Yep 100% right

Selassi was not ficticous on the fact he was a real person, i agree with you there. I was eluding to what he is "worshipped" as. I.e. christ reincarnate.

 

Feeling anguished and guilty are quite separate. Additionally, I was pointing out the differences between marriage as defined by the modern state and marriage as it was in the beginning. Finally, how are Lizzy and I to be married before God if she does not believe in God? If we were to be married by a registrar, this would simply satisfy the legal principle of marriage and not the spiritual. These are the complications that lead to my anguish. We are all sinners, and I acknowledge mine.

 

I was asked a theological question and gave a theological answer. I agree, quiet contemplation is quite beautiful, but silence is not useful as a means of articulation.

 

A messianic figure, not Christ.

 

Sure, but the 'sin' (in your post) would be seen as the source for guilt; additional to the anguish or as part of the anguish.

Who exactly says that the marriage before a God is only that, if both parties believe in God? Your faith that you follow?

Again, this post of your (quoted here) also shows that it's not just the complications that are Causing you your anguish, you also feel like a sinner. You say it yourself. Sin and the feeling of guilt are in correlation, no matter how much you deny.

Frankly, in relation to my first two lines, just admit that you're a follower of an organised religion, not a faith. When you're unable to comply with your organised religion's condition of marrying with another Christian, yet still maintain an intimate relationship with your non-believer partner, it causes you the internal inconsistency; leading you to feel anguished. Your continued marriage-like relationship with Lizzy without marrying her makes you feel like a sinner, hence the guilt that you deny.

Admit it that you are a follower of an organised religion known as Christianity. Faith alone doesn't require you to comply with all sorts, it's the organised religion on the name of the faith that does it.

Again, in the light of my first two lines, never mind marrying Lizzy, even living with Lizzy must be a source of anguish to you because she's not into God, church and all that. Your pastor needs more members in his church, so he would allow you to carry on as it is, it's understandable. Christians have changed their tunes on even homosexuality to push their recruitment drive (what an opportunistic move!), so your unmarried Christian status is a piece of cake for your pastor to swollow. Your mind seems to be so mixed up that I actually understand why you need to cling to your 'organised religion' as your life line. Then again, you are inconsistent with the 'marriage' malarkey condition of your organised religion. How can anyone believe that your 'faith' (?) is being the source of your pleasure; as opposed to your anguish that you experience; due to not meeting its requirements ?? Beggars belief!

 

Very eloquent. Well put.

 

You're missing the point. Faith is far away from your rigid adherence to a collection of rules and regulations that deliberately block questioning and learning. Organised religion is the death of faith; it directs belief instead of gently guiding it.

 

I asked this question here once; due to too much religious publicity via Christianity related threads. Some wise person posted as an answer that the organised religion called Christianity expects each and every of its followers to continue to bang on about it in public; thus promoting it in public. LOL, far from just faith, since faith is actually a deeply personal thing. Not that one needs to hide it, but the condition of banging on about it thus preaching it to all N sundry is a feature of an organised religion. 'Keep spreading the word of Lord!' as their ongoing recruitment drive. Even if one out of thousand is spotted as someone vulnerable enough to be brainwashed, it's a gain!

Putting their material on their website in non-understandable mumbo-jumbo English is very poor marketing, I agree. Even that vulnerable one out of thousand would run a mile!

Perhaps the mumbo-jumbo word trap works like the hypnosis, hence quite apt for the purpose?

You have to look at it from every angle.

 

My sin is forgiven, if I were to feel guilty it would be a remnant of the old man, and that remnant is to be crushed. I am reborn. My anguish (which I should also chip off as it shows a lack of trust in the Lord) comes from my earthly love of Lizzy and my desire to be slavishly obedient to my master, the Christ Jesus, and the ordained teachings of His Apostles.

How could Lizzy, in good conscience, make a vow to God if she does not believe in Him?

I don't feel like a sinner, I am a sinner saved by grace. As above, when convicted by the word of God if I repent and ask for forgiveness my sins are forgiven. Feelings of guilt are quite natural in this life, but as Christ died on the cross for me I can unshackle myself and be free from the burden.

I do not follow a religion, I am a slave of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 7:12 states: To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her.

Wife, in the original Hebrew, is a women with whom a man has laid. A Christian is advised to 'marry' another Christian by the Apostle Paul so that they do not suffer the complexities (and accusations by the enemy) of being 'unevenly yoked'.

Whilst I have said that my situation causes me anguish, I am to pray that this be alleviated as I trust in the Lord.

See above.

You're accusing my pastor and friend of being a mercenary whilst he is not here to defend himself. In his absence, I must assure you that, as God is my witness, he is a deeply committed and Godly man and that what you say is slanderous. Still, Christians are to expect this, Jesus warns of 'the accusers' and 'slanderers'. I pray for you, Swati.

 

Yes, I agree. Tarmac is, as far as I know, a man of faith, so I felt able to have a theological conversation with him. If I was speaking with the 'unchurched' or a child or a new believer or an inexperienced seeker, I would not use such language. Great theologians can often miss the simple beauty of childlike faith.

