hamzi95

guys ignore my last post i went full retard.

i was checking barometric pressure(bar) and the reading was 2040bar not 2 bar.

turns out my manifold pressure was perfectly fine at -0.68 bar.

hamzi95

OK People im back, with a vf23, a FMIC and exedy pink box and lightweight flywheel, Yellow injectors and forge 008 with the red spring.

I also managed to get my hands on a basemap for my current turbo.

Much apologies for the past and my retarded clipped logs this one is unclipped and just to show the ridiculously slow spool.

i done some tweaking here and there and just been yoloing the AFR as my wideband is busted at the moment

Ive attach my latest map and my latest log.

I also think my boost cut is not working, as i tried to reproduce a boost cut by dropping the baro pressure on 1bar to 1 bar of boost, nothing happened. No cut.

I was then brave enough to rip off the vac pipe of the wg actuator and go for a spin but it was still just as laggy. i was scared to push past the 1.35-4 bar of boost that was induced but this was still achieved at roughly 3800-4000rpm (checked with my eyes)

my turbo up-pipe gasket are torqued to 30ftlb and i rechecked the easily accessable ones today morning

am i right to assume that my wastegate has failed?

Also, ive been trying to read all day about the turbo dynamics section but i cant find a good explanation on continuous over boost and underboost gains aswell as burst gains. can anyone kindly sort me out with an explanation or a relevant article! thanks.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

the boost control in ESL is very similar to the newage cars - which you can read about here:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1814.html

What gear are you doing your pulls in?
*edit*

also just looking at your log here, you say the turbo is laggy but you don't hit full throttle until 3950rpm and you have 1 bar at 4250 - try starting in 3rd at 3000rpm and give it full 100% throttle to see what results you get.

hamzi95

Hi yeh ive read that rom-raider thread but it kinda whizzes right past my head, i think im going about it the wrong way!

Yeh my logs are all done in gear 3 and i believe WOT translates to 85%; ill see if i have another log.

Looking around the net people are getting 1.4bar+ by 3400ish rpm and 1 bar by 3k.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

here's 1 bar at 3k on a VF23:
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1061674
On a newage WRX, in 5th gear the others are all around 3500ish for 1 bar and up and running by 4000rpm.

hamzi95

hey, this is weird.

When i was running my car without any vacuum hose attached to the actuator, i was getting even slower spool.

im pretty sure my throttle was mashed to the floor. im going to double check my tps values.

i believe that was 1.1 bar by 5100rpms if im correct

im holding boost, so it cant be a vacuum leak.
Id most likely hear the exhaust leak if it was that big :/

its either the turbo thats shot or the wastegate actuator is weak OR i have a masked exhaust leak somewhere :/

im voting for a bad wastegate actuator. Turbo dynamics have a genuine one for £18 so might just order that now.

any other ideas blud?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

so this log shows 1bar at 3800rpm but looks like on that run you were lifting the throttle as you approached boost (drops from 85 down to 77 throttle)

hamzi95

from my findings;

Just to clarify, this is the log where the wastegate actuator vac hose was disconnected.

hamzi95

ok so i managed to find a loose manifold stud on the headers, i threw in a longer bolt and ive know retorqued everything down.

I also brought a new wideband, so can you please have a look through and let me know if my margin of error is acceptable.

Im slightly rich low range, bang on targets in the midrange, then im leaning out in the top end with slight moments of accuracy.

a bit of guidance would be much appreciated so far ive.
checked manfiold torque.
replaced the dumpvalve with forge 008 recirc redspring.
cleaned out the wastegate solenoid.
replaced the old actuator with a new one.

the only thing i can point out mechanically is that there is lots of wastegate rattle/flutter, and there is lots of different noises coming from the turbo area, ranging from induction noise, to the recirc of the dump valve, a little flutter under 1 bar boost, and a slight screeching noise.

my next port of call is replacing the up-pipe gasket with a new one and getting new bolts and again torquing them down.

my turbo when i put it on had like no side to side play but very slight forward and backwars play, very little.

as the turbo is coming off, shall i just replace it ? i mean it can give me 1.55bar + if i hold off the duty 100% till 4k rpm. like 85% duty gives me only 1.15 bar top end, people have held 1.35 bar to redline with the vf23.

i think my turbo is fine personally. its gone alot less whiny with the new oil i put in, ive also changed to a ihi bb oil control bolt.

my next port of call would be to pull this bad boy off and replace the gasket and torque it down.

im leaning towards vac leak or exhaust leak.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

happy to take a look but it may help to upload the log file? Are you sure the screeching sound isn't the intake pipe not fully snug on the turbo and what do the a/f corrections look like?

hamzi95

Intake pipe was replaced with a new one, but anything is possible(turbo out job again anyway) , in terms of a/f correction i dont have my narrowband hooked up so im assuming ill have no correction.

