So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
03 June 2022, 12:09 PM
#6931
Furthermore a big oversight of the sack and re-hire culture is the time required to re-hire anew. It assumed it could just recruit back from its former employee pool who are already trained/verified to do the role from the off.
Just like fuel tanker drivers - you cannot just employ anyone - they have to have the correct licence, training and certifications which means a big lead time from a potential candidate to a full employee.
Same with airport staff. Even a cleaner or bar staff needs a CRC check, that takes time. Most HR/recruitment agencies demand a 5year work history...just for a temp contract cleaner! Then of course training if inexperienced, and obligatory induction and shadowed supervision for that particular workplace once there...which is no good if there isn't a existing member of staff available to supervise because they sacked too many!
So shall we look overseas for foreign worker to do the job?...ahh, you need a visa, provide sponsorship and CRC checks making employment an even more protracted process. So lets ask the government to scrap visa and security checks so we can fast track stuff and have more airport staff...To be frank an airport is going to be one of the last places a government would want to be seen allowing casual rushed recruitment for the mere thought of that policy creating the fear of allowing incompetent idiots into jobs that could cause a plane crash or missing a rogue muslamic with a ray gun. Just as look at how that tiny notion of fear capitalised airport drop-offs from free into £5 for 5 mins parking! NCP's CEO Johnathon Scott (operator of BHX's drop off) must have been laughing in his swimming pool of money at how we fell for that!
That said, seems P&O ferries can do just that with their staff (or at least attempting to); How long will it before a random minimum wage agency worker mixes up the lock and unlock warning lamps on the bow doors controls! Seems sinking at sea is more acceptable than employing a sketchy airport bog cleaner!
Just like fuel tanker drivers - you cannot just employ anyone - they have to have the correct licence, training and certifications which means a big lead time from a potential candidate to a full employee.
Same with airport staff. Even a cleaner or bar staff needs a CRC check, that takes time. Most HR/recruitment agencies demand a 5year work history...just for a temp contract cleaner! Then of course training if inexperienced, and obligatory induction and shadowed supervision for that particular workplace once there...which is no good if there isn't a existing member of staff available to supervise because they sacked too many!
So shall we look overseas for foreign worker to do the job?...ahh, you need a visa, provide sponsorship and CRC checks making employment an even more protracted process. So lets ask the government to scrap visa and security checks so we can fast track stuff and have more airport staff...To be frank an airport is going to be one of the last places a government would want to be seen allowing casual rushed recruitment for the mere thought of that policy creating the fear of allowing incompetent idiots into jobs that could cause a plane crash or missing a rogue muslamic with a ray gun. Just as look at how that tiny notion of fear capitalised airport drop-offs from free into £5 for 5 mins parking! NCP's CEO Johnathon Scott (operator of BHX's drop off) must have been laughing in his swimming pool of money at how we fell for that!
That said, seems P&O ferries can do just that with their staff (or at least attempting to); How long will it before a random minimum wage agency worker mixes up the lock and unlock warning lamps on the bow doors controls! Seems sinking at sea is more acceptable than employing a sketchy airport bog cleaner!
03 June 2022, 01:15 PM
#6932
Scooby Regular
This is where Mr Ryan air was smart - to keep the required passenger to staff ratio he simply removed seats
I can vouch the above is true for hospitality industry , they sacked all their cleaning and chambermaids , tried to rehire them back after covid on silly coinditons and got two fingers salute
the hotels survive on some agency for this and its the same in the kitchens , skeleton staffing
the customers complain ALL the time , but the owners don't give a stuff , there's always another customer
they are creaming it
All result of the covid con like the brexshoite con
- designed to move power away from the individual and into the hands of the extremely wealthy
I can vouch the above is true for hospitality industry , they sacked all their cleaning and chambermaids , tried to rehire them back after covid on silly coinditons and got two fingers salute
the hotels survive on some agency for this and its the same in the kitchens , skeleton staffing
the customers complain ALL the time , but the owners don't give a stuff , there's always another customer
they are creaming it
All result of the covid con like the brexshoite con
- designed to move power away from the individual and into the hands of the extremely wealthy
Last edited by IdonthaveaScooby; 03 June 2022 at 01:27 PM.
03 June 2022, 03:11 PM
#6933
Scooby Senior
I agree with the security issues making harder to quickly recruit new staff, but this was already a big problem at Easter and the airports simply can't recruit anyone on the wages they are currently willing/able to pay.
