Yes there is, the car still drives, steers and stops even if the entertainment or screen system fails.

You can even soft reset whilst still driving and no driving functions are interrupted

 

Not the latest version hardware. I paid a reduced upgrade price too by waiting for a special offer. FSD cost alot more now

 

Legacy manufacturers are always doing updates, trouble is you have take it back to the stealers.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...arging-network
Just highlighting the lack of charging infrastructure, plus the issue with varying charging technologies, and keeping up with rapidly changing battery improvements.

 

True to a certain extent, many other manufacturers are also capable of pushing updates OTA, but in the case of Tesla, they are pushing regular updates that have not been fully tested and using their customers as beta testers. They are literally treating a car in exactly the same way as app developers for Android or Apple, but if an app on your phone crashes you just get a bit annoyed, but if the software in your car crashes, people could die!

Another major issue with Tesla is the lack of partitioning of safety critical and non-safety critical systems. You don't want a failure in the audio system affecting the functionality of the steering (which is a steer by wire system in Teslas).

There is a general problem in the Auto industry that their System & Software safety standards were conceived for ECUs and ABS systems - Critical systems yes, but the failure effects are generally not an instant crash and death as a direct result of system failure. As more and more critical controls are being performed by computer systems, the Auto industry standards are long overdue a refresh to meet the current safety requirements (a process that I believe is currently being done). The auto industry is also self regulating in this aspect, which means their systems and software are not required to be independently certified before release. The traditional manufacturers do however take software testing and verification very seriously though and despite no legal requirement to do so, still do a very good job at ensuring the safety of their systems.

This effort of course costs time and money, which is why manufacturers don't tend to push updates every few months and generally only do so to fix major problems. A flip side with the need to fix bugs is the probability that by fixing a bug you inadvertently introduce a new bug. So there is a risk involved with performing updates which also has to be evaluated when making any changes. For this reason, it is often better to leave a minor bug in the system than to fix it. There are very clever people around who do the calculations of the risk involved of introducing new bugs which could be worse vs the benefits of fixing existing bugs. There are also cost/benefit analysis performed and only after that will a decision be taken on the merits of fixing any bugs. Once you have fixed the bug in the code, then you need to go though the whole testing and verification of not only the system you have fixed, but also the dependencies of all other interfacing systems. Testing will be performed in the labs, on subsystem rigs and also the test vehicles, involving many hundreds of man-hours, before finally releasing to the customer vehicles.

Tesla on the other hand, rely on staged OTA rollouts to customers waiting for feedback before stopping the rollout if there is a problem or pushing the update to an increasing number of vehicles. Of course there is a huge risk with Tesla doing this, that other manufacturers will start doing the same in an effort to compete. Yes, it will drive innovation, but almost certainly at the cost of safety and reliability. This is why the industry needs a proper certification authority which requires manufacturers to have their software independently certified before it can be pushed to a customer vehicle. As systems become more directly safety relevant, such as Teslas Autopilot, then the need for this becomes ever more acute!

Regardless of the EV argument, the way that Tesla is operating is a big no-no for me and I won't go near one, however good they are! As I said, most people are blissfully unaware of the measures taken by companies to develop safety critical systems and software - as you might gather from this post, I am certainly not one of those people! If you have any insight into what *SHOULD* be involved in updating safety critical software, there are very big alarm bells going off if they can continually push updates, several times a year for the life of a vehicle!

 

Tesla has separate systems, by the fact owners have reported losing infotainment system amd car continues driving.

Tesla rarely pull an update, I must have had more than two dosen in updates, from major system updates to tiny ones with small incremental changes. In all these updates I have never had the car revert to a previous setting. Sure sometimes an update needs a tiny bug fix but nothing critical, more like certain phones dont work on Bluetooth

All from my drive or garage, Ive even gone shopping and let car update in the carpark ready for when I return

 

Ignorance is bliss!

 

By your lack of research, it certainly is

 

 

Answer this question

How does a Tesla continue to drive normally when a soft reset of infotainment/navigation is initiated whilst driving?

