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Old 02 December 2016, 08:03 PM
  #661  
Geezer
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Originally Posted by alcazar
You just don't get it do you?

Obtuse, or plain daft, I dunno. But here, in simple terms is "my point".

1. Pensioners have paid in all their lives, they continue to pay taxes so supporting the system, during their all too often brief pension life.
Correct, but so what?

Originally Posted by alcazar
They probably had children who CONTINUE to pay into the system. Maybe even grandchildren, ditto. But NOT all at once.
Correct, so what? An immigrant comes here and starts to pay tax. That's how it works.

Originally Posted by alcazar
2. Migrants come over here, work for next to nowt, often on the black (no taxes), and often living ten or more to a house...no council taxes.
At last, showing your true colours! There's plenty of UK people who don't pay tax, and I ain't talking about the super wealthy with good accountants. I have been offered loads f services 'for cash', or I can do it properly but for more. It's not difficult to see why that is. But, to you that's ok, but not for those dirty foreigners, eh?

Originally Posted by alcazar
Their children clog up our schools, they themselves clog up the health service and they clog up the infrastructure. This country CANNOT support a city bigger than Cardiff arriving every year. Not enough housing, school places, doctors, hospitals, dentists and above all SPACE!
You really shouldn't believe everything you read. The lack of investment in our educational and health system is a shocker, but it reall wouldn't be much better if we had no immigration.

There was a guy on Question Time last night like, complaining about this, until it was pointed out to him that Wakefield, where he came from, was 95% white. He looked a bit of c**t really. Actually, was it you?

Originally Posted by alcazar
A quick visit to ONS will show that the idea that it's an ageing population as the problem is just wrong. the younger population is growing faster than the old, and it's NOT down to more live births.
Yet you fail to realise that an ageing person is considerably more of a drain on the NHS than a young immigrant? Everyone in the country seem to realise that the ageing population is a problem.

Originally Posted by alcazar
Still, IAJFEE rules as it always does.....if it doesn't affect YOU, fek the others and how they are affected. Why should YOU care, YOUR ideology is sound...isn't it?
Change the record, it was dull and uninteresting when you started it, it really hasn't improved

Still, all the less well off will be fooked after Brexit, the very same people who wanted it because they believe the same sort of tripe you peddle.

I probably will be ok, yes, doesn't mean I don't have concern for the people who won't, even if they did vote i upon themselves.
Old 02 December 2016, 08:25 PM
  #662  
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Originally Posted by Geezer
Correct, but so what?



Correct, so what? An immigrant comes here and starts to pay tax. That's how it works.



At last, showing your true colours! There's plenty of UK people who don't pay tax, and I ain't talking about the super wealthy with good accountants. I have been offered loads f services 'for cash', or I can do it properly but for more. It's not difficult to see why that is. But, to you that's ok, but not for those dirty foreigners, eh?



You really shouldn't believe everything you read. The lack of investment in our educational and health system is a shocker, but it reall wouldn't be much better if we had no immigration.

There was a guy on Question Time last night like, complaining about this, until it was pointed out to him that Wakefield, where he came from, was 95% white. He looked a bit of c**t really. Actually, was it you?



Yet you fail to realise that an ageing person is considerably more of a drain on the NHS than a young immigrant? Everyone in the country seem to realise that the ageing population is a problem.




Still, all the less well off will be fooked after Brexit, the very same people who wanted it because they believe the same sort of tripe you peddle.


I probably will be ok, yes, doesn't mean I don't have concern for the people who won't, even if they did vote i upon themselves.
You're wasting your breath, he's 'A' typical Englander that is unable to comprehend this GREAT BRITAIN was built on the back of immigrants whether that be those that are here or those that will come, and that for the most part it was built in the days of the Empire when the brits went around the world and screwed just about everyone to make their Great Britain.

Now that ALL the chickens are coming home to roost it's a bitter pill to swallow, so he jumps up and down screaming at everything and everyone alien, legal or illegal.

He's the resident Victor Meldrew and he just "Can't believe it"
Old 02 December 2016, 08:38 PM
  #663  
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Originally Posted by Geezer
Correct, but so what?