Doing security checks on EU workers also becomes much harder now as Brexit has lost us access to the Schengen Information System, even though this could have been retained with the same deal if Johnson wasn't so incompetent and short-sited!
The real root of the problem though is the current record high number of job vacancies coupled with record low unemployment = not enough workers to do all the jobs!
The solution is we all get producing babies and then wait 16+ years for them to enter the workforce or we let in more migrants! This government won't let in more migrants because it means admitting the Brexit disaster, so looks like baby making it is!
Doing security checks on EU workers also becomes much harder now as Brexit has lost us access to the Schengen Information System, even though this could have been retained with the same deal if Johnson wasn't so incompetent and short-sited!
The real root of the problem though is the current record high number of job vacancies coupled with record low unemployment = not enough workers to do all the jobs!
The solution is we all get producing babies and then wait 16+ years for them to enter the workforce or we let in more migrants! This government won't let in more migrants because it means admitting the Brexit disaster, so looks like baby making it is!
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04 June 2022, 11:01 AM
#6934
And there in lies the core issues. The UK's employers has long relied on a excess of labour, and by doing so pay as little as possible and make it easy to get rid of employees as and when, and not care about work morale, ethics or conditions so long as it's legal and doesn't harm productivity/profitability.
This is what led to the ideology of unions and mass strikes; If you removed the excess of employees from the pool, you turn the tables to create a leverage tool to encourage employers to improve pay, conditions and job security. At best get government to change policy in your favour, at worst the government changes things to work against you. When there is a lack of employees, those employees can negotiate on their terms.
The problem arises when we import labour; People from overseas see these jobs as good opportunities as the pay and conditions are better than their home country, of which living costs and standards are likely lower. Whilst the UK's living costs are increasing. Employers see no needs to improve pay, conditions or job security when it can pluck from a pool of folk happy to work on those poor terms.
Migrant labour is part of a Thatcherite policy (not necessarily introduced by Thatcher, but her undermining of worker movements provided the foundations where as we progressed in to the EC/EEC/EU, employee's wage and conditions were only improved if they forced by government to provide laws to enforce it by raising minimum wages and legal obligations, but still providing loopholes to exploit (short term contracts, P&O registering in Cyprus etc)...When you have successive governments that fail to represent the needs of its people over the needs of agency employers you create a home born resentment of foreign workers, despite them being the only option as corporate inefficiency remains rife.
The TLDR; It should not be cheaper and/or more convenient for a employer to employ a worker from overseas. Minimum take-home wage and contractual conditions needs improving first.
This is what led to the ideology of unions and mass strikes; If you removed the excess of employees from the pool, you turn the tables to create a leverage tool to encourage employers to improve pay, conditions and job security. At best get government to change policy in your favour, at worst the government changes things to work against you. When there is a lack of employees, those employees can negotiate on their terms.
The problem arises when we import labour; People from overseas see these jobs as good opportunities as the pay and conditions are better than their home country, of which living costs and standards are likely lower. Whilst the UK's living costs are increasing. Employers see no needs to improve pay, conditions or job security when it can pluck from a pool of folk happy to work on those poor terms.
Migrant labour is part of a Thatcherite policy (not necessarily introduced by Thatcher, but her undermining of worker movements provided the foundations where as we progressed in to the EC/EEC/EU, employee's wage and conditions were only improved if they forced by government to provide laws to enforce it by raising minimum wages and legal obligations, but still providing loopholes to exploit (short term contracts, P&O registering in Cyprus etc)...When you have successive governments that fail to represent the needs of its people over the needs of agency employers you create a home born resentment of foreign workers, despite them being the only option as corporate inefficiency remains rife.
The TLDR; It should not be cheaper and/or more convenient for a employer to employ a worker from overseas. Minimum take-home wage and contractual conditions needs improving first.
04 June 2022, 11:09 AM
#6935
And there in lies the core issues. The UK's employers has long relied on a excess of labour, and by doing so pay as little as possible and make it easy to get rid of employees as and when, and not care about work morale, ethics or conditions so long as it's legal and doesn't harm productivity/profitability.
This is what led to the ideology of unions and mass strikes; If you removed the excess of employees from the pool, you turn the tables to create a leverage tool to encourage employers to improve pay, conditions and job security. At best get government to change policy in your favour, at worst the government changes things to work against you. When there is a lack of employees, those employees can negotiate on their terms.
