Mr Fuji

Oh come on, that's just project fear

Or as it should be known, 'Project Bleedin Obvious, Wrexitards'..........

dpb

Choas averted ! Would have required green card for insurance Saturday if youre coming off ferry

- had no idea

dpb

Irrelevant of course

compared to the irreprable imminent damage were headed for by staying within a corrupt and failing institution , right

Felix.

Still paying the EU about £250 million per week though
Still have open borders for anyone in and around the EU
Still have escalating problems of Romanians not getting along with Czechs & Slovakians etc and fighting with knives
Still have a government with '..no magic money tree..' for public sector & public services

But so long as businesses still make their millions, we should be all alright

dpb

Theyve certainly made a few bob recently - on the threat of no deal !

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Just had to purchase an IDL a couple of weeks ago on the strength of brexit as driving abroad next month thats been blown out of the water now

Mr Fuji

Considering that our payments to the EU at just under 1% of the annual budget, and that under investment in public services is a uniquely British Government failure, I'm not really sure why you think that it would be solved leaving the EU?

Knife crime is a problem not unique to Czechs, but again, the cuts to policing under this administration will not suddenly re-appear if we leave the EU. OK, you may get less crime from EU nationals, but please provide some good stats to show the massive proportion of knife crimes by EU national as opposed to our own, dear, indiginous scumbags.

Your last comment is class, all these companies making billions, and therefore paying their taxes, paying their employees, is what drives our economy. And yes, we do have large internationals not paying their fair share of tax, but that is a failure of our government, and if we crash out of the EU, how exactly do you think we are going to attract companies? More favourable tax rules for them!

Still, we will have control.....................

dpb

It's just the usual Desperate sales pitch from him I reckon

mrtheedge2u2

Jesus Christ, I hope the average police officer has a better understanding of reality than you, you f-ing moron.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

There only extending as they want an easter break

dpb

Easter happens every year

Felix.

Its still £250 million per week! And Switzerland has one of the best public sectors in the OECD world. Regardless of what percentage it, this is May's magic money tree which may help nurses not need to feed themselves via food banks and more money for youth services.

I see knife crimes most weeks now. The Czechs don't like the Slovakians and both don't like the Romanians who also don't have any time for the Croatians and then anyone from Poland seems to be fair game for anyone from Europe. And now more Albanians are coming across which will upset the apple cart further. There isn't the housing made available for them, so the local authorities tend to move them into inner city street housing or converted derelict pubs, clubs etc. You now end up with turf wars where gangs from each sector will fight usually with knives. Most wont get reported as they will 'sort things out amongst themselves' The only time you will hear about it will be if our "...dear, indigenous scumbags..." get caught in the cross fire. This will just continue and communities will just have to put up with blood covered streets.

Anyone who is suspected of any of the above crimes just leaves the country back to their country of birth. They your into 'European Arrest Warrant' territory which helps them hide away forever.

Companies paying tax - such as Cafe Nero, Vodaphone, GAP, Topshop, etc etc.
How about companies and industries such as our fishermen who all voted to leave due to the way the EU has treat them?

And if the only way for business to survive is being in the EU - how does Switzerland do it?

Felix.

You descend into childish abuse, normally the case when you cant put an argument forward of your own


I will counter you reply with '...my daddy is bigger than your daddy!'

dpb

Switzerland is in the single market - and has more immigration then uk


Still once we're free of it all we can spend the *Surplus* on ourselves

Mr Fuji

£250millions sounds like a lot, to you and me it is, but in the great scheme of things, it isn't. Of course, £250million not being paid out could go to other stuff, I'm not denying that, but the impact would be negligible, and then factor in the shrinkage of the economy, all those companies moving out, larger number of unemployed (or as some said earlier Deliveroo drivers) claiming benefits, then hat has been wiped out and we are worse off anyway. That is not project fear, that is very real, as has been pointed out, the move has already started, some of it is irreversable.

I never said companies can't survive outside of the EU, but Switzerland has not been in for 40 years, it's not comparing apples with apples. A more accurate analogy would be how would Switzerland survive if half of the countries they trade with suddenly slapped huge tariffs on goods an services they provide?

dpb

Lets just hope for the sake of our fisherman a hard brexit, if thats what outers really desire, immediatley imbues a more sophisticated palate

BMWhere?

Well, firstly, the net contribution is around £180 million per week. Still sounds like a lot of money to us poor people though, but when viewed on the scale of the NHS budget alone, its really quite insignificant and is also dwarfed by the benefits EU membership brings to UK businesses and the subsequent taxes which business feeds back to the exchequer.

