gazney101

iTrader: (5)

i agree that it will have a place but the whole concept is flawed in my opinion, lifespan of the cells is one of them, the fast charging reduces the lifespan, and once out of warranty how much will it cost to replace?
​​​​​what effects will that have on the environment? How big of a carbon footprint will that leave?
Then there's the process of the electricity that charges it up, fossil fuels?

hodgy0_2

well that's my point - I thought the concept was flawed, but apparently a lot of the downsides, i.e. range, charge time, battery life are being improved all the time, and will only get better

I also thought that the digital phone camera would NEVER overtake the quality etc of a traditional film based camera

but as nearly always, technology and science proves one wrong

more and more electricity generation is coming from renewables (forget what the climate deniers tell you)

China are actually leading the way - they are closing down coal based power plants at an accelerating rate and cancelling ones already in construction

and they intend to invest nearly half a trillion dollars in renewable energy by 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/w...tion.html?_r=0

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...-be-cancelled/

Petem95

If I still had a diesel I'd be worried about the depreciation & would probably be thinking about offloading sooner rather than later...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...dicted-spread/

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I agree to a point; 'leccy for sub 200mile work. Diesel for beyond.

Problem with petrol its in a nowhere land future-wise. It's a halfway house that doesn't address the pollution/economy/reliability anywhere near enough as it should; It's not economical enough and it still pollutes. The fuel itself has a lower calorific value so will always be less efficient. Even less so now they are adding more and more ethanol to it (which lowers the calorific value even further). Currently all the technology ploughed into it is second-hand having been carried over from diesel (turbocharging, direct injection etc). They are now as equally complicated as a diesel and thus long term reliability is equally as much of a issue.

That leaves petrol being only good for cheap shopping cars (Picanto, Dacia etc). Or "drivers" cars. And I don't know about anyone else but nearly all current petrol engines require a great whacking turbo bolted on to get it to perform like it should partly due to emissions control, partly down to modern cars weighing so much. With that comes a non-linear throttle response, not quite like lag (although there is that too) and a lack of urgency at lower speeds, it's not the same anymore, unless it's something exotic. Mash the throttle on a old 2.0pinto and it just jumped into action instantly from any revs (even in a mk2 transit thanks to low weight and a accelerator pump that just drenched in the fuel ) These days you get a delay and smooth build of power. Nice but boring. That's until they wind the boost up on the sporty version (Focus ST, Golf R etc) or you go for a super-sports car (Porsche, R8, supercharged Jag, V8 AMG etc).

But jump into a Tesla...that get up and go has returned, despite the weighing so much. And costing...but prices will fall. Jury's out in long term reliability.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Diesel is still €0.20 a litre cheaper than petrol in France and some other EU countries. Only in the UK are we, once again, being cheated while our government looks the other way.

Over there they now have a major problem: more than 75% of cars over in France are diesel, yet diesels are set to be banned from Paris, just for starters. Other cities are watching with interest.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

This is pretty much what I think, also where is all this "NEW" electricity going to come from? I'm sure I've read somewhere that we're going to be struggling as is in the not too distant future, and will be needing several new Powerstations to keep up with the current (excuse the pun) demand.

Also Power stations don't get built overnight, so where's that going to lead us to in 15/20yrs when there are 10/15 million electric cars on the roads, mostly parked up queing to get charged no doubt.

Petem95

It's down to the number of refineries producing diesel though. As per the link I posted above, London are introducing measures to increase diesel parking costs 50% in April, and that'll just be the start.

We'll probably benefit when petrol is the major fossil fuel used for transport as we have it slightly cheaper than diesel, although with fuel taxes applied it's another story of course!

hodgy0_2

but what about electric with a small and efficient petrol generator to do all the lights, heating, radio etc


surely that would take the load of the battery - so that It could concentrate on delivering power to the wheels

that seems a good compromise to me

fpan

iTrader: (11)

I couldn't agree more.

Modern cars have so lazy throttle response that it becomes annoying, then throw in a 'Sport' button that makes the throttle behave like an ON/OFF switch, FFS is it so difficult to make a DBW be linear?

But as a friend who works in the powertrain told me "delay in throttle response makes a car posh" - or that's what people seem to think...

My next commuter car will hopefully be electric.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Ive had a "few" posh cars first thing I do is get them remapped , Works for me Iv a 2015 4.2 TDI (A8) had it mapped 2nd week I had it, Go,s well for a diesal

tony de wonderful

I just bought a car again after 2 years of having no car.

I was always gonna get a used Golf but decided not to get the diesel again, mainly cos I was in the market for 6 or 7 year old car and I don't totally trust the common rail diesels not to present me with a nasty bill as they age. I used to have a Mk 6 with the 2.0 diesel and it was pretty good with reasonable fuel economy, but I have a 1.4 TSI now.

VW's shady testing didn't really push me towards the petrol (much).

tony de wonderful

But diesel is proving to be much more dirty that advertised especially regarding NOx. One reason London want to get rid of diesel motors.

When I had my Golf 2.0 diesel it would barely get warmed up on trips to the shops (being a big lump and diesels taking ages to warm up). I dunno how much real world crap it spewed out?

dpb

I doubt anybody involved in the diesel automotive design 50 years ago Ever envisaged this kind of use

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

BBC One show was yapping on about air pollution and attributing it to diesels cars. But negates to acknowledge that a large portion of vehicles on the road in London are also Buses and Taxis in addition to commercial vehicles. More so I know of bus operators bypassing the adBlu and start-stop systems on their newest buses due to reliability issues...at the expense of emissions! However their is very very little in testing or enforcement to weed out unscrupulous operators. Nor is there is results publishing exactly where emissions like NOx are coming from.

