BMWhere?

Nice theory, but did you miss the bit in March where parliament took control to stop a no deal brexit?

The reality of the current parliament is the government is unable to maintain control and get its way.

No matter how much you might want a no deal Brexit, there is no majority support for it either in the parliament or the people.


with regards to BrownPantsRacings point above, I agree asking the people the same question in a second referendum would be pointless, but if you asked the people to confirm a final deal (no deal, no customs union, customs union, whatever) or remain, then you'd probably get a decent majority to remain as many people would prefer to remain than to have a deal that they don't support! Alternatively, a general election can change the parliament such that a stronger government could get a deal through parliament.

There was an interesting point put to Vince Cable the other day asking him the question if a second referendum voted 49% leave and 51% remain and they cancelled brexit, should we then have a 3rd referendum. After pointing out that we already had 2 referendums on the subject, he stated that if brexit was cancelled, then it would be up to the leave side to make their case and push for another referendum (something that the leave side were actually saying they would do if they'd have lost in 2016). The simple fact is, that is democracy - circumstances change and you can change your mind! So yeah, go ahead, have a second, third, fourth referendum, however many it takes for the country to come to a significant majority decision!

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

But this is my point, parliament are a slice of this country and a representation of all areas and if you ask the country the same questions that parliament have failed time and time again to come to a majority agreement on, then can you not see the same thing happening in a public vote? No majority decision or clear way forward? Do you think the public as a whole are informed enough to make the correct decision? I'm not sure.

BMWhere?

I agree, its a much too complicated decision for the public, it should never have been asked!

The problem is the PM has a minority government which she has failed to appreciate. She should never have drawn such hard lines to satisfy the ERG where there was clearly no support for it in parliament. She has blindly continued to pursue a policy which she has no chance of getting through parliament and has failed over and over again. As a minority government she should have sought cross party consent from the beginning, instead she's backed herself into a hole where the conservatives are only interesting in their own careers and Labour see the opportunity to get a general election and replace her. The conservatives are now so split on the issue, it doesn't matter who the leader is, they can't get a majority in their own party, never mind in parliament. Labour are also pretty split on the issue, but less so than the conservatives, such that even a minority Labour government could probably attract enough cross party votes to get a softer brexit through parliament. The only brexit that any parliament will deliver is a soft brexit, that is the simple fact of the split. If they want to get out of this mess, then they have to accept the only option is to move in that direction, but at the moment that is just not possible. The conservatives need to replace May, then they should go to the public for a general election based on the new policies. The EU have stated they would only re-open negotiations if there is a change of position (red lines) from the UK, in this case, I think they would happily extend article 50 and renegotiate the terms. Really, the biggest ****up from the UK side was to invoke article 50 without any sort of a plan that parliament could agree on.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

^^^^^ 100% agree with everything you've said.

trails

iTrader: (41)

This makes grim reading...

I think the past couple of years has taught us it's very difficult to predict what happens next...

dpb

You need to be demented to vote brexit party

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

...and Labour....and Conservative....


Spoilt votes is the way...it’s counted and clearly shows nobody is up to the job.

dpb

Lib dems , your sensible choice

BMWhere?

In the EU election, a spoilt vote is only counted in terms of the turnout, not in terms of the proportional vote for those elected which then benefits the winning party the most, the same is true for not voting. Given the Brexit party is set to win, not voting or spoiling your vote will give the Brexit party a bigger proportion of the vote and therefore more seats than if you voted for another party.

If you want to vote against the Brexit party, then you at least need to vote for someone. If you don't want to vote labour of conservatives, then go for lib dem, green, change UK, any other party in your area or an independent candidate, just vote for someone so that you reduce the Brexit party share of the vote!

trails

iTrader: (41)

There are different degrees of dementia though.

trails

iTrader: (41)

Greens ftw...but prob yellow as at a realistic strategic option.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Not really, pretty certain Cable has dementia as well

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

After what Lib Dem did last time they were given a ounce of power who would trust them ever again? Greens? Well I’m a petrolhead and their manifesto puts my career as well as my family businesses in potential jeopardy.

Currently it’s either spoilt vote or no vote.

dpb

well i cant see the evidence

BMWhere?

I really don't get the whole backlash on the lib dems thing. They broke a single election promise as the smaller side of a coalition government, which was probably actually the right thing to do at the time. Other than that, they actually did a very good job particularly given most commentators didn't give the coalition any chance of lading 6 months let alone a full parliamentary term!

