mutant_matt

Alpine,

I think it's already been said that on the track, the favour comes back in the car's direction, but we're talking about driving on the roads.....

On the Clarkson vid, if you look closly, McKensie hardly gets into the power band on the R1, and on the final straight, he eases off to let the porker win - what else would you expect from a Clarkson vid, he hates bikes!!!! Why didn't they allow 5 laps of each (timed) and compare fastest laps? I'm guessing ('cos I don't know for certain), that the R1 would win (IMHO )

Matt

NotoriousREV

OK, here's some more figures. The fastest lap by in the Oulton round of the MRO 600 Superpsort class was 1:41.91

It's fair to say that this bike will be modded in a similar fashion to most road bikes (i.e. pipe and filter, bit of suspension work)

Now all I need to do is find some results from a good road car series, i.e. not too modified.

Alpine

Mutant..

can I refer you to the original posters second paragraph... sorry I don't know how to do the quote thing.. but he distinctly mentions track...

Kryten... sorry you lost me.. I thought the whole point was to compare unlike.. bikes have 2 wheels and cars have 4.. My thoughts in comparing the two I chose was that they represent the pinnacle of motorcar and bike development with the best drivers and riders...

In other words not a great scooby driver against a poor rider or vice versa..

I think the test is being downgraded as it didn't produce the results you wanted to see... personally.. don't give a damn, will always pull over to let the rider past.. far bigger b4lls than me..

all of course IMHO..

[Edited by Alpine - 6/14/2002 3:09:07 PM]

^Qwerty^

Since when has the rubber in motorcycle tyres been the same as car tyres? You have no idea.
After coming off the track last year, I rode my bike straight onto my trailer and strapped it down for the drive home. When I got home, the strap was stuck to the rear tyre. I don't beleive you can do the same with car tyres?

Regardless of tyres, you might want to try looking into other factors beyond as well. It is you who needs the physics lesson.

And before anyone asks. I've got both types of vehicle.

TBMeech

Notorious,

MRO allows engine tweaking as well, IE rods, cams, pistons, I wouldnt say that they compare well to road bikes, but if you had a look here:

www.bemsee.co.uk have a look at Powerbikes as they are like you say, uprated suspension, exhaust, dynojets etc

^Qwerty^

After reading even more of this tread, it might be worth pointing out that bike tyres are now so advanced, its becoming very difficult to actually be able to lock up the front wheel under heavy braking on a good dry surface.

I've read that its actually impossible on GP bikes (slicks), and when you watch the SB lads braking for corners their back tyre is sometimes off the ground going into the corners. This makes me think that the super soft sticky stuff you can buy over the counter that passes as a road tyre (its the same rubber they are using in the races) offers the same kind of performance.

It will be a long time before we see that in Touring Cars or rallying

mutant_matt

Alpine,I understand what you're saying but the Superbikes are not the pinnacle of bike racing due to the fact that they are modified road bikes and there is lots they can't do.

MotoGP (GP500 in old money ) I would guess would have to take this mantle and I think are significantly faster than the SB's....

Is it time to give up yet BTW? We usually get to this point and agree to dis-agree??? (though usually with more agression and name calling )

Matt

NotoriousREV

OK, you're gonna love this.

Ever heard of the 750 Motor Club RGB series? Road Going Bike Engined cars. They raced at Snetterton on the 14th April. The fastest lap, set by a Fisher Fury was 1:16:01

The Fisher Fury has a FireBlade engine punting out around 135bhp and weighs in at 400kgs in race trim. Thats a power to weight ratio of 0.34bhp/kg.

On 4th May, the MRO held their meeting at Snetterton. I decided to look at the 400 Supersport class. Your average 400 puts out around 60bhp and weighs in at 170kgs, thats a PWR of 0.35bhp/kg, so pretty close. Fastest lap? 1:18.71

Thats nearly 3 seconds per lap from 2 vehicles that have a fairly equal PWR, so why was the car faster? Grip, grip, grip, grip, grip.