The problem arises when we import labour; People from overseas see these jobs as good opportunities as the pay and conditions are better than their home country, of which living costs and standards are likely lower. Whilst the UK's living costs are increasing. Employers see no needs to improve pay, conditions or job security when it can pluck from a pool of folk happy to work on those poor terms.
Migrant labour is part of a Thatcherite policy (not necessarily introduced by Thatcher, but her undermining of worker movements provided the foundations where as we progressed in to the EC/EEC/EU, employee's wage and conditions were only improved if they forced by government to provide laws to enforce it by raising minimum wages and legal obligations, but still providing loopholes to exploit (short term contracts, P&O registering in Cyprus etc)...When you have successive governments that fail to represent the needs of its people over the needs of agency employers you create a home born resentment of foreign workers, despite them being the only option as corporate inefficiency remains rife.
The TLDR; It should not be cheaper and/or more convenient for a employer to employ a worker from overseas. Minimum take-home wage and contractual conditions needs improving first.
This is what led to the ideology of unions and mass strikes; If you removed the excess of employees from the pool, you turn the tables to create a leverage tool to encourage employers to improve pay, conditions and job security. At best get government to change policy in your favour, at worst the government changes things to work against you. When there is a lack of employees, those employees can negotiate on their terms.
The problem arises when we import labour; People from overseas see these jobs as good opportunities as the pay and conditions are better than their home country, of which living costs and standards are likely lower. Whilst the UK's living costs are increasing. Employers see no needs to improve pay, conditions or job security when it can pluck from a pool of folk happy to work on those poor terms.
Migrant labour is part of a Thatcherite policy (not necessarily introduced by Thatcher, but her undermining of worker movements provided the foundations where as we progressed in to the EC/EEC/EU, employee's wage and conditions were only improved if they forced by government to provide laws to enforce it by raising minimum wages and legal obligations, but still providing loopholes to exploit (short term contracts, P&O registering in Cyprus etc)...When you have successive governments that fail to represent the needs of its people over the needs of agency employers you create a home born resentment of foreign workers, despite them being the only option as corporate inefficiency remains rife.
The TLDR; It should not be cheaper and/or more convenient for a employer to employ a worker from overseas. Minimum take-home wage and contractual conditions needs improving first.
04 June 2022, 01:04 PM
#6936
Not so; we can only apply work migration phenomenons on the modern UK economy as it exists today. You cannot compare it to anything before the 1960's for a whole plethora of reasons...to do so IS an over simplification....
Historically UK Towns as we know today were often formed upon what raw earth resource it had nearby and those that moved there to exploit it, employee rights were non existent as was welfare. You worked, or died from malnutrition...or maybe both. The likes of BLM movements in the UK are quick to forget white slavery also existed less than 100years ago. Poverty was rife, The West Midlands nail makers as an example were labelled as the slaves of England ( https://www.bromsgroveadvertiser.co....t-a-happy-one/ ), similar said of chain making as mechanisation came in and banks/insurers forced in law to test links which could be only done at the large forges. Mining, of course. Ship yards etc. I say all this because this is the situation where many of us came from, and modern day cost of living is drawing parallels to a situation where some of us end up working as hard as ever yet affording less, whilst employers allegedly scream out for more workers.
Post WW2 Britain was about rebuilding and betterment and eventually the 60's and 70's saw way to the much needed infrastructure, industry, healthcare and educational to which a lot of it we still rely on, but at the same time of all those new houses, new roads and new cars, those on minimal wages and long hours/poor conditions still struggled. History shows what happens. Some did monopolise on it, and we've suffered for it.
The rise and dismantlement of worker empowerment started in the late 70's and was progressively eroded in the Thatcher era; I never said it was her policy or idea, just that was the era it started to unfold and has continued throughout as the UK became increasingly de-industrialised.
Before the EU the UK relied on labour from the former commonwealth, the fall of British India and Africanisation of Kenya etc. Facilitating in creating a surplus employee pool. They were exploited, and not enough was done to address unemployment when it spiralled, creating resentment of employers, leaders and also facilitated a racist under class. Then when things looked as if they were settling down (despite high unemployment), we only went and did it again with Poland and Romania, and we found ourselves being treated as disposable or competing against someone who'll work more for less. This is not the answer; Opening of floodgates without foreseeing excessive employee surplus and the employer's lust for the lowest common denominator needs to end, and that requires complete rethink of how the UK employer-employee relationship exists.