Correct, so what? An immigrant comes here and starts to pay tax. That's how it works.



At last, showing your true colours! There's plenty of UK people who don't pay tax, and I ain't talking about the super wealthy with good accountants. I have been offered loads f services 'for cash', or I can do it properly but for more. It's not difficult to see why that is. But, to you that's ok, but not for those dirty foreigners, eh?



You really shouldn't believe everything you read. The lack of investment in our educational and health system is a shocker, but it reall wouldn't be much better if we had no immigration.

There was a guy on Question Time last night like, complaining about this, until it was pointed out to him that Wakefield, where he came from, was 95% white. He looked a bit of c**t really. Actually, was it you?



Yet you fail to realise that an ageing person is considerably more of a drain on the NHS than a young immigrant? Everyone in the country seem to realise that the ageing population is a problem.



Change the record, it was dull and uninteresting when you started it, it really hasn't improved

Still, all the less well off will be fooked after Brexit, the very same people who wanted it because they believe the same sort of tripe you peddle.

I probably will be ok, yes, doesn't mean I don't have concern for the people who won't, even if they did vote i upon themselves.
agreed, your are wasting your breath/time

and the bolded - is actually the crux of it all
Old 04 December 2016, 10:27 PM
  #664  
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Originally Posted by alcazar
You just don't get it do you?

Obtuse, or plain daft, I dunno. But here, in simple terms is "my point".

1. Pensioners have paid in all their lives, they continue to pay taxes so supporting the system, during their all too often brief pension life.

They probably had children who CONTINUE to pay into the system. Maybe even grandchildren, ditto. But NOT all at once.

2. Migrants come over here, work for next to nowt, often on the black (no taxes), and often living ten or more to a house...no council taxes.
Their children clog up our schools, they themselves clog up the health service and they clog up the infrastructure. This country CANNOT support a city bigger than Cardiff arriving every year. Not enough housing, school places, doctors, hospitals, dentists and above all SPACE!

A quick visit to ONS will show that the idea that it's an ageing population as the problem is just wrong. the younger population is growing faster than the old, and it's NOT down to more live births.

Still, IAJFEE rules as it always does.....if it doesn't affect YOU, fek the others and how they are affected. Why should YOU care, YOUR ideology is sound...isn't it?

I've higlighted the bit where your argument falls on its ar$e!

Pensioners are living longer and longer and the population is decreasing. Those posioners did not have enough children and their children are not having enough children and having them later in life. So for the ever aging population, there are not enough people paying in to the pensions pot to be sustainable.

Here are the government figures for birth rates in England and Wales. In 2015 the birth rate was 1.82 children per mother, below the critical 2 children required to simply sustain the population. The figure has been below 2 since the mid 70's.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulati...dandwales/2015

Of particular importance is point number 7:

The percentage of live births in England and Wales to mothers born outside the UK continued to rise in 2015, reaching 27.5%; this percentage has increased every year since 1990, when it was 11.6%.

In recent years, the proportion of births to women born outside the UK has been higher than the proportion of the female population of childbearing age born outside the UK.
Old 05 December 2016, 10:01 AM
  #665  
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7447016.html


one good thing about Boris


youd have be **** to oppose such an idea ,wouldn't you ?

Last edited by dpb; 05 December 2016 at 05:36 PM.
Old 05 December 2016, 01:12 PM
  #666  
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Originally Posted by alcazar
A quick visit to ONS will show that the idea that it's an ageing population as the problem is just wrong. the younger population is growing faster than the old, and it's NOT down to more live births.
The aging population problem being fixed by immigrant children clogging up our schools and young able-bodied immigrants taking "our" jobs
Old 05 December 2016, 04:00 PM
  #667  
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I think it's more about how immigration is controlled. I don't think people have a problem with immigrants coming to the country if they are providing a service such as being a doctor or nurse etc. It's the ones who come to the uk and not lift a finger but then still claim benefits and use our NHS services without giving anything back.
Old 05 December 2016, 04:24 PM
  #668  
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Its the exploding population indigenous baby factories,quite happy without a job thankyou, that's just as much a problem !!