Denzil_Dog

3 cheers for notorious !!
you can have a free hooker and a pint on me hahahha

[Edited by Denzil_Dog - 6/14/2002 3:32:37 PM]

Alpine

Matt,

happy to bow to your superior knowledge of the different bike series.. I think this argument again comes down to good driver v crap rider... driver wins.. and vice versa.. with the caveat that it's easier to be a better driver than a better rider..

For instance a decent 125 could pass me if I was REALLY trying...

I think some of this is down to sensation of speed as opposed to real speed... for instance my 1430 mini used to feel like I was doing 300mph as my **** was so close to the ground and it made so much noise.. but I am convinced the Scoob would waft past it feeling like I was doing 40... Motorbikes provide a high speed sensation..

NotoriousREV

Qwerty, I have lots of idea, tosser. I've been riding bikes for over 10 years, I work on bikes every chance I get, I was even part of a small race team for 5 years. So before you try and tell me what I do and don't know, find out a little more about me.

Alpine

Notorious...

I have to say.. I think we've won for tin tops with over whelming real world stats...!!

Should we go straight to the slagging match now???

Denzil_Dog

erm............

slang away

mutant_matt

Notorious,

Well done, I'm impressed!!!! (damn :P )

Luckily for us bikers, on the road in real situations, we still get to blow away well driven cars who are trying.... (mostly )

Matt

P.S. I never could be doing with the slanging but feel free to unleash hell ( ) so we can all still have a good laugh....

^Qwerty^

I don't disagree with your "contact" patch statement, but to say a car has more grip than a bike is not always correct. If that were the case, would it not be true that a car could always out corner a bike? If you have been riding so long, you must know from experience that on some corners a bike will destroy a car, and vice versa? (slow car, fast bike?). Or are we just talking about "grip" in its own right, and not what that amount of weight etc. that the "amount" of grip you mention has to hold onto the road? Gawd.. this is hard to put into words...

Its a subjective argument that could go on and on and on (and no doubt will every 3 months on this bbs), I wasn't trying to tell you what you do and do not know. I just know what I know from riding a bike for over 10 years like yourself and driving a Scooby.

Not quite sure why you had to call me a tosser though

NotoriousREV

I called you a tosser because you

A) told me I had "no idea" when it comes to tyres

and

B) told me I needed a physics lesson, when clearly there is nothing wrong with the physics I have presented

You can agree or disagree with my opinion, but to bring in personal comments because you can't argue your point backed up with a few facts in my book makes you a tosser and opens you up to the same treatment back.

And yes, I beat cars on my bike very often, but the fact remains: cars CAN corner faster than bikes, the fact that they often don't is not up for discussion. If a plane isn't flying, that doesn't mean it can't fly.

^Qwerty^

But there is,

A blanket statemenet of "cars CAN corner faster than bikes" is not true, you must know there are too many variables in the physics to say that?

And Im happy for you to prove me wrong, but I will not accept being called a tosser, that is out of order

neilbbb

so it's handbags all round then?

NotoriousREV

OK, which corners faster: (go on, humour me!)

Porsche 911

Honda Melody

Jon1T

Come on!! Fight! Fight! Fight!

^Qwerty^

And I'll say:

which corners faster:

A Ford Ka or a GSXR Thou'?
A R1 or a F1 Car?
A Scooby or a Cagiva Mito?
etc. etc.

I don't know the answer, and neither do you, as there are too many variables involved.

NotoriousREV

After my success showing Snetterton laptimes, I'm trying to find info on g forces in corners. You'd be surprised how many "normal" cars will pull higher g's than a bike can manage. I would confidently say that:

F1 would leave the R1 for dead around any corner
Scooby vs Mito? Scooby
Ka vs Gixxer Thou, pretty close I'd reckon, I'd put my money on the Ka in the slower corners at least

^Qwerty^

Its not a definite science though...., well maybe it is, but there are so many variables involved, it makes it difficult to say one way or another in some cases. (does for me anyway)

What about those nice long sweeper bends you get joining private motorways (or in Germany). Is it the fact that I can't tell when my car is going to let go or not, or indeed the bike will pile around the corner at a considerable higher speed than the car?

