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Hi, ive recently purchased an ESL ecu secondhand, it was running mafless so i had to redo the fuel tables etc.
i have yellow injectors so i think i have the stock injector scale of 1.0 correct.
Now the mafscale i noticed was 22200, however on googling the query the orange maf (75 ecu has the orange maf if im correct) the correct scale for 22137.
however when i do this the car goes pig rich and the afr shoots down to 9-10 at idle with a fuel map figure of 15.6. everything is way off.
could it be possible that the whole maf calibration was changed previously? the MafV plotted against Random number tables?
i have a kn cone filter attached to the maf, so im aware this may cause scaling to be a little off. (this kn cone came with the orange maf that i purchased from the same seller of the ecu).
is it possible if someone could post me a basemap in which i can extract all the correct MAFV figures?
ESL facebook page refuses me support because i do not have the invoice number....
any help or a pointer in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.
i've read the ESL manual a few times over.
i have installed a aem uego and wired it upto the ESL, so this is where im getting my afr figures from.
I can't get to my laptop atm but if you look at my profile I have pictures in my album which show the maf settings for a 6s ECU which is a v3sti Orange maf.
Do you not have a gauge with your wideband? Just curious to why you're using the ESL data to read afr? I know it can be linked up to the ECU to read afrs but don't you have to convert the voltage readings into afr? I just use a standalone gauge so would be interested to know how accurate this is?
yeh i have a gauge, but its not safe to look at it whilst road tuning...i think...LOL.
aslong as u have it grounded correctly. its basically the same as the gauge, so just as accurate.
if you want, i can help you hook it up to the esl ?
and even better, if you have a wideband which can simulate narrowband u can compeltely toss ur old narrowband sensor. and when u wanna do tuning u can switch it back over to wideband mode.
pictures would be just as good as a base map! that would be awesome if you can.
Thanks for the offer,wiring is pretty straight forward but I never bothered,I have an innovate lc-2 so can datalog by plugging that into the laptop,works well for me.
You can just click on my profile and look at my albums,pics of maf data are on there,if you can't view then I can post them onto this thread.
Last edited by ossett2k2; 27 September 2017 at 01:59 PM.
Thanks for the offer,wiring is pretty straight forward but I never bothered,I have an innovate lc-2 so can datalog by plugging that into the laptop,works well for me.
You can just click on my profile and look at my albums,pics of maf data are on there,if you can view then I can post them onto this thread.
this was just easier for me as i had to depin the ecu cause i had to swap a few wires around from UK>JDM ecu
Thanks for the images, they helped so much, as suspected pretty much every value was different!
Are you running an sti engine in the UK car?
Are you using a base map or the map that came with the ECU which was running maffless?
Just be aware the sti has different/more aggressive cam profiles so I would think you will have to make a lot of changes to the fuel tables.
You say it's running 9-10afr idle,Are you running with no narrowband/narrowband simulation? Are you running with closed loop off?
Is the ECU not trying to pull idle to 14.7?
Are you running an sti engine in the UK car?
Are you using a base map or the map that came with the ECU which was running maffless?
Just be aware the sti has different/more aggressive cam profiles so I would think you will have to make a lot of changes to the fuel tables.
You say it's running 9-10afr idle,Are you running with no narrowband/narrowband simulation? Are you running with closed loop off?
Is the ECU not trying to pull idle to 14.7?
I kinda been poking at it slowly for a few weeks now, like i said everything hit the fan went i went to adjust the mafv to my orange maf.
Before i could punch in 15.6 for a fuel value and end up with 14.7 on my wideband.
Its just after messing with the scaling it went sideways.
Ill post my ignition map and fuel map once the lappy is done charging.
Im aware of the difference in cam, but since the guy had a mafless setup and esl wasnt helping me, i started poking at it and as a result i have like 5 maps lol.
Td04 at 0.9 bar keeping timing to a max of 28-30 with afrs of 10.8ish.
Planning to make some det cans and really maximize the 99 ron that ive been burning through.
Really appreciate the help man, i was close to reaching fk it and getting bob rawle to map it, but then it would be a waste of my weeks of effort lmao.
