Is the EU falling apart?
09 May 2017, 12:03 AM
#121
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I'm not sure who hates the UK more - clowns like Juncker or some of you remain voters, it's pretty disgusting to be honest.
Macron is not the ideal candidate for the EU, he's simply the better option of the 2 that made it into the second round. As mentioned I would've voted Macron - Le Pen is just not a credible alternative.
Nothing much will change for France however as they aren't going to be able to significantly reform their economic fortunes because they've got to use the Euro and hence cannot tweak their fiscal policy to suit their economy.
France lost 12,000 millionaires last year, and the exodus has been increasing.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/pf/m...tralia-france/
Just see how things shape out for France over the next 5 years. Pretty much all Western countries are in a predicament with crippling levels of debt and huge unfunded liabilities. but France is in a particularly bad position.
I see the Leftists are already out demonstrating against Marcon en-masse in Paris.
Macron is not the ideal candidate for the EU, he's simply the better option of the 2 that made it into the second round. As mentioned I would've voted Macron - Le Pen is just not a credible alternative.
Nothing much will change for France however as they aren't going to be able to significantly reform their economic fortunes because they've got to use the Euro and hence cannot tweak their fiscal policy to suit their economy.
France lost 12,000 millionaires last year, and the exodus has been increasing.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/pf/m...tralia-france/
Just see how things shape out for France over the next 5 years. Pretty much all Western countries are in a predicament with crippling levels of debt and huge unfunded liabilities. but France is in a particularly bad position.
I see the Leftists are already out demonstrating against Marcon en-masse in Paris.
11 May 2017, 09:28 AM
#129
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
11 May 2017, 10:26 AM
#130
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Are you stupid? Jack was implying that the British leave group thought that if the UK voted to leave then France would also follow suit and then Netherlands and then Italy etc etc
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
Although the very few point isn't really true, there are quite a lot, just nowhere near enough to warrant a referendum!Even in the UK, if we'd have had a referendum on whether to have a referendum, it probably never would have happened. The only reason the Brexit referendum did happen was to patch divisions in the Conservative party caused by losing votes to UKIP!
11 May 2017, 01:14 PM
#131
Are you stupid? Jack was implying that the British leave group thought that if the UK voted to leave then France would also follow suit and then Netherlands and then Italy etc etc
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
Remember Cameron was pro EU! And we voted him in. Look where that landed him (and us)
12 May 2017, 10:56 AM
#132
Are you stupid? Jack was implying that the British leave group thought that if the UK voted to leave then France would also follow suit and then Netherlands and then Italy etc etc
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
But in reality it is only Britain who wants to leave the EU. Yes, other countries have people who would like to leave, but there are very few people.
Whatever Jack was IMPLYING wasn't clear, especially since none of the countries you listed have even been asked if they want to leave...yet.
12 May 2017, 07:08 PM
#133
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How do you know "it is only Britain who [sic] wants to leave the EU"? Unless every member state of the EU held a referendum, nobody knows what proportion of people in each country would like to leave or remain. I seem to remember lots of 'educated' people saying the UK wouldn't vote to leave, but we did!
13 May 2017, 11:29 AM
#134
So far, the only people I've spoken to in france who do not support Brexit, are the ex-pats, worried about selfish things like dog-passports.
Of the French I've spoken to, in a rural area where you'd expect them to be pro-EU since they get lots of farming subsidies, I've yet to meet someone who wouldn't vote for Frexit given the chance.
Of the French I've spoken to, in a rural area where you'd expect them to be pro-EU since they get lots of farming subsidies, I've yet to meet someone who wouldn't vote for Frexit given the chance.
13 May 2017, 01:29 PM
#135
As I stated beforehand Le Penn winning would have taken a minor miracle. The establishment had a firm grip on the media and realistically the far right wasn't the right answer but then neither is Merkel's toyboy.
Le Penn winning would have concreted the opinion that the EU is in desperate need of reform, and a reform of the EU would see even the hardest brexiteers consider us rejoining. I fear that in the next few years the rest of Europe will follow suit, the right will gain momentum but not enough to make change, and things will become worse especially for us seen as the one sceptic.
If only there was another european gathering that would depict how the rest of europe see us.
Le Penn winning would have concreted the opinion that the EU is in desperate need of reform, and a reform of the EU would see even the hardest brexiteers consider us rejoining. I fear that in the next few years the rest of Europe will follow suit, the right will gain momentum but not enough to make change, and things will become worse especially for us seen as the one sceptic.
If only there was another european gathering that would depict how the rest of europe see us
.