Or are we talking about entry or exit speed into the corner? Like in the Ka example above, would the CBR6 not be able to come out of the corner (say an 80mph ish one) at a much higher speed than the car? I'd have thought so? (or even faster on a V-twin...?)

I really have a genuine interest to see such a test, where various types of car and corner are tested to see what comes out on top. Obviouslly no point putting a Ford Ka into a 130mph+ sweeper though.

SiPie

"Is it the fact that I can't tell when my car is going to let go or not,"

Qwerty.....

Remember to let me know if you are ever up driving in Scotland! Think I'll stay out of your way!!!!

Cheers
SiPie

jjones

owning both a 200bhp car and a 100bhp bike i can say that IMHO a bike will be quicker A to B. (equally skilled drivers and dry weather).

power to weight ratio for my bike approx 450bhp tonne (with rider) - scooby eh 165 per tonne with no fuel and kate moss driving?

traffic is not an obstacle on a bike period. acceleration is nothing short of phenominal. even my old 600 (standard) will do a standing quarter of 11.3 secs. try that in your old tractor.

my 17 mile journey to work takes 25 mins in a car and about 20 on the bike and is a mixture of A/B roads.

"show em The twisties argument..." - for every bend there is an exit... and any speed i might potentially loose in the bend i will more than make up on the exit.

oh and people shouldn't make such comments as "Tosser" to people they don't know. You wouldn't do it if you were face to face so why do it here?

(if someone called you tosser to your face what would your reaction be???)

IMHO bikes are better than cars.

a new gsxr1000 costs 9000 on the road - what car gives similar levels of performance for this cost? (just how much is a mclaren f1 thesedays?)

[Edited by jjones - 6/14/2002 4:51:52 PM]

^Qwerty^

LOL

Long sweeper in question:

If you start to stray the wrong side of 115/120ish in the car, it just *doesn't* feel safe, yet the bike feels planted. Obviouslly Im never going to deliberatly test where the grip limit is on either vehicle for obvious reasons.

Thinking of another corner near where I live. If I borrow my Mrs's VW Polo, the car starts to slide (i.e loose grip?) about 55mph, yet the bike will quite happily go around the same corner at 60+mph.
With a professional driver, Im sure the car would go around quicker, but then so would the bike.

Sheepsplitter

I don't think it's a fair comparison to pick a non-road car for the comparison, as I don't think that's what the original poster had in mind at the time. However the truth is that most of the time saved in a lap in a touring car is on the brakes and not so much corner speed. The cars stop quicker than the bikes because they have bigger brakes and 4 huge contact patches.

SiPie

I find the bikes better than cars point interesting but I still can't get my cigarette to light properly in that damned wind and I had a real hassle last week trying to carry my golf clubs, mountain bike and 2 passengers on my motorbike!!! mmmmmm....... Oh and I nearly fell off my car last night on a slippy roundabout at 20mph!!!!!

Flamesuit not on ..... just having a Friday laugh!!!! Both cool modes of transport but I'll settle for my scoob ta!

Good weekend all....

Denzil_Dog

ok then you bunch of ill-educated punks !!!!!

this is the DENZIL_DOG way of looking at it !

lets get a car and a bike and get someone to sit on/in the said vehicle and i will tie a rope around each vehicle and tug like fcuck !!
with both vehicles with brakes on full of course !!

i bet i could get the bike to move !!!!
but i also bet that my fcking arms would fall off before the car moves a mm !!!!!!

so stick that up y'*** !!!

crazy ****'s

Denzil_Dog

one more thing !
hope everyone has a good wknd

later guys & gals