 

You have simply no understanding on the subject!
Does it really not concern you that there are cases of the "infotainment" system restarting during driving? How many other cars do you know where that happens?
And the idea that they can push an update and then have to pull it again is just absurd in a car, where failures often result in death!

You're trying to argue against a expert in the field of safety critical systems based on snippets of information you've found on the internet simply because you don't want to admit that Tesla isn't a perfect company! What they have achieved is very impressive, but a finished and safe product it is not! They have been lucky that nothing catastrophic has happened so far and have used very good marketing to deflect the serious problems they have had, not least with many fires and many crashes caused by the autopilot (yeah, it was the drivers fault for not paying enough attention!).

When it comes to safety system, the public a completely unaware of what is involved, which in the most case is good so, otherwise people would probably never leave their homes! The problem is, regular software updates with new features has a material value to Joe public, while in comparison a company taking years to assure the safety of any changes, is only perceived by the public as being slow and lacking innovation and is therefore not valued.

 

You have a made a statement as an so called expert saying the infotainment is linked to the critical driving systems in Teslas.

I've reset my infotainment system whilst driving, has have others. I can say with authority that they are not connected, because of real life testing.

Your blatant ignorant bias is clear. I suspect from your username, you work in the auto industry? You weren't involved in the BMW alarm, keyfob design were you?, where thieves were easily able to bypass and steal hundreds of BMW cars

 

I didn't specifically say the infotainment system was linked to critical driving functions, I only stated a lack of adequate partitioning between critical and non critical systems then gave a random example that people could associate with rather than a specific case! I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear enough! As ever, you try and dismiss the much more important points by focusing on an insignificant detail and interpreting poetic licence as literal fact!

You don't know who I work for or exactly what I do and I'm not going to share that with you. Feel free to guess and try and belittle me, but ultimately you only make yourself look stupid! As for blatant bias, I'm not the one who's invested a lot of money buying two Teslas. I can understand that you don't want to accept that you've invested big money in a flawed product, but you are in no position to label me as biased!

watch Tesla with great interest, as I said above, what they have achieved is very impressive and I understand why people become big fans, but I always look at all aspects of things and not just the bells and whistles that are designed to distract you from the less positive stuff! The bigger the bells and whistles, then the more skeptical I become and Tesla doesn't half make a racket with its massive bells and whistles! Enjoy you car, you like to ignore anything I say anyway, but rest assured I won't be joining the Tesla owners club (or even going for a ride in one) any time soon, although you never know what might happen in the future

 

I believe someone posted that it takes 50,000 miles to offset carbon from an EV.

I have mentioned a few times, big anti EV companies are working with misinformation and lies to portray EV tech in a bad light
They have been found out
​​​​​​AstonMartin "Astongate"
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-vehicle-study

 

More on the negative PR from likes of Toyota etc

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...sil-fuel-hype/

 

If you're going to build a EV charging point into your house, what type do you choose? Are there numerous options?

 

Type 2 mennekes socketed lead is the standard. It can be either tethered or separate lead. I have a Chargemaster with separate 10 metre lead to be able to connect to my cars.

They are mostly single phase 7kWatt to homes but you can get 3 phase upto 22kWatt mostly 11kW. though. if your house has 3 phase or decide to get it.

Brands common are chargemaster, podpoint, Rolec, Zappi or even Tesla charger. There are others too

Ideally you need a spare fuse on the consumer unit and 80A minimum fuse before the electric meter. If you have 60A you can ask your regional DNO to upgrade the fuse. The company will normally install a 32A breaker in your consumer unit. It will be tested, you will receive building regulations approval for the install.

If you have no spare fuse the installation will involve tee-ing off from the outside meter tails to the point where you want the charger point
Installation can be free or up to £1500 if you decide to get one installed without taking the grant available

 

That’s the straight fwd bit .

How would you be allowed to drape the lead across the pavement ?

- lamp posts are only every 30m

 

I posted about mileage offset for an EV. The figures ranged from 30 to 70k depending on source of electric.

The figures quoted where from an auto car interview with the boss of polestar. A company that makes EV's, so make of that what you will.

 

Not strictly true. Any OBD equipment with J2534 pass-thru can upload ECU software/updates.