Why is MOT emission testing only focussed on paltry particulate and carbon monoxide? Why isn't it made stricter to ensure the EU4, EU5 or EU6 limit a vehicle was produced to comply with still complies 10, 15, 20yrs down the line? If we're talking seriously about vehicle emissions, then the current MOT emissions test for both petrol and diesel is junk.


And the NOx issue; petrol engines produce NOx. Direct injected stratified charge petrol engine have potential to produce as much NOx as a diesel unless fitted with the same emissions control systems as diesels have (EGR and NOx storage cats). Something not tested and not monitored by MOT tests.

And hang on, forget vehicles..what about almost every home in the country with gas central heating?....lean mixture+heat=NOx. Exactly the conditions a gas boiler runs in. But what news is there on pollution from all of our heating systems? None! Sure my condensing boiler has a reduced NOx burner, but it has no limit to adhere to, no law or check to comply to, all it does is reduce the fan speed to enrich the mixture, which is manually adjusted by a plumber...assuming he knows what he is doing. Its real world NOx production is a unknown; its ten years old and could be producing ten times more than its rated at.

Wheras as a car has feedback control; self adjusting, self monitoring; oxygen sensors, pre cat and post cat, NOx sensors, knock sensors and air flow sensors. 99% of domestic boilers have no emissions control or closed-loop feedback.

So if there is talk of banning diesels when are we going to ban gas boilers that have no NOx control?

Just a thought!

tony de wonderful

It's the particulates though as well. An average diesel car is something like 22 times worse than a petrol one.

Just on that fact alone you can see them being banned.

It doesn't help that wood burners are a latest fad also as they are much worse for particulates than gas central heating.

tony de wonderful

More than an indirect injection gasoline engine sure, but as much as a diesel? The compression ratios are still not as high and the fuel is chemically clearer and simpler.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

In terms of NOx, yes. Lean-burn petrol which essentially is what stratified charge is has been around since the 70's to increase enonomy during the oil crisis. It was effectively phased out through legislation in the USA and Japan due to the pollution problems they caused. The only difference today that has allowed its return is mainly the feedback control, catalysts that can store NOx when not up to temperature, and fuel/air mixing.

The latter is a point of major concern in the long term; they all work fine when new. But put age and wear, deposit build-up, and what I have found is charge stratification does not work as it should all of the time. Be it ports blocking or swirl flaps sticking which affect the air path between cylinders and air/fuel mixing affecting EGR function which controls combustion temperature and reduces excess air. Injectors which do not spray the fuel to the correct part of the piston (A direct injected petrol engine has diesel-shaped piston crowns, which focus the charge in a dished pocket/bowl ), thus stratification does not occur properly and combustion becomes irrattic (misfire, detonation or partial fuel burn as the fuel/air is correctly mixed). The principle of stratified charge is the air/fuel ratio is correct by the spark plug and leans out towards the cylinder wall. When air mixing, EGR and injector spray pattern is incorrect, this does not occur; mixture by the spark plug could be too rich, or too lean, one cylinder worse than another. Add to that variable valve timing systems that cease working correctly at low rpm due to a mechanism fault, poor low speed oil pressure or oil that is degraded. All of this I may add may not illuminate a engine fault light, and not nessercerily any major power/drive-ability issues to the average person, but the point is the engine is not running as it should, nothing is informing the driver there is a fault until its major, it will still usually pass MOT (although this depends on the severity) and during all this the engine is spewing out far more pollution than it should be. And overtime the catalysts become overworked and degrade to the point they only work when really hot so sat at idle in city traffic they are pretty much ineffective. So in this state, pollution levels on a improperly operating petrol can and probably are higher than a relatively modern correctly functioning EU5 onwards diesel.

And my main point is testing and legislation in terms of MOT is nowhere near strict enough to detect and remove these cars from the road. Current media is focusing only on diesels, when really it should be more concerned with the lack of strict monitoring of conformity on older diesels AND petrols to ensure an older vehicle still conforms to the pollution legislation it was supposed to adhere to when new. There are more used vehicles on the road than new ones.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I can see two points straight away. First off, won't folk simply remove the badging that identifies it as a diesel?

And secondly, it'll be the usual "tax it out of existence" bollox, whereby in a few years, they will have a huge hole in their revenue stream as diesels are phased out.

tony de wonderful

DVLA is all networked now isn't it? Doesn't the congestion charge just ANPR your plate as it is? They can probably tell what you had for breakfast.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Was contemplating in getting a big barge diesel but not sure now lol.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

just bought a SQ5 Diesel today, Go,s well, for a diesel.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Lol, raced one yesterday and surprisingly I had the edge
What are they? 3.0d V6 TT?

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Yes 334bhp standard, But I dont keep them standard for long,

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

lol I know that, should map very well, the 3.0d v6 map very well as it is so with a twin turbo should be impressive.
I put it down to weight vs why I had the edge, but not bad for my lowly 275hp 2 litre

Edit to add, looking at the 0-60 time vs mine in book, the sq5 is 5.1 and mines 6.5 so I'm guessing with mine mapped is down there somewhere, the sq5 did have a better launch off line but I was still there and edged slightly before I let off throttle.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Theres drivers and better drivers , Ive a mapped 155 transit what I beat a lot of cars in.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

lol true, was a straight dual carriageway, he must of had it in comfort mode

stealthbomber

iTrader: (3)

Just bought the wife a used x3 and chose the 3.0i petrol over a diesel version, just read too much about modern diesel problems. That straight six is just lovely too!

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Bought the Mrs a new Clio diesel, 80+mpg and zero road tax. Due to our regular trips to Belgium the diesel is a better option than the petrol engine.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Best of luck with it jay...at least you have warranty for when it goes wrong, or will have sold it to some poor mug...

lozgti1

Never understood people who buy diesel convertibles I have to say