13 May 2017, 04:39 PM
#140
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You cannot compare multi-horse races with a 2 horse race
13 May 2017, 05:04 PM
#141
However you wish to discredit the figures you can't deny the support for the NF in France has grown over the past 10 years and you'd have to ask yourself why.
If the next 5 years are the same as the previous 5 then you'd have to be silly to think that support for the NF wouldn't continue to grow.
The only way to counteract that growth would be to prevent history repeating itself or taking on some of the more 'moderate policies' of the opposition.
13 May 2017, 05:11 PM
#142
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It was only a 2 horse race as the voting public only felt there were 2 horses worth backing.
However you wish to discredit the figures you can't deny the support for the NF in France has grown over the past 10 years and you'd have to ask yourself why.
If the next 5 years are the same as the previous 5 then you'd have to be silly to think that support for the NF wouldn't continue to grow.
The only way to counteract that growth would be to prevent history repeating itself or taking on some of the more 'moderate policies' of the opposition.
However you wish to discredit the figures you can't deny the support for the NF in France has grown over the past 10 years and you'd have to ask yourself why.
If the next 5 years are the same as the previous 5 then you'd have to be silly to think that support for the NF wouldn't continue to grow.
The only way to counteract that growth would be to prevent history repeating itself or taking on some of the more 'moderate policies' of the opposition.
I'm not discrediting the figures, they are correct. They are just not comparable.
A more accurate analysis would show the NF moving from 18% in 2012 to about 21% in 2017. So yes their support has grown, but not by nearly as much as you would of thought given the tumult in France and the EU over the past 5 years.
13 May 2017, 06:44 PM
#143
That's all subjective, like saying more people would vote labour if Corbyn wasn't their leader. 3 million French people felt more compelled to vote Le Pen in 2017 than 2012, that's about 9% of those that actually voted. But the abstain vote could easily be swayed if people felt more passionate in 2022, but again subjective.
13 May 2017, 07:04 PM
#144
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if Every abstainer , and his dog , voted Le pen next time they might get somewhere
on the back drop the party splintering and le pen grand junior defecting to look after offspring
on the back drop the party splintering and le pen grand junior defecting to look after offspring
13 May 2017, 09:27 PM
#145
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Just denying what's happening and screaming fake news does not help address the problem.
Kwik has a point about the rise of the 'far right' in France. We either acknowledge this and try and address the issues that push people to vote in this direction or we just stick our heads in the sand and deny it.
A significant proportion of the northern European indigenous population are very concerned about mass immigration and refugees.
This needs to be discussed openly and resolved, pretending it doesn't exist is not a solution
13 May 2017, 09:54 PM
#146
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We hardly have any refugees in this country ,relatively speaking !
But lets not take away from his narrative , that everyone them badass muzzies is out to get you
But lets not take away from his narrative , that everyone them badass muzzies is out to get you
13 May 2017, 10:42 PM
#147
Scooby Regular
Your approach of denying or vilifying the concerns of millions of the idigenous population is the real problem and responsible for the rise of the the far right, populism etc.
The more you scream and label anybody who questions immigration as being racist or xenophobic the more their cause grows.
Btw, why did you mention 'muzzies'? I never did. Have you been on A Leo Sayer again?
Last edited by Dingdongler; 13 May 2017 at 10:45 PM.
13 May 2017, 11:17 PM
#149
Whilst people like you stifle free speech and intend to shut down differing opinion those that disagree have no alternative but to seek solace in the right. They see a differing opinion in say, Tommy Robinson, britains first and are then ripe for indoctrination.
I merely stated that I didn't believe all Islamic terrorists work alone. But as it wasnt an extreme left opinion I was immediately branded by yourself and others as a racist.
Fortunately I can see through moronic ideologies like yours and the far right.
14 May 2017, 01:58 AM
#150
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And here we find the very reason that immigration, Islamic terrorism and the rise of the right cannot be discussed. Because anyone with an opinion that differs from the far left is immediately a racist or a ****.
Whilst people like you stifle free speech and intend to shut down differing opinion those that disagree have no alternative but to seek solace in the right. They see a differing opinion in say, Tommy Robinson, britains first and are then ripe for indoctrination.
I merely stated that I didn't believe all Islamic terrorists work alone. But as it wasnt an extreme left opinion I was immediately branded by yourself and others as a racist.
Fortunately I can see through moronic ideologies like yours and the far right.
Whilst people like you stifle free speech and intend to shut down differing opinion those that disagree have no alternative but to seek solace in the right. They see a differing opinion in say, Tommy Robinson, britains first and are then ripe for indoctrination.
I merely stated that I didn't believe all Islamic terrorists work alone. But as it wasnt an extreme left opinion I was immediately branded by yourself and others as a racist.
Fortunately I can see through moronic ideologies like yours and the far right.