Yeh bludgod, i thought i was missing something yday LOL yeh ill get that log up

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

your wideband should have a 0-1v output you can switch in to feed the ECU what it expects for closed loop corrections. It would be worth doing that for 50-100 miles of cruising and see what kind of corrections are built up. If there's a leak then it should be a little clearer to spot

hamzi95

yeh the aem uego xseries does not have a narrowband simulation so i have to use the old sensor which will be difficult as i only have 1 bung in this downpipe .

im thinking of buying a vac leak testor thingy which attaches to the air intake and pressurize from there. or find a local garage which can do it for me while im there

which reminds me, heres the datalog.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

the last run in that log where you get a little more boost, seems like you might be getting a spark blowout? AFR goes from 10.9 to 12 then back down to 10.8 again around 4300rpm.

Seems grand on the lower load runs where your boost is lower.

If it was me i'd start with 0 wgdc and slowly increase boost/monitor AFR's and tune the fuelling/timing as you add the boost in. You've also a little rich dip before 3000 as you start to spool up that could be worth investigating.

Smoke/pressure test would be a good job, especially if your hearing noises, just remember to cap off the intake breathers and make sure they can still vent out at the heads/crank as well as opening the oil filler and don't go too mad on filling it up with pressure.

hamzi95

i do have ngk pfr7bs and i did gap them to like .6 or something like that smaller. i was having issues on my old td04 and this was fixed by changing the coilpack and wires.

i can remove them and regap them possibly; thats just a quick little job.

i think the issue here is i am trying to tune out a mechanical issue but it just aint gonna happen 100%.

on cold start:
my idle is jumpy for the first 10-15 seconds then settles.
i can hear what i believe is wastage flutter
when i reach full boost i can hear my turbo go really loud, but before then there is a khhhrrrr noise which is either the wastegate or an vac/exhaust leak OR i could simply have a bad turbo.
I mean i can have a bash today on the car with some soapy water. ive also ordered a new silicone hose for the maf > air inlet as the current one has a air intake temperature sensor in it which seems quite loose, a problem waiting to happen.
my brakes feel hard when the car is in - vaccum and as soon as im on positive vaccum my pedal goes way soft.
potential bad brake booster/cylinder?

i mean i could go mafless for the learning experience but whats the point if i cant sort this maftune. its just about doing it 1 by 1 untill i find the problem!

this is what happens when you get a project car which had no MOT for 5 years !

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

right so - the cold starting may be aided by sticking the narrow band back in for a bit and letting it build up some corrections. The car left the factory with it for a reason so get the big 22mm spanner out and swap the standard one back in for an hour.

Next job, disable cl/ol corrections and go back to wideband. zero the WGDC min/max and log your boost/maf/o2 etc.
Is the boost fairly flat and steady?
Does the AFR seem nice and flat?
Are the MAF readings moving smoothly in line with the boost curve?

Once your satisfied all is well, add a flat 20% duty to the WGDC max table and repeat the logging. Has the boost increased any, is the AFR still flat, are the MAF readings smooth?

If your getting problems at even wastegate pressure then adding more boost on top will only make things worse so start there and work your way up. If you find it's blowing out spark at say 1.4bar then you have something else you can investigate later as it may be a separate issue.

hamzi95

makes perfect sense and a pointer in the right direction, thanks!

ok, as i want to remove the turbo and put new gaskets in it again. ill get a new bung wired in for the wideband. or do you recon i should hold off replacing the up-pipe gasket for now ?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

well i'd inspect it at least to see if there's a big dirty soot mark in on it to indicate a leak - if its bad, fix it up

hamzi95

This will require taking the turbo off correct?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

or a small mirror on a stick with some torches

hamzi95

have a small mirror with a torch built.in m8 how about that 😂😂😂😂.

ill see what i can whip up.