As for Switzerland, they really have a fantastic public sector, but they also pay for it. The cost of living is extremely high. The same goes for Sweden and Norway, great public services and high cost of living. Germany also has very good public services, maybe not as good as Switzerland or Scandinavia, but the cost of living isn't quite as high, although taxes are still pretty high. Also don't forget that Switzeland and Norway both benefit from EFTA membership and Germany and Sweden are full EU members.

Clearly, EU or EFTA membership doesn't restrict you from having good public services and being outside the EU or EFTA also doesn't mean you will have better public services. The fact of the matter is, you can't expect to have great public services with the low tax regime of the UK You have to make a choice, higher taxes and good public services or lower taxes and basic services, being a member of the EU makes no difference.

Perhaps you'd like to explain your circumstances that you see migrant gang warfare on a weekly basis. I'm quite sure the majority of the UK population are completely oblivious to such problems. That is not to say they don't happen and it isn't a problem, just the majority of people are not exposed to the problem. As for Albanians, they are not an EU country and there will be more coming now to fill the holes left by the drop in EU migrants. The figures have shown that migration has remained stable since the Brexit vote despite a significant drop in EU migrants. The government has the controls to limit non EU migrations, but rather than being reduced, it's increasing.

As I've often stated, migration is primarily driven by economic demand, as long as the economic demand is there, then the migrants will keep coming. The number of EU migrants has never been enough to fill the economic demand, so there has always been more non EU migrants than EU migrants. Taking back control of immigration has always been a red-herring, because the government doesn't control migration, the economy does and the government simply meet the economic demands because they prioritise economic growth over reducing immigration, even if they are telling you that they want to get tough on immigration!

The other point, is EU migrants can move quite easily, so when the economic situation worsens, or the economic situation in their home or other EU countries improve, they will often move again. EU migration essentially creates a mobile workforce. Non EU migrants have to jump through bigger hoops to make the move, so moving is not so easy and they tend to make the move permanently and are less mobile than the EU migrant workforce.

The ideal situation for the UK is for migrants that come to work when they are young, pay their taxes and leave before they get old or they are out of work. These are the migrants that contribute the most and make the least demands on the health and welfare systems. Between EU and non EU migrants, the EU migrants are the ones which come closest to the ideal.

Even if we do leave the EU and stop freedom of movement, we would be best served prioritising EU migrants in the future rather than non-EU migrants. Don't forget, there are problems between certain nationality groups from the whole world, its not a problem that is exclusive to eastern EU countries.

Switzerland is in EFTA, pays a significant contribution to the EU budget without having a seat at the table. Is a Schengen member and has open borders and freedom of movement within the EU. It is a very beautiful country that attracts a massive amount of tourists and has a very high living costs which in turn inflates wages and therefore tax revenues to pay for their excellent public services. The Swiss tax system is designed to exploit the tourists by lowering direct taxation (income tax) and increases indirect taxation (VAT etc.), so tourists in Switzerland also contribute significantly to the tax revenues. Switzerland is also nudging ever closer to EU membership. Their system of governance depends on referendums, so public opinion tends to drive the government rather than the government driving public opinion, so membership up to now has been difficult, but the Swiss public are ever warming to EU membership and every few years they accept further referendums which integrate them further with the EU.

Just for full disclosure, I live about 20km from the Swiss border and have many colleagues that live in Switzerland. There are daily traffic jams at the Swiss border, not because of border controls, because there aren't any. The jams are caused by the Swiss doing their shopping in Germany because its so much cheaper. Because the old border crossings are relatively few in number, it restricts the traffic flow so the shear number of cars can't pass through. Travel outside of shopping hours though and you pass straight through!

As for the poor fishermen. They forget to tell you how much they receive in subsidies from the EU common fisheries policy. When they are complaining about the foreign fishing boats in British waters, they forget to tell you how much they fish in other EU countries waters - remember the clam-gate last year with British fishermen taking clams out of season in French waters? They also forget to tell you how much they have been overfishing for decades and have decimated the fish stocks so much that the stocks are no longer sustainable.