 

Mark 16:15

Like you say, you have to look at it from every angle.

 

Like a child pulling a rose apart petal by petal to see where the beauty resides, the theologian delves into faith until nothing remains but sad fragments. How do you square being both a theologian and a man of simple faith. Is it possible?

 

The tu quoque fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

 

Yes, a good question. For me (a lay theologian) study was a part of my journey from anti-theism to theism. It now proves useful as an apologetic tool. It's also bloomin' interesting! In terms of it blocking simple faith, I think there is a risk of that, but for me, when I am before God, it is my heart that speaks and not my mind. I endeavour to empty myself of wordly thoughts and commune with Him as a child would his loving father. I feel His love. I feel I am home.

 

That's because you brought him in here, not me. Check it for yourself in your #112:



I don't think it's very Christian to blame others for reacting on A, when the reaction is deliberately invited by the Christian; by bringing that A in- at first place. You offend your Christ and respectable pastor by bringing them here yourself, and then gathering abuse or strong opinions on them. You thrive on people's reaction, James. It doesn't matter to you if it's negative or positive.

Yes, pray for me as much as you like. Your time, your wish. Please yourself.

 

That's a very insightful response.

 

If an individual brings up Mr. Smith in conversation and a third party slanders Mr. Smith, it is the third party that commits slander, not the person who brings Mr. Smith in to conversation. I'm surprised this needs spelling out to you, Swati. Likewise, if I wish to discuss Jesus and a contributor to the discussion blasphemes His name, it is the contributor who dishonours God, not me as the initiator of the conversation. I trust this is plain enough language for you and your supporters.

 

 

I dont think there is any kind of support club going on here.... TH and I dont exactly see eye to eye (metaphorically) however she is making some very good points here.

You dishonour god by been too weak to follow his teachings on a daily basis. You saviour and lord surely deserves a bit more respect than you are giving him now?

For him to supposedly save you and make you reborn, I would say the least you could do is follow his commandments?

 

Oh and this is the daft thing about the fictional bible teachings.

You can find a paragraph to support or not support anything.

According to Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28 you are an adulterer too?

 

Just to be clear, I didn't originate this passage, just quoted it!

 

James, I'm not denying the responsibility of slandering A. I'm saying that you're responsible for that to happen. If you hadn't brought A here to justify your sinful* act, you wouldn't have had to say that "Oh, he's not here to defend himself and you're slagging him off behind his back..." etc. Thing is, I don't even know the geezer. What he did allow you to do, which you yourself inform that it's not really appreciated within your Christianity, then I will give my opinion on him and on you, whether you like it or not. You're responsible for bringing A into attention here, simple as. Anyone can see it, no matter how much you deny it.

* I don't think it's a sinful act, by the way. Not at all. I don't care what Christianity or any -ity/-ism says.

And no, I have no supporters backing me to slate you or anything. I'm just speaking my mind and others are having exchanges with you on their individual level, not any band wagon gang war against you. We happen to share some similar viewpoints here and there on the subject, and if that looks like a gang attack on you, then you may pray for yourself.

 

Can you unpack this for me, please?

 

JGlanzaV, I remember one argument with you, which I've forgotten all about TBH. Let's face it that we can't agree with one another all the time, and sometimes, situations can cause bad feelings, I admit. But they're not worth dwelling on imo. Anyway, I don't shy my eyes away from you. I don't fall out with anyone, if I can help it. No hard feelings, man.

 

You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, “Do not murder,” and “anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.” But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment … You have heard that it was said, “Do not commit adultery.” But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

— Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28 (NIV)

 

It's so obvious, Paben. James is a stunt master. Here we are, trapped in his stunt of posting a Christian video that he had already posted in past, and receiving a 4-5 pager response. It may even become a 10-pager with a bit of his luck! He knows what reaction he'd get here; with huge attention to his Christian self. He doesn't mind if it's negative or positive, he just loves to get people going with the bait he throws. Clever guy, in that sense. Gets what he wants.

 

I know I know.

Just a bit of a much needed 'intermission'.

 

I agree and this is convicting, thank you.

 

Yes, I know the verses. It's a high bar, that's for sure.

 

"The yearning to know what cannot be known, to comprehend the incomprehensible, to touch and taste the unapproachable, arises from the image of God in the nature of man.

Deep calleth unto deep, and though polluted and landlocked by the mighty disaster theologians call the Fall, the soul senses its origin and longs to return to its Source. How can this be realized? The answer of the Bible is simply “through Jesus Christ our Lord.” In Christ and by Christ, God effects complete self-disclosure, although He shows Himself not to reason but to faith and love. Faith is an organ of knowledge, and love an organ of experience.

God came to us in the incarnation; in atonement He reconciled us to Himself, and by faith and love we enter and lay hold on Him".

A.W.Tozer: [ The Knowledge of the Holy ]