Last edited by dpb; 05 December 2016 at 04:27 PM.
Old 05 December 2016, 05:35 PM
  #669  
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Grab a bit of yesteryear , when Europe ruled the waves lol and Mr 'Charismatic' Berlusconi was in charge ( of corruption)

being out the eu - such any easy fix ( in your mind anyway)

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/...cid=spartanntp
Old 05 December 2016, 06:56 PM
  #670  
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Originally Posted by ditchmyster
You're wasting your breath, he's 'A' typical Englander that is unable to comprehend this GREAT BRITAIN was built on the back of immigrants whether that be those that are here or those that will come, and that for the most part it was built in the days of the Empire when the brits went around the world and screwed just about everyone to make their Great Britain.

Now that ALL the chickens are coming home to roost it's a bitter pill to swallow, so he jumps up and down screaming at everything and everyone alien, legal or illegal.

He's the resident Victor Meldrew and he just "Can't believe it"
Say's Honest Bob
You have been found out more times than a blind fold hide and seek in an empty round room.

Last edited by The Trooper 1815; 05 December 2016 at 06:57 PM.
Old 06 December 2016, 08:35 AM
  #671  
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Originally Posted by Matty81
I think it's more about how immigration is controlled. I don't think people have a problem with immigrants coming to the country if they are providing a service such as being a doctor or nurse etc. It's the ones who come to the uk and not lift a finger but then still claim benefits and use our NHS services without giving anything back.
like most things in this debate, this has very little to do with the EU

the government has the tools with all the existing laws (EU and UK) to stop/prevent this

the big question is why have the UK government blamed the failures of the UK government on the EU for the last 40 years
Old 06 December 2016, 08:48 AM
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I think it's because the government doesn't explain these things to the tax payer or show to the tax payer that they are doing anything about it. If you take Australia for example, they have strict laws on this, and if you want to work in their country that want to know everything about you. Whereas in the uk they turn a blind eye to things like that because they don't want the paperwork. We've become a lazy nation over the last few years, and it needs to stop if we want to improve as a country.
Old 06 December 2016, 09:02 AM
  #673  
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There's not much logic/sense in what you've written.

Maybe you'd prefer us to shoot up possible infiltrators like they do off Aus

Last edited by dpb; 06 December 2016 at 09:04 AM.
Old 06 December 2016, 10:11 AM
  #674  
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Originally Posted by Matty81
I think it's because the government doesn't explain these things to the tax payer or show to the tax payer that they are doing anything about it. If you take Australia for example, they have strict laws on this, and if you want to work in their country that want to know everything about you. Whereas in the uk they turn a blind eye to things like that because they don't want the paperwork. We've become a lazy nation over the last few years, and it needs to stop if we want to improve as a country.
yes I don't disagree

which is why the "remain" campaign was fatally flawed

it should have been honest and simply said

"we know as a UK government we have failed you - it has nothing really to do with the EU, but our divisive, short term economic policies, our economic performance is too dependant on short term policies, lack of infrastructure investment, an over reliance on the financial and services sector, a lack of a true regional industrial policy, a fantasy job market - with low paid zero hour (illegal in most of the EU) workers making an ever increasing part of our job market etc etc etc"



but off course they were never going to admit to that - easier to blame either overtly or by implication the EU
Old 06 December 2016, 01:10 PM
  #675  
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http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/...cid=spartandhp


send in rees mogg, hes posh they'll listen to him

Old 07 December 2016, 11:01 AM
  #676  
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Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815
Say's Honest Bob
You have been found out more times than a blind fold hide and seek in an empty round room.
Oh dear another fool following me around spouting rubbish, ball sack lick my.

P.S; Quite ironic that you used an analogy of being blind folded when you're basically a clown who's life choices have led to being some nameless faceless persons blind puppet.

Now do us both and the site a favour and leave me out of your silly little name calling and potshot sniping.

See what I did there.