The problem is the cost to access the software, be it one off or subscription access.

 

Aston were going to make an EV, but ditched it. Honda's head has been said to be against EV, even though they released an EV. Bosch are major player in engine fuel management systems. Toyota are invested in hydrogen propulsion

There are lots of virtue signalling ICE manufacturers trying to undermine the EV revolution to perpetuate the fossil fuel brigade.

Make of that what you will

 

It would all be new build, not off grid, but largely reliant on solar, turbine and batteries.

 

If there is 3 phase nearby, I would certainly go for it. Then power concerns are eliminated for the future

 

In Andy's defence the electric car updates are far better than your petrol/diesel cars of today considering the amount of tech piled in. Some newer petrol/diesel cars are brilliant off the line and I know a few that have had software updates, normally happens when they go in for a service.

Think of it as your android phone, you have OTA updates pushed out by manufactures, the whole experience is far more intuitive. Another thing is petrol/diesel cars are more mechanical while your electric car is going to be software based just like a phone.

 

All the manufacturers above produce ice cars.
Some of them produce ev's, but they are not putting all their eggs in one basket.

The links you provided off the back of your comment that someone on here mentioned an ev has to travel around 50k to offset the carbon used to produce them, do not include the manufacturer that I took the figures from.

The manufacturer that I posted the head of the company stating those figures happens to be a company that solely produce EV's. There is no hidden agenda or purpose for him to twist those figures.

 

If you buy electric from renewable or have solar for charging your car, payback (CO2) is two years or less at around 7500 miles per year for a average EV.

If you do mileage that I do payback is absolutely minimal

 

The CO2 payback varies greatly depending on the size of the vehicle, the mileage done in the vehicle and the energy mix used to charge the vehicle.

While those with a vested interest against EVs will certainly overstate the payback time, those with a vested interest for EVs will equally understate the payback time, the truth will always be somewhere in the middle!

The articles you posted also say nothing about the CO2 costs in vehicle scrapping which are also higher for EVs or the fact that an EV is more or less scrap after 7 years as it makes little sense to replace the batteries compared to just buying a new car, while an ICE car will run for many years more than that. The other gaping floor in their arguments is that not all environmental damage is CO2 and climate change and the battery production and disposal (even with recycling) is extremely damaging to the environment in addition to the CO2 costs.

Ultimately, we really need to change our lifestyles to reduce our dependence on cars and travelling. Corona virus has probably done more to fight climate change this year than everyone switching to EVs and carrying on as normal will ever do!

 

It is becoming clear that batteries aren't being scrapped after 7 years, firms are popping up offering cell or brick section replacement. It's usually just a cell or brick that goes down, not the whole battery pack.

I posted a video of a early Nissan Leaf having just a pack replacement costing only £500 to repair.

More and more companies will spring up to fill the denand of battery repair in the next 10 years.

A negative view point,

where there are lots of vehicles now with many hundreds of thousands of miles indicating battery life can be vastly greater than the 8 year warranty.

The word scrapped again is a disingenuous word, where recycled is far more appropriate

 

Not really, you'll find that it was Continental (formerly Siemens/VDO) who put all their eggs in that basket.

Bosch invests in manufacturing and design of ALL vehicle components that are not specific to any area. It keeps its fingers in all of the pies. Hence why they own so many patents in so many areas...at present that focus is on autonomous vehicle systems. Their fuel systems design rights was cut loose years ago.

 

Sure, in the beginning people will just replace a single battery pack when needed, but how many packs will people replace at £500 a pop over a couple of years before they decide its not worth it any more! Once the reality of battery pack replacements is understood better by the public, then I can imagine scrapping would be the preferred option, or second hand prices will be zero. The only way for the industry to avoid that is to insist on a battery rental program where you pay a monthly subscription and batteries will be swapped as needed at no additional cost. Some manufacturers are already doing this!

Scrapping an recycling are different things, as is upcycling. At the moment, there is no capacity in the industry to recycle the dead batteries. Upcycling is a promising option to extend the battery life for other purposes, but ultimately at some point the battery can't be used and has to be disposed of. As long as recycling is not available, then the only other option is scrapping (land-fill!).