To my untrained eye those tables look ok,look safe but looks like not a lot of work has gone into them? I could be wrong as I only self map my own car and every car is different,it's all about how it drives really,how your boost tables look,how the datalogs look on your runs,when and where in the load and rev range you're hitting full boost&load and how your fuel trim and knock correction tables,IAM etc are looking,many factors to a map.
I got a brand new knock sensor, mounted correctly and torqued with a torque wrench.
Ive never seen activity on the knock control map, only once when i use the timing map which came with the car.
Youre right, not alot of work has gone into many of these maps, im very hesitant to do anything major to blow it up.
Right now i just need rough figured as to when would timing be too much on 99 at wot 28? 32? 38?
I mean ive just about got my fuel table to match my wideband. I swapped out coil Pack cause it was bad.
Right now i can confidently say, the car is pulling smoother than ever, im getting overshoot in gear 3 and 4 but i need to get some time to log it, im sure a little tweaking in the boost error will bring that under control. OR that could just be the result of the map switching from retarded timing of 18 and 20s before spool up to on boost of 30s
If added a little timing before spool up to hopefully gain some torque.
Right now im spooling at a measley 3300ish.
I will swap my map sensor out for a new one and i will swap a new fpr in just for some safety soon.
You definitely know more about this than me and ill post a gear 3 log to see what kind of activity im seeing.
One thing is for sure, wot im at 10.8-11ish, everything is safe (afr wise, timing wise ive no clue what the optimal timing is pre spool, peak torque and peak hp)
If someone could drop in a td04 mapped on 99 ron, i can slowly work my way on adjusting to a similar timing.
Hopefully, that way i know im heading in the right direction.
Is the car smooth? At wot, very. Cruise? Hit and miss from 14.4-16.0 but that will be easy to sort out in my opinion!
I've not seen engine loads over 42
Last edited by hamzi95; 27 September 2017 at 05:31 PM.
Yeh I'm on a totally different setup,different turbo etc
What load column are you in when on full boost?does it pull all the way to redline? What does you ign advance table look like?
It's hard to know what timing figure you should be,you might well be able to add a bit more,get the det cans on,keep adding a little until you hear the onset of det then pull timing back a couple of degrees is how I did mine.
YELLOW =
LOW RPM/HIGH LOAD ? When is this used? when you're in a higher gear ? city driving? motorway driving?
PINK=
Going around town, commute to work? HIGH/LOW RPM-LOW LOAD? not sure when this is used ?
ORANGE=
Wide open throttle? HIGH RPM/HIGH LOAD?
when is the point i can say, i dont need to be so rich yet, i can go lean?
what rpm/what load?
is 13.3 at 24 load to 3600rpm too rich? or is it too lean?
is 11.6 at 27 load to 4000 rpm too rich? or is it too lean?
Pretty much got the colour right,the yellow high load low rpm will never come into play.
I'm at work now so hard to read your logs on my phone,do you have any datalog software,Microsoft isn't great really,ecutek free software is good,I can send you it if you can't find it on the net or get hold of it.
There are a few members on here who helped me out and still do,Bludgod is very experienced in all things tuning and was a massive help when I started out so would be able to advise a better start point for your setup. The Rig has been a great help and there are other members that give great advice Ben Harris is another of the top of my head.
Last edited by ossett2k2; 27 September 2017 at 07:22 PM.
just on a side note, your MAF scale value will be adjusted from stock because the car was running mafless. If your back to running a MAF now then you need the standard MAF scaling value etc. put in before you can start tuning as you'll end up having to re-do the fuel tables and whatnot.
Looking at your log something funky goes on around 4000 when you hit boost - it seems a little late to be hitting boost considering your wastegate is at 90% duty as well so could be you've a hidden air leak somewhere that you've mapped around.
just on a side note, your MAF scale value will be adjusted from stock because the car was running mafless. If your back to running a MAF now then you need the standard MAF scaling value etc. put in before you can start tuning as you'll end up having to re-do the fuel tables and whatnot.
Looking at your log something funky goes on around 4000 when you hit boost - it seems a little late to be hitting boost considering your wastegate is at 90% duty as well so could be you've a hidden air leak somewhere that you've mapped around.