Or i can just get a new gasket on as the old one was reused. Didnt have studs to hamd at the time so couldnt put studs in the manifold and lastly i had to use nuts and bolts!

hamzi95

swapped a td05 and new gaskets all torqued down with a tq wrench this time.

in my latest log, i got bang on accurate actual afr vs target afr. none of the weird spiking. this was the td05 running on 1bar-ish.

Same issue as before rich at under 3k cruising. i went to put my stock o2 in 2 build some fuel trims and the ground wire snapped; so i gotta resolder/sort that out.

issue is the same; 90% wgdc and i cant go over 1.1bar ish boost.

I have a second-hand sourced 3 port solenoid in the mail, just incase my current one is weak (long shot :/).

Im also finding a stronger wastegate actuator (something like a mamba or kinugawa adjustable 1) and hopefully use a 1.2bar spring to get me my end goal boost targets which are:

1.5-6ish tapering to 1.3 bar redline.

lets see how it goes.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Havent read all the posts so ignore if already been answered

When i was running rich on cruise ( under 3k) my Injector scaling was out ( even tho it wasnt at high rpm) and also my Maf calibration needed tweaking.
Also, it shouldnt affect the trims but on mine it does, if i set my cruise area at 14.7 this is way too rich , if i disconnect the 02 sensor, my afr gauge reads something like 10 whilst cruising , so i have afr figures in the fuel table below 3k sstarting at 20 and averaging out around 16.5 ( im using MAF) with 02 connected the fuel corrections are not that severe, around 94`s.

i too have just ordered a piston style Mamba Actuator , will let you know if it helps with my inconsistant boost issues i was having

hamzi95

so i got my mamba actuator in haha, found a boostleak. i was hitting 1:1 AFRs till my new bosch sensor died on me again LOL
Bludgod ive had my closed loop fueling on a little, so ill check my fuel trims out soon.
Also hitting fuel cut, when hammering 1 into 2. so im gonna up my boost cut from 1.45 bar to 1.65. gonna also check my knock tables to see if ive been knocking, not too worried as i was getting no spikes from the knock sensor.

roughly around 1.3 bar boost at 28 ish degrees timing.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

What Mamba Actuator did you buy ?

I just bought this one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAMBA-Adj...53.m2749.l2649

But the one they sent me has the wrong arm on it , typical ! The eyelet is too small to fit onto the wastegate pin and also the arm is too long, he has sent me out another arm (the correct one hopefully)

what spring you using ?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

if your target is 1.3bar the .7 bar spring should be more than adequate. Even if your looking for 1.5/1.6 bar the .7 should do the job.

If your seeing spikes on sharp throttle transitions then check your hoses out (cheapy silicone hoses will swell under pressure causing a delay in wastegate response) and your spring preload. It's normal to see a little bit of a spike but it shouldn't be too massive unless the turbo is big (like a MD321 or something larger).

Experiment with flat wastegate duties as well so say flat 5/10/15/20/30% and see how your boost plot is looking and how it responds to spiking - it helps the ECU if your target boost values are kinda close to what your getting in the real world.

hamzi95

i fitted the 1.5bar spring which gave me a 1.3bar pressure on wg.
yeh my arm didnt fit properly but i managed to gew a mm of preload and throw some silicone in to tighten the gap.

hamzi95

with the stock actuator, i dont think i was holding more that 1.1bar (had an ic hose flying off, all fixed).

anyway with the current mamba 1.5 bar gate, the highest boost i seen was 1.38 bar on spool up in 4th, which i think is fine?

im hitting fuel cuts coming off roundabouts. so im gonna throw in the stock fuel pump sock.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

no somethings not right there, with a 1.5 bar spring you should get 1.5 bar boost unless it's escaping somewhere (either exhaust not making it into the turbo or turbo pressure escaping before it gets into the cylinder). Are you sure none of the other IC hoses need the clamps tightened or the exhaust isn't leaking at the headers/uppipe anywhere?

hamzi95

Mamba springs under read from what i read online. So if u want 1.3 bar u go 1 step up to 1.5 bar.

3 pott Boost solenoud has been replaced and vac lines checked over. Ic hoses really tight now.

Checked for exhaust leaks pre turbo on a ramp by blocking the muffler and gently revving and no nothing.

Fuel trims are all 1.00 bar 1 field which is saying 0.97