04 June 2022, 01:28 PM
#6937
Scooby Regular
Thatcher commoditised housing thorough council house sell off , this is half the problem
everything is based on arbitrary perceived value of your house
its all bull****
everything is based on arbitrary perceived value of your house
its all bull****
04 June 2022, 09:25 PM
#6938
Right to buy at the time it was introduced was actually a good idea; In a time of surplus, off load the burden of maintaining ageing houses to those who could now afford to buy them. The big problems came when successive governments didn't police or regulate it properly so the scheme wasn't aligned with level of stock and not realistically linked to their current valuations and allowed welfare crooks to buy them. Housing shortage actually started under Major as the recession killed off building and it continued under Blair, yet just as it was being addressed under Brown the financial sector crashed, stopped lending and builders stopped building again.
The monetisation of the private housing sector though again is a unreformed Thatcher travesty that sought to only benefit the financial sectors, and it continues to this day. As of 2019, 11million houses were mortgaged. As of Q1 of 2021, Mortgage loans were worth £1.56 trillion... just factor the interest on that! It was always the grand plan for the public to "rent" their house off a bank, albeit the bank doesn't have to maintain it, the renter (mortgage payer) does. It's in everyone's interest to inflate their value as more money, more interest, more profit. The only bigger loser is the private renter whose rent is likely paying their landlord's mortgage! And maybe those help to buy and leasehold traps.
I continue to be baffled at UK house prices. Outside of London or in-demand areas the value does not equate to the cost of the land, the materials/quality or the area desirability. I nearly bought a crappy terrace for £10K in a crappy area, 15 years later the same crappy terrace still in a crappy area is worth £100k still crappy albeit with a naff b&q kitchen, just what the f**k? Trying not to be all escape to the château here, but look at what that gets you in France https://www.frenchestateagents.com/f...arentes-france
Just how do we reverse this economic damage and re-align property value without kicking ourselves in the *****?
The monetisation of the private housing sector though again is a unreformed Thatcher travesty that sought to only benefit the financial sectors, and it continues to this day. As of 2019, 11million houses were mortgaged. As of Q1 of 2021, Mortgage loans were worth £1.56 trillion... just factor the interest on that! It was always the grand plan for the public to "rent" their house off a bank, albeit the bank doesn't have to maintain it, the renter (mortgage payer) does. It's in everyone's interest to inflate their value as more money, more interest, more profit. The only bigger loser is the private renter whose rent is likely paying their landlord's mortgage! And maybe those help to buy and leasehold traps.
I continue to be baffled at UK house prices. Outside of London or in-demand areas the value does not equate to the cost of the land, the materials/quality or the area desirability. I nearly bought a crappy terrace for £10K in a crappy area, 15 years later the same crappy terrace still in a crappy area is worth £100k still crappy albeit with a naff b&q kitchen, just what the f**k? Trying not to be all escape to the château here, but look at what that gets you in France https://www.frenchestateagents.com/f...arentes-france
Just how do we reverse this economic damage and re-align property value without kicking ourselves in the *****?
Last edited by ALi-B; 04 June 2022 at 09:26 PM.
04 June 2022, 09:36 PM
#6939
Scooby Regular
Slavery implies complete control over persons existence , I cant see his was the case with nailworkers or else
I think mixing up equal opportunities anyway , theres a number places under thus monarchs rule where the colour of your skin Would deny you a job in not so distant past
I think mixing up equal opportunities anyway , theres a number places under thus monarchs rule where the colour of your skin Would deny you a job in not so distant past
20 June 2022, 03:12 PM
#6943
Scooby Senior
The Northern Irish economy traditionally under-performs compared to the rest of the UK, but for some reason (surely not being part of the EU customs union), they are significantly outperforming every part of the UK except for London. No wonder the Tory Government and the DUP want to tear up the NI Protocol!
https://www.politico.eu/article/nort...rexit-britain/
Other than London and NI which saw decent levels of growth, only two other UK regions saw any growth whatsoever. The nationwide picture is looking pretty grim with zero growth forecast for the UK in 2023 and quite possible recession. The UK economic forecast is placed 19th out of the G20 with only sanctions hit Russia with a worse economic outlook. In the G7, the UK is bottom!
https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-o...ery-g20-russia
https://www.politico.eu/article/nort...rexit-britain/
Other than London and NI which saw decent levels of growth, only two other UK regions saw any growth whatsoever. The nationwide picture is looking pretty grim with zero growth forecast for the UK in 2023 and quite possible recession. The UK economic forecast is placed 19th out of the G20 with only sanctions hit Russia with a worse economic outlook. In the G7, the UK is bottom!
https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-o...ery-g20-russia
26 July 2022, 09:14 AM
#6945
Scooby Senior
Interesting that the people who wanted to take back control of our borders are now complaining that the French have control over their borders!
