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Old 26 October 2018, 04:04 PM
  #61  
stonejedi
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Lol at you guys,depending on what standard ecu is being used and what mods the car has,a standard ecu would be more then adequate with say ecutek software or the like to make for a well performing safe car to drive but...for big power upgrades an aftermarket ecu like Syvecs or link is much more tuneable and more in place to get the full potential from said upgrades and safely.SJ.
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Old 26 October 2018, 08:21 PM
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Lol, I'll give an example in layman terms.

back to back a stock ecu vs a syvecs for example.

syvecs will run more power and more timing, fact over a stock ecu, much safer from any areas where a stock ecu will be on the edge and have to pulll things back to make it safe, syvecs you can go past that and still make it safe, in fact more safer with its pulling timing back. A whole list of other features, full wideband control where it actually logs it in ecu and will adjust to suit.

point being, both ecu will run whatever you want to achieve or less than the other etc, but ultimately you will gain a lot more with an aftermarket ecu, so no, it's not something you NEED. It's something you 'choose' over the other!
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Old 26 October 2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post
Lol, I'll give an example in layman terms.

back to back a stock ecu vs a syvecs for example.

syvecs will run more power and more timing, fact over a stock ecu, much safer from any areas where a stock ecu will be on the edge and have to pulll things back to make it safe, syvecs you can go past that and still make it safe, in fact more safer with its pulling timing back. A whole list of other features, full wideband control where it actually logs it in ecu and will adjust to suit.

point being, both ecu will run whatever you want to achieve or less than the other etc, but ultimately you will gain a lot more with an aftermarket ecu, so no, it's not something you NEED. It's something you 'choose' over the other!
My version was the Layman term Busta Lol...but I totally agree with you.^^^^.SJ.
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Old 26 October 2018, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stonejedi View Post
My version was the Layman term Busta Lol...but I totally agree with you.^^^^.SJ.
hahaha, I didn't even read your post before i posted, was on phone.
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Old 27 October 2018, 08:34 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy View Post
Meaning upgrades

the parts I removed were working just fine as I sold them on ,, the vf48 I sold made nearly 400hp , same with the injectors ,,, the intercooler sold cheap as its only a sti one ,,,, so I really don't get the point your trying to make ???

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Old 27 October 2018, 08:44 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post
Lol, I'll give an example in layman terms.

back to back a stock ecu vs a syvecs for example.

syvecs will run more power and more timing, fact over a stock ecu, much safer from any areas where a stock ecu will be on the edge and have to pulll things back to make it safe, syvecs you can go past that and still make it safe, in fact more safer with its pulling timing back. A whole list of other features, full wideband control where it actually logs it in ecu and will adjust to suit.

point being, both ecu will run whatever you want to achieve or less than the other etc, but ultimately you will gain a lot more with an aftermarket ecu, so no, it's not something you NEED. It's something you 'choose' over the other!

this is my point exactly ,, there is a difference between necessary and beneficial ,,, I didn't say it wouldn't benefit ,, I said it wasn't NEEDED now for my daily road car and from what I can gather the hawk and hatch ecu is much more tunable than the earlier ones ,,, can even get antilag on the original one now lol

back when I first got the car I did look into it but back then they didn't run the SI drive and I was hearing they were having problems with the alarms on the hatchbacks so this pushed me towards seeing how far the original could go as this kept everything original and easy to work with ,,, I know since then they have sorted this out but as has been said many times if its working well then there isn't a NEED to do it right now

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Old 27 October 2018, 10:33 AM
  #67  
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Think you can add racerom to hawkecu. Was told a while ago the the hawk ECU Is pretty good. Personal choice I'd say ..
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Old 27 October 2018, 11:35 AM
  #68  
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This is a bit off topic, but with regards to the shutting the car off when low oil pressure:

I wonder if there would be a market for something that cuts the ignition when low oil pressure is encountered... It wouldnt be difficult to implement something that lets the ignition be on before/when cranking, but turns it off once oil pressure "has been seen"... Then cheap skates like myself could potentially benefit from it
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Old 27 October 2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
This is a bit off topic, but with regards to the shutting the car off when low oil pressure:

I wonder if there would be a market for something that cuts the ignition when low oil pressure is encountered... It wouldnt be difficult to implement something that lets the ignition be on before/when cranking, but turns it off once oil pressure "has been seen"... Then cheap skates like myself could potentially benefit from it
Rover SD1's had that system on them in the late 70's, it was a nightmare when they were a few years old, most were bypassed, as they never would start, & would cut out at random.
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Old 27 October 2018, 03:09 PM
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Ah, that's a shame... Maybe with electronics today it'd be more reliable, but yes you'd definitely need to design in some kind of manual override.
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Old 28 October 2018, 05:53 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
This is a bit off topic, but with regards to the shutting the car off when low oil pressure:

I wonder if there would be a market for something that cuts the ignition when low oil pressure is encountered... It wouldnt be difficult to implement something that lets the ignition be on before/when cranking, but turns it off once oil pressure "has been seen"... Then cheap skates like myself could potentially benefit from it
such a thing already exists to work with the cobb accessport
But for fuel pressure. Id bet theres one for oil.
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Old 28 October 2018, 06:50 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
This is a bit off topic, but with regards to the shutting the car off when low oil pressure:

I wonder if there would be a market for something that cuts the ignition when low oil pressure is encountered... It wouldnt be difficult to implement something that lets the ignition be on before/when cranking, but turns it off once oil pressure "has been seen"... Then cheap skates like myself could potentially benefit from it
All the above in Syvecs.
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Old 28 October 2018, 07:00 PM
  #73  
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That’s why I have one at home ready to go on

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Old 28 October 2018, 07:20 PM
  #74  
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Hence aftermarket ecu can set what you like
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Old 28 October 2018, 08:37 PM
  #75  
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Sure, but for that you need a syvecs (or similar).

I'm talking about a stand alone device that works with any ECU (or something that will cut the ignition, totally separately from the ECU).

The number of people running syvecs Vs the ones that suffer from oil pressure issues on eg track is probably really quite small, and if a (for example) 40-50 quid device could do something similar to the syvecs in this particular area, it night might be of benefit.

Also, it would work on almost any car due to being stand alone.

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Old 29 October 2018, 12:48 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
Sure, but for that you need a syvecs (or similar).

I'm talking about a stand alone device that works with any ECU (or something that will cut the ignition, totally separately from the ECU).

The number of people running syvecs Vs the ones that suffer from oil pressure issues on eg track is probably really quite small, and if a (for example) 40-50 quid device could do something similar to the syvecs in this particular area, it night might be of benefit.

Also, it would work on almost any car due to being stand alone.
Cobb accessport is for stock ecu

have a look. IAG were selling the fuel.pressure ones plug into regulator.

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Old 29 October 2018, 09:53 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy View Post
Cobb accessport is for stock ecu

have a look. IAG were selling the fuel.pressure ones plug into regulator.
Interesting - I've had a quick look and it looks as if the Cobb is just monitoring (I might be wrong), which is definitely also worthwhile.
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Old 29 October 2018, 10:58 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
Interesting - I've had a quick look and it looks as if the Cobb is just monitoring (I might be wrong), which is definitely also worthwhile.

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Old 29 October 2018, 12:10 PM
  #79  
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Oh sweet, good find
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Old 09 November 2018, 03:14 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post
Lol, I'll give an example in layman terms.

back to back a stock ecu vs a syvecs for example.

syvecs will run more power and more timing, fact over a stock ecu, much safer from any areas where a stock ecu will be on the edge and have to pulll things back to make it safe, syvecs you can go past that and still make it safe, in fact more safer with its pulling timing back. A whole list of other features, full wideband control where it actually logs it in ecu and will adjust to suit.