Last edited by ditchmyster; 07 December 2016 at 11:50 AM.
Old 07 December 2016, 01:10 PM
  #677  
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isn't this whole brexit **** rapidly becoming the most boring bollocks ever
Old 07 December 2016, 01:18 PM
  #678  
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Originally Posted by dpb
isn't this whole brexit **** rapidly becoming the most boring bollocks ever
Just a touch. Though it should get more entertaining once the negotiations start and it becomes more apparent the EU holds all the cards.
Old 07 December 2016, 02:18 PM
  #679  
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Isn't the No vote in Italy over political reform a pre-curser to their own in/out vote?
Old 07 December 2016, 02:28 PM
  #680  
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Originally Posted by dpb
isn't this whole brexit **** rapidly becoming the most boring bollocks ever

Don't be silly. The last few weeks have just been a taster for the next 10 years as EU rub our noses in it big time. And then as negotiations get us nowhere it will dawn on the great British public that Brexit was a Grade 1 disaster only to be told that Chapter 50 probably cannot be reversed. Happy days David
Old 07 December 2016, 02:55 PM
  #681  
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Originally Posted by David Lock
Don't be silly. The last few weeks have just been a taster for the next 10 years as EU rub our noses in it big time. And then as negotiations get us nowhere it will dawn on the great British public that Brexit was a Grade 1 disaster only to be told that Chapter 50 probably cannot be reversed. Happy days David

Oh it can, we can re-apply to join. The we have to have Euro and Schengen too!


That said, I imagine our economy will be so fooked, we won't meet the minimum criteria to be accepted by the EU!
Old 07 December 2016, 03:10 PM
  #682  
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It's just some kind mexican standoff now, for next several months

Just about everybody in/ out,shake it all about, knows what can be had and what can't

Outers presumably preying they're vindicated by rest eu falling apart within that time, and some romantic new world order implemented

Last edited by dpb; 07 December 2016 at 03:59 PM.
Old 07 December 2016, 03:28 PM
  #683  
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Originally Posted by neil-h
Just a touch. Though it should get more entertaining once the negotiations start and it becomes more apparent the EU holds all the cards.
yes I suspect the saner heads in the government are beginning to work this out!!!

nothing will convince the ideologues obviously

as ever the easiest option will be to blame the EU, - presumably for simply enforcing their well known rules - why change the habit of a lifetime
Old 07 December 2016, 04:48 PM
  #684  
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Originally Posted by EddScott
Isn't the No vote in Italy over political reform a pre-curser to their own in/out vote?
Nope, it was simply a referendum on changing the Italian constitution to reduce the power of the senate and hand it to the prime minister instead. Not really surprising the Italians rejected it!

Because the Italian PM was very pro-Europe and because the Anti-EU 5-star movement opposed the bill, right wing parties accross Europe and the British press are trying to spin it into something its not!

Its also funny how the Austrian vote which dealt a crushing blow for the right and anti-EU factions has generally been swept under the carpet. Norbert Hofer's defeat last weekend was far more substantial than in the first running of the election in the Summer giving clear indications that, post-Brexit, many Europeans are rejecting the right and taking a more pro-Europe stance. Even Hofer realised this and changed his stance from the Summer of wanting to leave the EU to only wanting to leave if more power is succeeded to the EU.
Old 07 December 2016, 08:40 PM
  #685  
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Hofer did lose, but wasn't trounced. 46% voted for him. Renzi is a EU supporter, his gamble to change the constitution was trounced at 60% saying NO. Italy cannot sustain staying in the Euro currency. Its only a matter of time before it leaves. This will be either the banks fail, or opposition get in and force the leaving of the Euro.

Its not all rosey in the EU. The eastern block has grouped together ignoring the EU migrant quotas, French will be right wing government next year. The Dutch could go with Wilders. Germany has turned about face and is sending back huge numbers of migrants, calling for banning the burka, symbolic but rather eye opening for Germany to be calling for it after all open door policy of last year. Meanwhile Labour has signed up to timetable for article 50 by March 17.

Did I mention Greece, a complete basket case and hasn't made the necessary changes agreed by Germany and Eu, bound to be kicked out at some point. Then there is Turkey lining up thousands of boats to send hundreds of thousands of migrants held in Turkey into Europe if Erdogan loses his patience with the EU back peddling on the deal struck with him.