Last edited by BMWhere?; 26 July 2022 at 09:16 AM.
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25 August 2022, 06:47 PM
#6946
Scooby Regular
K’inell
Tory brexit ******* now so desperate to kill off asylum seekers we are now going to hire Albanian thugs to round up these poor *******s
Tory brexit ******* now so desperate to kill off asylum seekers we are now going to hire Albanian thugs to round up these poor *******s
04 September 2022, 11:50 AM
#6947
Scooby Regular
What happened to Andy 
Maybe business was in fact killed off by his precious Brexit
or he's been mown down by silent leccy vehicle while out biking
Maybe business was in fact killed off by his precious Brexit
or he's been mown down by silent leccy vehicle while out biking
17 September 2022, 02:59 PM
#6949
18 September 2022, 08:10 PM
#6951
Scooby Senior
Ree-Smogg desperate to find some Brexit benefits...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ltation-brexit
Kwasi Kwarteng didn't take long to find one (the real reason why the Tories wanted Brexit all along)!
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/l...-b1025936.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ltation-brexit
Kwasi Kwarteng didn't take long to find one (the real reason why the Tories wanted Brexit all along)!
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/l...-b1025936.html
05 October 2022, 07:48 PM
#6952
Scooby Regular
Farmers not making ends meet , what a surprise not
What are the chances the ordinary worker is going to be living on intensively reared produce from US and Australia sooner or later ?
while posh nosh brexiters get theirs from farm shops
What are the chances the ordinary worker is going to be living on intensively reared produce from US and Australia sooner or later ?
while posh nosh brexiters get theirs from farm shops
09 November 2022, 08:39 AM
#6954
Scooby Regular
The THRID time Williamson's been ejected from the cabinet , what kind of idiots are we to elect this lot into government
second time for braverman , she'll be out soon no doubt
their only response
a pathetic dig at smeared to **** Corbyn , who wouldn't have got us into this mess
second time for braverman , she'll be out soon no doubt
their only response
a pathetic dig at smeared to **** Corbyn , who wouldn't have got us into this mess
11 November 2022, 07:44 AM
#6956
11 November 2022, 08:42 AM
#6957
Scooby Regular
He's saying let me have dirt cheap labour , cos otherwise my salary is affected and I might have to close
but dont let these 'unts have any immigration status and let them live on the streets while they are here
but dont let these 'unts have any immigration status and let them live on the streets while they are here
11 November 2022, 09:26 AM
#6958
The whole EU migrant issue could have been resolved if only there was a UK public consultation and referendum on the 2005 accession of the EU to incorporate Eastern Europe at the time it happened. As a non-Schengen country we likely could have vetoed it.
Still not learnt a single thing and the race to get someone to work for the lowest wage continues - but without the employee surplus to dip into. Suck it up Wolfy, you got exactly what you asked for....Unless he now wants us to ship in some boatloads from the former commonwealth (again
).
Still not learnt a single thing and the race to get someone to work for the lowest wage continues - but without the employee surplus to dip into. Suck it up Wolfy, you got exactly what you asked for....Unless he now wants us to ship in some boatloads from the former commonwealth (again
).
13 November 2022, 08:05 PM
#6960
The whole EU migrant issue could have been resolved if only there was a UK public consultation and referendum on the 2005 accession of the EU to incorporate Eastern Europe at the time it happened. As a non-Schengen country we likely could have vetoed it.
Still not learnt a single thing and the race to get someone to work for the lowest wage continues - but without the employee surplus to dip into. Suck it up Wolfy, you got exactly what you asked for....Unless he now wants us to ship in some boatloads from the former commonwealth (again ).
Still not learnt a single thing and the race to get someone to work for the lowest wage continues - but without the employee surplus to dip into. Suck it up Wolfy, you got exactly what you asked for....Unless he now wants us to ship in some boatloads from the former commonwealth (again
).Last edited by markjmd; 14 November 2022 at 07:51 AM.