point being, both ecu will run whatever you want to achieve or less than the other etc, but ultimately you will gain a lot more with an aftermarket ecu, so no, it's not something you NEED. It's something you 'choose' over the other!
Sorry just read this and thought WTF, I'm sorry but you're talking utter tosh and I'm surprised no-one else in the know hasn't jumped on this.
An engines ability to take or not take ignition timing is not limited by it's ecu. It is limited by the engines compression ratio, the amount of boost you wish to run and the fuel type you choose among other things.
The same engine mapped to run the same ignition and boost and AFRs will produce very similar power figures on most ecus. Dependant on the ROM used the Subaru OE ecu will self learn to get the best out of it's available ignition timing where the Syvecs, Link, Alcatek or any of the other current aftermarket ecus won't.
Plenty of guys in the States running OE ecus on 8 second cars making over 1000bhp.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for aftermarket ecus selling and mapping just about all of them and I love the ease of live tuning, but don't think you should be telling people things that aren't factually correct.
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Old 09 November 2018, 03:53 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by MartynJ View Post
Sorry just read this and thought WTF, I'm sorry but you're talking utter tosh and I'm surprised no-one else in the know hasn't jumped on this.
An engines ability to take or not take ignition timing is not limited by it's ecu. It is limited by the engines compression ratio, the amount of boost you wish to run and the fuel type you choose among other things.
The same engine mapped to run the same ignition and boost and AFRs will produce very similar power figures on most ecus. Dependant on the ROM used the Subaru OE ecu will self learn to get the best out of it's available ignition timing where the Syvecs, Link, Alcatek or any of the other current aftermarket ecus won't.
Plenty of guys in the States running OE ecus on 8 second cars making over 1000bhp.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for aftermarket ecus selling and mapping just about all of them and I love the ease of live tuning, but don't think you should be telling people things that aren't factually correct.
These cars have alot of external sensors and safety's wired in to the stock ecu too tho do they not although it would still work without them true.

Think they mostly all use Cobb & do they not run proper wideband fueling too,

Do they aftermarket ECU not have better knock control and allow you to run closer to limit ? although id guess any knock at those pressures will result in a frown.

Have you any experience with those COBB accessports on our cars over here ? always liked the ease of use that comes with those.

https://www.cobbtuning.com/highest-h...u-of-all-time/

How much different are those 2017 ECU to say the Hawkeye ones ?

You say same engine same boost,afr & timing then ecu wont affect power too much,

But would it not control boost & afr better on say a kitted out syvecs, which could result in more timing being added safely, resulting in more power ?

You're the expert & prob tuned more engines than i've seen pictures of, how far have you gone with a stock ecu ?

Out of curiosity does anyone else know of any serious cars running oem ECU here in the UK ?
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Old 09 November 2018, 05:27 PM
  #82  
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Well best get myself a stock ecu unmapped as it will self learn, so no need to worry, even mickey is running a self learnt ecu for years
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Old 09 November 2018, 05:31 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy View Post
These cars have alot of external sensors and safety's wired in to the stock ecu too tho do they not although it would still work without them true.

Think they mostly all use Cobb & do they not run proper wideband fueling too,

Do they aftermarket ECU not have better knock control and allow you to run closer to limit ? although id guess any knock at those pressures will result in a frown.

Have you any experience with those COBB accessports on our cars over here ? always liked the ease of use that comes with those.

https://www.cobbtuning.com/highest-h...u-of-all-time/

How much different are those 2017 ECU to say the Hawkeye ones ?

You say same engine same boost,afr & timing then ecu wont affect power too much,

But would it not control boost & afr better on say a kitted out syvecs, which could result in more timing being added safely, resulting in more power ?

You're the expert & prob tuned more engines than i've seen pictures of, how far have you gone with a stock ecu ?

Out of curiosity does anyone else know of any serious cars running oem ECU here in the UK ?
In answer to your questions, the new cars ecus are very different to the Hawkeye unit and lend themselves very well to tuning from what I've seen abroad. We haven't tuned anything post 2014 yet ourselves but I believe with the new Racerom and or Cobb Access Port Flex Fuel is an option on them.
The knock control on the OE 2001 on ecus used properly is both effective and very safe and as I mentioned earlier is actually self learning on anything but the Group N or Carberry Rom files. The boost control likewise, it's as good as any after market ecu control within it's design strategy. Yes having closed loop wideband fueling is a handy safety feature long term, but again won't actually net you any more power as mixture is either correct or it isn't.
We mapped a stock engined stock ecu 2004 STi to in excess of 500hp that the owner did a Time Attack event in at Brands Hatch during which he completed 84 laps, no issues bar a broken CV joint lol.
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Old 09 November 2018, 05:39 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post
Well best get myself a stock ecu unmapped as it will self learn, so no need to worry, even mickey is running a self learnt ecu for years
You've missed what I'm saying somewhat.
I didn't say the OE ecu will self learn every mod you fit to the car meaning no need for a map, what I said was the OE Subaru ecu has actively learning knock control.
Put simply it has it's base ignition map and a correction map that it attempts to add as much of as it can till it detects knock and then learns what it can get away with and what it can't so as not to be constantly running too much or too little ignition advance. It still requires that the correct numbers be in the boxes hence where the mapper comes in.