The reality of the fishing industry is their EU problems are not about foreign boats fishing in UK waters as that problem equalises itself with UK rights to fish in foreign waters. The problem they have is with the fish quotas which are there to protect the fish stocks and make the industry sustainable. If you ask me, they should be even further restricted because they are still over fishing and destroying the marine environment! Because of the fishing quotas the EU pays subsidies to the fishermen which are designed to compensate for the restrictions of the quotas. When (if) we leave the EU, we could restrict foreign boats fishing in UK waters but will also lose access to foreign waters. The quotas can't realistically be increased and their will be no more subsidies coming from the EU. The UK government may chose to maintain subsidies, but my guess is the fishing industry will not be their priority when it comes to post Brexit financing! The NHS, affordable housing, education, policing will all be ahead of the queue when it comes to redistributing the EU contribution windfall!

coupe_20vt

iTrader: (2)

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

You argue with every ****ing point

Yes it happens yearly but the ****storm that is brexit doesnt youd think they would forgo it and sort the mess out .

Sadly their not in the real world their creaming it .so why give a toss they know were thier bread is buttered and its from the tip of the eu's *****

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Toys, pram, thrown out of. Anything else you'd like to share, before mummy comes and picks you up after play-group?

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

If most of the eu countries were businesses theyd of gone bump long ago,

As for these massive companies not paying tax, **** um off they dont pay their way so why keep them here?

mrtheedge2u2

It was not said in childishness at all, unfortunately. It was typed with my jaw open in sheer f-ing horror at what I had just read.

Just using CH as an example.... they have the following agreements in place with the EU (not an exhaustive list):

1. Free movement of people
2. Air traffic
3. Road traffic
4. Agriculture
5. Technical trade barriers
6. Public procurement
7. Science

Whilst they do not contribute directly to the EU as Britain does, they do contribute to projects etc. They also do well as they have a strong tertiary and service industry.

Mr Fuji

Why do you think they are creaming it? The UK government may well be creaming it, but not off the EU. MEPs, possibly, but not ours. They are perfectly capable of being dishonest domestically, as the expenses scandal showed.

This is just another myth, that somehow MPs don't want to leave as it somehow benefits them personally, but it really doesn't. Leavers cannot comprehend that these MPs can genuinely see that leaving the EU (and certainly leaving with on deal) is not good for the UK, and it is their job to protect the EU. You also have MPs how, despite what they may personally believe, still try to deliver Brexit as it's what their constituents wanted. I can see that, but at the end of the day, if your constituents voted to turn their homes in to toxic wasteland because someone had convinced them it was a good thing to do, should you still support it?

It's no wonder Parliament cannot sort it, despite leave 'winning', the country is split, why should they be any different? When we have a general election, it's not as if the majority of voters get what they want, it's exactly the opposite, actually. Tories or Labour have never achieved 50% of votes, let alone a majority. Yet for some reason, everyone is frothing at the mouth unless they deliver the 'will of the people'. Well, the will of the people may not be the same as it was 3 years ago!

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Yeah - weres the middle finger emoji when you need it .

He picks on the most trivial of stuff, obs doesnt know a joke when he reads it ffs

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

How do we know its a bad thing leaving?

The eu is a sinking ship, its like when you buy a round of drinks and theres that mate who never pays, not everyone is paying equal

I would hazard a guess if the uk did leave then the eu would collapse .thats just my opinion before i get shot down

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Not that we will leave. We wont be allowed too. Even if we had a 80:20 split

dpb

There theyre thier

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Im ttrying to type on my phone .this forum seems god awful for using with my android

^ but you proved a point

Mr Fuji

Well, for starters, all the companies that will leave if we are not in. That's not conjecture, that is happening. The NHS is creaking due to lack of staff, they are a huge employer of EU immigrants. Again, that is reality. Even if the magical £350million figure was true, it wouldn't provide people. Depending on what deal we get, we could end up paying more for imports, and our exports being less attractive. Areas which get EU funding will no longer get it. OK, you could say that with the money we save, they could, but even if we discount the likely contraction of the economy due to leaving and imagine some utopia where it doesn't, then what makes you think that they will give it to those projects that the EU does now? They may, they may instead choose to spend it other things. Some areas have been regenerated due to EU money, they had been left to rot by successive UK administrations.

It's ok to say it's just your opinion, but you must have some evidence that makes you think it is, it's not like you flipped a coin.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

The nhs is in a mess because of miss management not lack of staff.

When the nhs will pay agency staff nesrly 3 times the wage of a nurse there is no incentive for nurses.

They would be better increasing tbe wage of a nurse, they would have more peopl apply, less useless agency staff.

The it sides just as bad, an it manager openly admitted to me they over spent on a 3m budget by spending 7m

Its this poor management thats hurting the nhs. So much waste.

Nurses do such a hard job and there pushed so much .the nhs carries so much deadwood its untrue .