You could still vote for an independent candidate or change UK. it's better than not voting and boosting Farage's percentage!

trails

iTrader: (41)

These are MEPs not MPs.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Tomato tomato. Regardless of their position they are representives for parties that do not share my views, trust or interests.

Anyway we all know this is more of a ‘poll’ of the public’s view of the mainstream parties moreso than the individuals MEPs that actually win a seat in brussels.

(Despite a probable minority turnout - google silent majority statistics for some interesting stats over the past few decades).

trails

iTrader: (41)

No one single party represents my views and I trust none of them; this is a least worse choice.

I'm hoping the current widespread dissatisfaction will entice more people to vote. Naive I know.

I agree it will be interesting to see the results and what share of the vote the various factions end up with.

BMWhere?

No, its an election to the European parliament. The people we elect to the parliament are our way to influence the laws and rules which the EU - you know those rules that we complain that the EU force on us against our will!

Nigel Farage and his Brexit/UKIP party cronies don't turn up to the parliament, don't vote in the parliament, or vote against the UKs best interests specifically to create and exaggerate this feeling of resentment to the EU. When 1/3 of our MEPs are not working in our best interest, then our influence on EU legislation is significantly diluted.

This isn't a joke pole or an opportunity to stick one to the establishment, its a serious election that will affect the laws in this country as long as we remain in the EU, which at the current level of progress may be quite some time! Don't waste your vote and let Farage and his lot continue to work against the UKs best interests in Europe!

dpb

Customer mine just went back Dublin to collect his dads yacht , bring it back to Brighton

Said he personlly counted 100 T cranes on Dublin skyline - expansion inline with before the crash


breixt benefits someone i guess !

dpb

I stroke a roll-up outside
Tryin' to put a memory to the face that has just said "hi"
Clouds are low, like the general mood
Tempers cookin' up from the inside
We are the microwaved food
And I'm not in the mood
The Labour Party is a three-quid tube of vending machine smarties
At the airport, where check-in could be check-out
What the **** is happ'nin'?
Bring back the neolibs, I'm sorry
I didn't ****in' mean to pray for anarchy
They're all gaggin' for a bit o' fame
So of course they're ****in' off
You don't become a toff by going against the toff
Where's the anti-toff?
We ain't got none
Have you recognised the needle in your own arm, ****?
I have, but so what?
You can't beam me up, I'm not Captain Spock
You can't sell me stuff on the rotten rock
I've got a store-card, *******
I'm this months Top Shop

BMWhere?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

You are patronising the wrong person, I know what it’s “supposed”to be. Unfortunately the reality is many of public will treat this exactly as I said. You can say how it’s supposed to be but it will never change that. Historically nobody gave a stuff...just look at the appauling turn out figures over the past decades.

trails

iTrader: (41)

Seems like a statement of fact rather than an attempt to patronise....maybe if the public took these elections a little more seriously they would understand more about the EU and feel like they have more influence?

trails

iTrader: (41)

really enjoyed that

BMWhere?

Absolutely! I wouldn't purposely patronise anyone, even if I may sometimes come across that way! For too long, the people in the UK have not taken the EU elections seriously which has enabled the likes of UKIP/Brexit party to gain a significant share of the vote!

After all, the whole reason the conservatives wanted the referendum was because they feared loosing ground to UKIP. The reality is, UKIP have never been than popular, getting just 30% of the vote with <30% turnout means they have less than 10% of the overall vote. Thats why in a general election, they've never won a single seat! A strong turnout for this election could mean that Farages party gets less seats than last time, so get out and vote against him! The latest poll shows him gaining just 2 seats from last time, lets hope a bigger turnout means he loses seats!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Maybe the manner in which it’s phrased is basically teaching me how to suck eggs. That’s how I read it anyway.

We know it’s a MEP election. But I can’t stop others or indeed some of the media/ press treating it as a political popularity contest.

Although the political junk leaflets i’ve recieved through the letterbox seems like they are treating it like a general election

I predict turnout will be just a few % above the usual 35%. Call it 37%, pathetic really.

trails

iTrader: (41)

well this is the acid test; if people still cant be bothered to vote after all the cr@p over the last couple of years we may as well give up.

I'm eternally optimistic and expecting circa 50% turn out.

BMWhere?

Not my intention! Sorry!

BMWhere?

Will be interesting to see! I think the turnout will be higher than usual, but I'd also say somewhere around the 50%.

Farage supporters will of course be out in force as usual, so its down to the silent majority to get out and have their say against him!