Ive got one piece headers (syms racing 4-2-1) ive redone intercooler hoses and ive swapped the turbo up-pipe gasket!
I was actually leaning towards the wastegate penny not sealing properly :/ im not sure how possible this is. I will try to get a friend to cover the exhaust on cold start and ill try to hear for exhaust leaks. Ill also check through all my boost piping and hosing.
ive redone all tables from scratch, and i got the maf settings from oskett.
I took a fresh gear 3 WOT, i will grab that off the lappy and upload it asap.
Ok, i've isolated a 3rd gear WOT, put my actual afr in and make a csv.
I believe this can be opened in excel and delatdash. ive test it (thanks osett for the DD link, worked perfectly)
spooling very very late, must be somthing to do with that wooshing noise i hear on low rpm/high load. i will go check my IC hoses now. actually may even be a leak from the recirc DV (snapped the nipple off and glued it back ) and that drop in boost at 5150 rpm is properly fishy.
as a template to do my max WG duty, along with a min WG duty off 55.
this log was run at target boost of 1.01 bar
my boost error (which i believe is a tad bit high due to not hitting 1.0 bar and only .92)
0.50
0.25
0.12
0.04
with boost error of
0.30
0.15
0.08
0.04
i was getting overboost into 1.10bar.
so i applied a safety margin of .1 bar for reasons i have no clue why
IGNORE THIS DATALOG PLS (Not sure down to delete it :/)
Last edited by hamzi95; 28 September 2017 at 12:39 PM.
Reason: GUYS, im a complete idiot. thank you for pointing that out bludgod. I was filtering by more than equal to 84 throttle % howe
Not sure how your clipping the logs there - but you've a massive gap/jump of no data in the middle of that run, look at it with time as the X axis:
Engine speed stutters at 4200 then resumes at 5150 - inbetween you have no data so no idea if the car is over/underboosting here or not. At the same time your vehicle speed goes from 132 to 44km/h. Is your clutch slipping or maybe a bad earth somewhere that's screwing with the signal? Also some laptops have a hard drive anti-drop protection that cuts the hard disk off when you get some G's - you'll see this as a gap/jump in the logs where the laptop froze the disk just as the turbo starts to pickup and throw you into the seat.
Your AFR jumps around here as well so I'd definitely be looking things over before you start pushing hard and trying to map around issues.
Not sure how your clipping the logs there - but you've a massive gap/jump of no data in the middle of that run, look at it with time as the X axis:
Engine speed stutters at 4200 then resumes at 5150 - inbetween you have no data so no idea if the car is over/underboosting here or not. At the same time your vehicle speed goes from 132 to 44km/h. Is your clutch slipping or maybe a bad earth somewhere that's screwing with the signal? Also some laptops have a hard drive anti-drop protection that cuts the hard disk off when you get some G's - you'll see this as a gap/jump in the logs where the laptop froze the disk just as the turbo starts to pickup and throw you into the seat.
Your AFR jumps around here as well so I'd definitely be looking things over before you start pushing hard and trying to map around issues.
in gear 3, full wot, during that time the car overshoots in revs over 5200 and bounces back, i have no idea what this is ? dosent happen if i do it in gear 1 or 2. so thats exactly how i see it aswell :/ the rev just goes VROOOOOOM and then bounces back - only in high gear whilst transitioning to high load.
my laptop has an ssd.
and finally im clipping my logs to WOT so i filter to throttle value over 84%.
GUYS, im a complete idiot. thank you for pointing that out bludgod.
I was filtering by more than equal to 84 throttle % however i was sorting it in Highest to lowest order for some reason. now my times match up and look less alien like!
very much appreciated blud!
Last edited by hamzi95; 28 September 2017 at 12:40 PM.
do you want to send me an unclipped log even? This one still showing strange thigns it's like 2 runs overlapping each other. I'm trying to work out what your saying above, if the actual revs in the car are jumping up like that and coming back down then your clutch is slipping - no more logging for you until it's fixed.
27 September 2017, 12:51 PM
ESL Help