Lots of hurdles wouldn't you say
Old 07 December 2016, 10:07 PM
  #686  
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Just over 15% of the countries population are keen to see the return of the lira
Old 07 December 2016, 10:59 PM
  #687  
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Originally Posted by andy97
Hofer did lose, but wasn't trounced. 46% voted for him.
Thats a much bigger margin than Brexit

You also have to remember that Van Der Bellen is an OAP chainsmoker with zero charisma. It was very similar to the Trump V Clinton election where nobody really wanted either candidate, but this time Clinton won!

Last edited by BMWhere?; 07 December 2016 at 11:01 PM.
Old 08 December 2016, 06:22 AM
  #688  
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Default MP's who want to thwart UK leaving the EU

The 89 MPs who voted AGAINST the UK leaving the EU

CONSERVATIVE - 1

Ken Clarke (Rushcliffe)

LABOUR - 23

Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow)

Graham Allen (Nottingham North)

Ben Bradshaw (Exeter)

Ann Coffey (Stockport)

Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark)

Stella Creasy (Walthamstow)

Geraint Davies (Swansea West)

Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge)

Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)

Chris Evans (Islwyn)

Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme)

Mike Gapes (Ilford South)

Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood)

Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch)

Peter Kyle (Hove)

David Lammy (Tottenham)

Chris Leslie (Nottingham East)

Ian Murray (Edinburgh South)

Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield)

Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn)

Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge)

Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green)

Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge)

LIBERAL DEMOCRAT - 5

Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland)

Nick Clegg (Sheffield Hallam)

Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale)

Sarah Olney (Richmond Park)

Mark Williams (Ceredigion)

GREEN PARTY - 1

Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion)

SDLP - 3

Mark Durkam (Foyle)

Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South)

Margaret Ritchie (South Down)

INDEPENDENT - 2

Natalie McGarry (Glasgow East)

Michelle Thomson (Edinburgh West)

PLAID CYMRU - 3

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Hywel Williams (Arfon)

SNP - 51

Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire)

Hannah Bardell (Livingston)

Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South)

Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber)

Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North)

Philip Boswell (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill)

Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith)

Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun)

Lisa Cameron (East Kilbridge, Strathaven and Lesmahagow)

Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife)

Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West)

Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde)

Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East)

Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk)

Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire)

Stuart Blair Donaldson (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)

Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw)

Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West)

Stephen Gethins (North East Fife)

Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran)

Patrick Grady (Glasgow North)

Peter Grant (Glenrothes)

Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts)

Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey)

Stewart Hosie (Dundee East)

George Kerevan (East Lothian)

Calum Kerr (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)

Chris Law (Dundee West)

Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar)

John McNally (Falkirk)

Callum McCaig (Aberdeen South)

Stuart McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East)

Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East)

Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West)

Paul Monaghan (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross)

Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)

Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North)

John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire)

Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute)

Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire)

Steven Paterson (Stirling)

Angus Robertson (Moray)

Alex Salmond (Gordon)

Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East)

Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West)

Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central)

Mike Weir (Angus)

Eilidh Whitford (Banff and Buchan)

Corri Wilson (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)

Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire)


Those English MP's which are out of London area and not in a strong remain voting area better watch out for their seats come 2020 election

Last edited by andy97; 08 December 2016 at 06:47 AM.
Old 08 December 2016, 06:41 AM
  #689  
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Originally Posted by dpb
Just over 15% of the countries population are keen to see the return of the lira
funny that a quick search finds 47% want the lira,https://euobserver.com/news/126285 . Given the thumping result against Pro Eu Renzi, I very much doubt it less now. Its not if Italy leaves the Euro but when.

The only country that really benefits from the Euro is Germany. In fact it should be Germany France and the bigger nations should leave and start a currency, lets call it the 'Mark'

Last edited by andy97; 08 December 2016 at 06:43 AM.
Old 08 December 2016, 08:26 AM
  #690  
dpb
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What amazes me is the cast iron faith that leaving Euro will automatically end recession!


Quick Reply: So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.



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