JTaylor

A Salafist Jihadi (what the media would term an extremist or a radical) will fire molten shrapnel in to the head of an eight year old girl who's armed with nothing more than a smile and a pink balloon. A radical Christian will not only seek to forgive this act, but to love the perpetrator also. A radical Muslim and a radical Christian are opposed 180°.

Could I be persuaded to change my beliefs? Yes. And I have in the past. For the last six years however, I've remained convinced that the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are perfect. Study the men and their books.

Martin2005

Like I said, I was referring to the strength of belief, not what people do with it.

Martin2005

The problem is that it's anything but simple.


Standing on the sidelines whilst hundreds of thousands are killed millions of people are turned in refugees, isn't a simple choice, it's a bloody difficult one, it's an immoral one and it creates just as many issues.

JTaylor

My pastor's just waded in and says that boots on the ground should be deployed where possible and as a humanitarian aid in the face of genocide and other atrocities. I think this, where the 'enemy' is 'radical' Islam, is folly. Again, anyone who's really studied the man Mohammad and his book will understand why. It has and always will be viewed as an invasion and spun to recruit more jihadis.

Martin2005

Yeah I guess we can look the other way whilst innocents are slaughtered, then forgive the perpetrators afterwards

Devildog

If you believe for one second that "western" foreign policy is based on any form of morality then yes, its far from simple.

We also need to ask ourselves why so many are being killed and so many are being turned into refugees. What started that? Are we locked in a viscious circle where not standing back just makes it 100 times worse?

We also need to stop believing all the propoganda. And look behind the picture that is portrayed to us by our "esteemed" leaders to justify their own wholy immoral actions

http://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-t...o-know/5414289

JTaylor

It's a zugswang, a conundrum, a paradox, a dilemma of the highest order. Truth is, nobody knows the answer, Martin.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Whereas a lot of people bang their drum about people banging their drum. The fact you and others tend to disregard any differing opinion as nonsensical is as bigoted and stereotypical as any racist. Add to that the hypocrisy of saying people use events like these to their own means you use events like this to make out somehow your opinion is somehow more valid than someone else's.

I don't think you quite realise the dangers we face if we don't start acting towards a solution. How many more will turn to the right and be indoctrinated until we start seeing revenge attacks of a similar scale?.
Peace, love, unity and 'oh your opinion doesn't matter' is just as ignorant as those that claim 'all Muslims are bad' or 'deport them all'. The fact you can't see it just makes you that little more deluded than they are.

JTaylor

What's the solution, Kwik?

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Have you downloaded instructions on how to make a bomb? If not, why not?

neil-h

Coime on Kwik, we're all waiting.

neil-h

Because I don't need to, it's a perk of being intelligent. I could however provide you with a list of sources that will explain how to do it that don't require anything as profoundly stupid as typing "how to make a bomb" into Google.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Why not?.

neil-h

The rest of my post answers that quetsion...

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I'll ask the question directly then as you're obviously aware of where I was leading and you're trying to wriggle out of it.
Would you agree anyone who downloads instructions on how to build a bomb should be in prison?.

JTaylor

Kwik?

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

None knows how to deal with this Isis lunatic Muslims
But I agree the uk need to do something

JTaylor

What?

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

I'd deport any hate preaching scumbag
I'd deport any criminal non national and close the borders off
Now with brexit need visa to enter the uk
That would be a good start

JTaylor

And in what way would any of these measures have prevented Manchester?

Martin2005

You know... the 'solution', can't believe they haven't done it already😀

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I have actually put a suggestion above Martin but you're not great at reading. Easy to pick holes in solutions when you offer up none.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

The solution would have been not to offer asylum to Libyans seeking refuge. It doesn't help now but it puts into perspective our open door policy for 25 years time.

Uncle Creepy

Poor taste to use this thread as a religious sounding board, man.

Hypocrite.

neil-h

Nope.

Martin2005

OK but that's not really a solution is it?


btw - contrary to popular belief we don't have an open door policy for refugees. In fact our record on asylum is pretty crumby compared to most developed counties

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

It is a solution if you don't want the chance of 22 children being killed in a similar way in 25 years.
You eluded to 'you're more likely to get run over' or something. Should we have accepted in the past that people would get run over or do you think adding safety measures, stricter driving standards, road markings, crossings etc are put in place to prevent death as much as possible.
Lets apply the same logic to terrorism, rather than just shrugging our shoulders.

Feel free to offer your own solutions.

Martin2005

You seem to be advocating the equivalent of banning crossing the road, or maybe roads themselves.


Seriously why do all your 'solutions' end up looking just like collective punishment?


Not once have you bothered to mention the fact that virtually all refugees are people in desperate need, not terrorist. What about them? What's your solution for them, once you cut off their hope of coming here?

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Again no solutions of your own.

I believe we should hold a national survey on immigration. Those that choose to vote yes to immigration from non EU countries are agreeing to house a refugee in their own home. The figures would be 99-1.
And women and children only, no man of fighting age should abandon their country.
If say 25,000 vote yes we take in 25,000 women and children. In 5 years we repeat the process, that will be significantly less than 25,000.

Those like yourself that preach about refugees will quickly change their opinion once the responsibility is theirs and not everyone else's.

wayne9t9

I think i`m being perfectly rational. New laws should be brought in. Times change and if these murderers are already known before they kill then they must be doing something that leads them to the actual act.