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Its rubbish, internal combustion design has reached the end of the road. All the design changes have been in adding filtration, exhaust gas recirculation trying to reduce emissions.
Since F1 relaxed the engine development regulations, there have been huge advancements in ICE efficiency. A prime example being Mercedes introduction of a pre ignition chamber creating a more controlled and efficient fuel burn. There is plenty of room left for efficiency improvements in the ICE and the rate of improvement is still higher that that of battery technology!
EVs are just hype, once the reality of the 5-10 year battery life bites the second hand owners, the enthusiasm for EVs will soon die and then we can start looking for a real alternative to buying oil!
Since F1 relaxed the engine development regulations, there have been huge advancements in ICE efficiency. A prime example being Mercedes introduction of a pre ignition chamber creating a more controlled and efficient fuel burn. There is plenty of room left for efficiency improvements in the ICE and the rate of improvement is still higher that that of battery technology!
EVs are just hype, once the reality of the 5-10 year battery life bites the second hand owners, the enthusiasm for EVs will soon die and then we can start looking for a real alternative to buying oil!
And yet it still burns fossil fuel, producing pollution every where it moves.
In 5-10 years the vast majority of us will be driving EVs. If the industry hasn't sorted recycling of batteries, then there will be massive problems. ICE production will have ceased pretty much. Tesla is talking about million mile battery longevity, whether they achieve this or not, it shows commitment to develop battery tech. Others will have to follow soon and with a decent network like Tesla to accommodate the demand which is growing. Even I see this now in the few months of Tesla ownership. Once the multi charging bays were occupied by one or two vehicles, now I see half full bays regularly. More bays will be installed barring ICE from parking, adding to the wave against ICE vehicles. Petrol stations will install charge points removing pumps. Change is coming.
Ive just read there has been 325,000 pre orders for the Model 3 in the UK since May. I didn't realize it was that much I thought tens of thousands. Bloody hell that is alot!
Iv seen half dozen these models personally maybe I don't live posh enough location
Im not sure thats right 500,000 vin registrations in the USA, Vin sequence not totally in line with production numbers. Tesla currently making 6000 per week. I reckon 325k pre orders is right.
Upto yesterday Id seen about a dozen around the country. On the way home not too far from home, I saw three model S and two model X. The model 3 has only been on the road since July in the UK. On top of the 130+ that left London yesterday, there were several transporters loaded up to go to other branches around the country. 2000 model 3 were handed over in August in the UK-making it third best seller that month.
It will be interesting to see if delivery numbers increase month on month or are capped by delivery restrictions
Norway is leading the way with Model 3 number one by huge margin
Tesla, with the model 3 is certainly reaching critical mass and picking up momentum.
So we should get rid of the current better option in the hope the next thing will work in 10 years time? That's very very stupid and irresponsible.
EV is not ready to be adopted, simple as. Its inefficient, pollutive and expensive
I really don't understand your position on this at all. You admitted that EV is the way to go but then say it is not ready to be adopted! How can it improve without the investment that only consumer adoption can provide?!??!
The same thing happened when we moved from CRT to LCD/Plasma/OLED screens, hugely expensive crap inefficient TVs, but if if no one had bought them in increasing numbers, we would still be watching reruns of I love Lucy on ****ty old things!
Ive a confession, I misheard what my wife told me about the Tesla 3 model delivery yesterday. She corrected me this morning 230 were handed over!
We met a fella some 50 miles away who had picked up his model 3 yesterday too. He was trying out the supercharger, I was inspecting the tow bar connection .
This American walked upto both of us and said the '3' were hugely popular in the States
Could they not have made them look a lot better, they're all ugly, dull, boring looking things.
The Roadster looks alright, but comes with a huge price tag.
Could they not have made them look a lot better, they're all ugly, dull, boring looking things.
The Roadster looks alright, but comes with a huge price tag.
Model 3 is a good looking car as is the S model. Suppose if you're against the idea,taints opinion
Model 3 is a good looking car as is the S model. Suppose if you're against the idea,taints opinion
I wouldn't say I was against the idea as such, the idea of a battery car is just not quite ready yet, yes, it might work well for the first owner.
But buying one second/third hand and you inherit a heap of shyte with a battery that needs charging all the time, or worse still, needs replaced.
All the Tesla range look very similar, and I'm sorry if it offends, they are all pig ugly and dull looking with the exception I already stated..
I really don't understand your position on this at all. You admitted that EV is the way to go but then say it is not ready to be adopted! How can it improve without the investment that only consumer adoption can provide?!??!
The same thing happened when we moved from CRT to LCD/Plasma/OLED screens, hugely expensive crap inefficient TVs, but if if no one had bought them in increasing numbers, we would still be watching reruns of I love Lucy on ****ty old things!
Do i agree EV will take over? yes i do, although i could be wrong if they cant get the tech to work. An OLED TV isn't even close to a comparison.
So what happens if we change and then in 10 years they havn't sorted it and EV has made things worse? or 20 years, or 30 years? so we rip the planet apart now and leave it to the next generation.
Short version, as i have said several times, EV technology is not ready to go full scale right now. If you want to try to justify what your doing go ahead, but your basing it on false statements, bad information and hopes of tech development that will only come after the working life of your car.
So why get an EV now when you know its worse the an ICE? It is unlikley
So what happens if we change and then in 10 years they havn't sorted it and EV has made things worse? or 20 years, or 30 years? so we rip the planet apart now and leave it to the next generation.
You could say that about everything, The industrial revolution, first cars compared horse and cart, steam train v diesel then electric.
