450bhp/450lbft at 1.4 bar (or so I am told by the deltadash calculations he did). The car stutters though; he says the injectors are too big and the intake too big too (funny that)
A year later, putting up with the stuttering car, time for MOT; car fails (always had a sports cat on) with 10%CO readings. The MOT guy is baffled and suggests I should contact the mapper. I log the car and the AFRs are off the rich scale (probably were like that all along). Attempt to contact the mapper; got a response; very delayed but a response nevertheless, so I should really thank my lucky stars, shouldn't I?
He says it can't be the map, but if I could bring the car around he can have a look, as long as I pay again for the privilege.
Decided to try a different mapper a bit closer, as I am losing the will to live.
He hooks up the car, yes it is running very rich mate. New map on the car, still jerking, stuttering etc.
I log the car again, running very lean on light throttle for a second or so this time. If I crank up the fuel pressure on the regulator, it doesn't stutter but predictably enough smells like a refinery on idle. A few miles later headgaskets go again. Then car goes and I am free
Purchased unmodified JDM twinscroll of the S variety with pillowball suspension etc and found the joy in driving and my smile again
04 April 2019, 03:35 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
Now, does anyone want to guess which one BR was of the above 4 mappers?
Come to think of it, I have a few parts which are surplus to requirements. Who wants to have a go at guessing all 4 of them (in the right order obviously) for a small prize? A lightly used Grimmspeed TMIC maybe?
Come to think of it, I have a few parts which are surplus to requirements. Who wants to have a go at guessing all 4 of them (in the right order obviously) for a small prize? A lightly used Grimmspeed TMIC maybe?