Last edited by MartynJ; 09 November 2018 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09 November 2018, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MartynJ View Post
In answer to your questions, the new cars ecus are very different to the Hawkeye unit and lend themselves very well to tuning from what I've seen abroad. We haven't tuned anything post 2014 yet ourselves but I believe with the new Racerom and or Cobb Access Port Flex Fuel is an option on them.
The knock control on the OE 2001 on ecus used properly is both effective and very safe and as I mentioned earlier is actually self learning on anything but the Group N or Carberry Rom files. The boost control likewise, it's as good as any after market ecu control within it's design strategy. Yes having closed loop wideband fueling is a handy safety feature long term, but again won't actually net you any more power as mixture is either correct or it isn't.
We mapped a stock engined stock ecu 2004 STi to in excess of 500hp that the owner did a Time Attack event in at Brands Hatch during which he completed 84 laps, no issues bar a broken CV joint lol.
What about those accessports over here ? They just don't seam popular yet over the pond they love them,

Have you worked with any of those before ?

Think the flex fuel is even possible on the older carberry ROM for bugeyes too, with some work i've read

I also thought that Gucci ECU you could map each gear specifically which is even more of a benefit on those big *** turbo cars that rev faster than they spool in early gears,

Clearly this is nothing you don't know already, just putting it out there.
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Old 09 November 2018, 05:57 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy View Post
What about those accessports over here ? They just don't seam popular yet over the pond they love them,

Have you worked with any of those before ?

Think the flex fuel is even possible on the older carberry ROM for bugeyes too, with some work i've read

I also thought that Gucci ECU you could map each gear specifically which is even more of a benefit on those big *** turbo cars that rev faster than they spool in early gears,
Clearly this is nothing you don't know already, just putting it out there.
You don't even need a Gucci ecu for that as the OE ecu on certain MYs is also capable of per gear boost control, per gear ignition compensations and per gear fueling compensations. Like I said I'm a big fan of the aftermarket arena with Link being our main choice of late, but the comments I originally read were just plain wrong.

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Old 09 November 2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MartynJ View Post
You've missed what I'm saying somewhat.
I didn't say the OE ecu will self learn every mod you fit to the car meaning no need for a map, what I said was the OE Subaru ecu has actively learning knock control.
Put simply it has it's base ignition map and a correction map that it attempts to add as much of as it can till it detects knock and then learns what it can get away with and what it can't so as not to be constantly running too much or too little ignition advance. It still requires that the correct numbers be in the boxes hence where the mapper comes in.
i think you also missed what i was saying
back to back what would you rarther have? A stock ecu or a aftermarket ecu? You would choose aftermarket everytime as it will be much better in most aspects and even you know that, much more safety margins allowing ecu to be mapped much better.
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Old 09 November 2018, 07:45 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post

i think you also missed what i was saying
back to back what would you rarther have? A stock ecu or a aftermarket ecu? You would choose aftermarket everytime as it will be much better in most aspects and even you know that, much more safety margins allowing ecu to be mapped much better.

exactly
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Old 10 November 2018, 08:53 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post

i think you also missed what i was saying
back to back what would you rarther have? A stock ecu or a aftermarket ecu? You would choose aftermarket everytime as it will be much better in most aspects and even you know that, much more safety margins allowing ecu to be mapped much better.
In most cases that isn't my choice to make, it's the customers and to be fair that's still not relevant to the point I was making. You said you can run more more ignition advance with a Syvecs than you can on a stock ecu, I disagreed and gave the reasons why your statement was incorrect.
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Old 10 November 2018, 07:28 PM
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thanks martyn for clearing things up and confirming what I already knew about my OE ECU lol ,, shame some of the other listen to each other more than the facts as it would prob save them a few quid in the long run lol
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