The cars are sorted, they go far enough now. Its just the mentality of the way you refuel the vehicle. Adjustment to habits, but it isnt really an insurmountable situation. Humans adapt very well, thats is what's made us top of the chain.
So what happens if we change and then in 10 years they havn't sorted it and EV has made things worse? or 20 years, or 30 years? so we rip the planet apart now and leave it to the next generation.
You could say that about everything, The industrial revolution, first cars compared horse and cart, steam train v diesel then electric.
The cars are sorted, they go far enough now. Its just the mentality of the way you refuel the vehicle. Adjustment to habits, but it isnt really an insurmountable situation. Humans adapt very well, thats is what's made us top of the chain.
wow you really are going all out to convince yourself arnt you, but i guess as long as its not on your doorstep its no issue. they are woefull.
you mean like diesel, that they are now saying is really bad?
Adjustment to habbits like, guess you'll get your fire engine when its finished charging then,,,,,
So what happens if we change and then in 10 years they havn't sorted it and EV has made things worse? or 20 years, or 30 years? so we rip the planet apart now and leave it to the next generation.
You could say that about everything, The industrial revolution, first cars compared horse and cart, steam train v diesel then electric.
The cars are sorted, they go far enough now. Its just the mentality of the way you refuel the vehicle. Adjustment to habits, but it isnt really an insurmountable situation. Humans adapt very well, thats is what's made us top of the chain.
They go far enough now - They might go far enough for the first owner, but second hand/third hand owners haven't got a chance with them, as the battery will be done
They go far enough now - They might go far enough for the first owner, but second hand/third hand owners haven't got a chance with them, as the battery will be done
I can see battery replacement being available, or used prices will be extremely poor. Currently there is about 10-15% drop in range over the life of the vehicle 8 year battery warranty
Although no different to plugging in at home if its using the national grid which in turn still burns fossil fuels (or any other charge point at that).
Last edited by ALi-B; 26 September 2019 at 03:32 PM.
Although no different to plugging in at home if its using the national grid which in turn still burns fossil fuels (or any other charge point at that).
In fairness, the efficiency of the national grid is slightly better than a diesel generator and a reasonable amount of electricity in the national grid comes from nuclear power or renewables with no CO2 emissions!
I've seen a similar picture with a breakdown truck with a generator on a trailer for charging EV's.
It also raises an interesting question in Germany - It's illegal to run out of fuel on the autobahn, presumably this rule also applies for EVs running out of juice! In some rural areas, the distance between autobahn exits can be greater than the range of some of the current EVs, often also without a filling station!
In fairness, the efficiency of the national grid is slightly better than a diesel generator and a reasonable amount of electricity in the national grid comes from nuclear power or renewables with no CO2 emissions!
I've seen a similar picture with a breakdown truck with a generator on a trailer for charging EV's.
It also raises an interesting question in Germany - It's illegal to run out of fuel on the autobahn, presumably this rule also applies for EVs running out of juice! In some rural areas, the distance between autobahn exits can be greater than the range of some of the current EVs, often also without a filling station!
Being honest here I do contest some of the actual overall efficiency figures, from fuel source to the end device (the car’s motor) via all the conversion and transmission processes in between. By this I mean (draws breath): fuel extraction/refining, transporting, burning, conversion loss of steam to the turbines, losses in the generators, losses in step up transformers, losses in the 400Kv network, losses in step down transformers, losses in local grid circuits and substation transformers, losses in charger/recifier, losses in charging the battery, losses in cumulative storage in the battery as it degrades, losses extract power from the battery, as well as the traction motor itself and any vehicle ancillaries.
I’ve yet to find a good resource or study that has properly broken this down each factor and actually tests and analyses actual real world efficiencies (not just small scale lab tests or reliance on third party data) to give a solid analytical conclusion with minimal assumptions to confirm the hypothesis, as well as comparison for like for like fossil fuels vehicles in British or the very least European applications.
As of yet I have tried and yet to find anything worthy of quoting . And I have because it was what I was into back in my uni days (I was doing a BEng in Electronic engineering before I had a ‘wobble’). I’m still heavily interested, hence my Lister CS diesel CHP ‘retirement’* project; I honestly do believe micro-generation and storage could be a better use of fuel than relying on grid-sourced power - even when assisted by PV.
And yes, it should be illegal to run out of range on the batteries, it’s bad enough people doing it with normal cars...same with running them out of oil or even screen wash People are regularly running out of fuel on the M5 J1 Contraflow...so much so there is a illuminated sign saying “check your fuel level” (powered by a diesel genset )...people still run out of fuel though
And yes, it should be illegal to run out of range on the batteries, it’s bad enough people doing it with normal cars...same with running them out of oil or even screen wash People are regularly running out of fuel on the M5 J1 Contraflow...so much so there is a illuminated sign saying “check your fuel level” (powered by a diesel genset )...people still run out of fuel though
That's is where Tesla have done a great job, with accurate battery range and user interface in the car that plans your route via the supercharger network, it informs you how much charge you will use and how long you will be stopping. Also at the start of each route it informs you what charge will be left if you did the return route too.
The problem is people will still ignore it...I’ve had to deal with cars where the instrument panel has been lit up like a christmas tree...and the driver ignored it until basically the car either refused to go faster than 20mph or stopped running altogether (like some models when they run out of adBlue ).
If it were really clever, the car would refuse to start the journey if it knew it couldn’t make it to the predicted destination.
Last edited by ALi-B; 26 September 2019 at 11:19 PM.
26 September 2019, 12:11 AM
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People are regularly running out of fuel on the M5 J1 Contraflow...so much so there is a illuminated sign saying “check your fuel level” (powered by a diesel genset 
)...people still run out of fuel though 