Judgement Day for Tony Blair
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So this is how the conversation went;
Goldsmith: Sorry mate, can't legally go to War without a second UN resolution.
Blair: The f***ers won't give us a Second resolution, I've already promised Dubya we're going in with them.
Goldsmith: Well if Saddam is already contravening Resolution 1441 you might be able to go to War.
Blair: Really, its that easy? Well in that case I firmly believe atleast some small part of Resolution 1441 has been ignored in some way.
Goldsmith: oh ok. Go for it, press the Fire button.
Goldsmith: Sorry mate, can't legally go to War without a second UN resolution.
Blair: The f***ers won't give us a Second resolution, I've already promised Dubya we're going in with them.
Goldsmith: Well if Saddam is already contravening Resolution 1441 you might be able to go to War.
Blair: Really, its that easy? Well in that case I firmly believe atleast some small part of Resolution 1441 has been ignored in some way.
Goldsmith: oh ok. Go for it, press the Fire button.
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From: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
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From: K
if you actually listen to him
again I heard him on Radio 4 this morning
he actually does not accept anything of Chilcot
he is in total denial
he will have had a team going over the report for weeks/months - so he knows it back to front, it gives him an initial advantage
again I heard him on Radio 4 this morning
he actually does not accept anything of Chilcot
he is in total denial
he will have had a team going over the report for weeks/months - so he knows it back to front, it gives him an initial advantage
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It was the end of March 1999, when hundreds of thousands of Kosovan Albanians were being forced from their homes and herded towards the borders. Serbian troops were wiping out entire villages, with the aim of crushing an armed separatist movement, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), in the Albanian-majority province.
The Sahitis fled in a hurry under gunfire, taking whatever they could throw on to the tractor. They pulled their car behind them as a fallback. Shukrije held on to her five-year-old daughter while her husband drove. Together, they were a speck in the human tide flowing south.
"We were on the road all day and all night – it rained and rained," she says. "As we went by, we saw along the way houses burning and dead bodies in the road. When we saw all that, we thought we would never survive."
It happened to be a particularly busy day at the camp. Most of the Italian brass were out to meet a VIP visitor. Tony Blair was visiting the Nato forces and the refugee camps, where he was mobbed as a saviour. The Kosovan Albanian refugees who spent their nights huddled around radios knew the British prime minister was pushing harder than any other western leader for decisive Nato intervention to drive back Serbian forces. They chanted, "Nato! Nato!" when they saw him. And when he addressed them, promising they would be returning to their homes, the cheers could be heard in the tent where Shukrije was giving birth to a healthy, 4.2kg boy.
"It seemed like a miracle," her husband says. The Italian medics looked to the new father for a name and he had no hesitation: the baby would be named in honour of the celebrated visitor, with Albanian spelling – he would be called Tonibler.
Just as Blair promised, the people of Kosovo did go home. Tonibler is growing up in peace in the family village. His father has built a new two-storey home near the site of their old house, with meticulous stonework behind the hearth. There are apple, pear and cherry trees in the garden. If you wanted to conjure up a scene to convey a vision of peace, it would be hard to do better.
As the tale of the long trek into Albania is recounted, Tonibler's grandfather, Brahim, sits in a chair in the corner, his eyes watering under his black beret. When he speaks, his voice trembles: "If Nato hadn't intervened, none of us would be here," he cries. "People were put in basements and executed. Nato came and that's why people survived." Of course Brahim approved of the choice of his grandson's name. "How could I not agree? He showed such support to a suffering people.
When Blair visited the Kosovo capital Pristina in July 2010, Tonibler Sahiti was one of the nine boys on stage to greet him. There were two more Toniblers, two Blers and three Tonis, dressed in identical suits and ties donated for the occasion, who all got the chance to introduce themselves to the nation's hero. They were lined up on stage, waving their hands from side to side in time to We Are The World. There was a crowd of several thousand at the open-air event, some waving union jacks, amid signs proclaiming Blair a "leader, friend and hero". The man himself stood behind the boys as they sang, and behind him was a backdrop featuring a giant image of his face.
The adulation in Kosovo is all the more striking for the contrast to its object's reputation in his home country, where, following the invasion of Iraq, the Blair name is a brand so toxic the Labour party goes out of its way to avoid him. "The good deed of a person should be remembered for a long time," says Sadete Gashi, another devotee convinced she owes her life to the British politician. "The people who lived through the most chaotic and miserable chapter in our history know what Tony Blair did."
From The Guardian's website. Make your own mind up.
The Sahitis fled in a hurry under gunfire, taking whatever they could throw on to the tractor. They pulled their car behind them as a fallback. Shukrije held on to her five-year-old daughter while her husband drove. Together, they were a speck in the human tide flowing south.
"We were on the road all day and all night – it rained and rained," she says. "As we went by, we saw along the way houses burning and dead bodies in the road. When we saw all that, we thought we would never survive."
It happened to be a particularly busy day at the camp. Most of the Italian brass were out to meet a VIP visitor. Tony Blair was visiting the Nato forces and the refugee camps, where he was mobbed as a saviour. The Kosovan Albanian refugees who spent their nights huddled around radios knew the British prime minister was pushing harder than any other western leader for decisive Nato intervention to drive back Serbian forces. They chanted, "Nato! Nato!" when they saw him. And when he addressed them, promising they would be returning to their homes, the cheers could be heard in the tent where Shukrije was giving birth to a healthy, 4.2kg boy.
"It seemed like a miracle," her husband says. The Italian medics looked to the new father for a name and he had no hesitation: the baby would be named in honour of the celebrated visitor, with Albanian spelling – he would be called Tonibler.
Just as Blair promised, the people of Kosovo did go home. Tonibler is growing up in peace in the family village. His father has built a new two-storey home near the site of their old house, with meticulous stonework behind the hearth. There are apple, pear and cherry trees in the garden. If you wanted to conjure up a scene to convey a vision of peace, it would be hard to do better.
As the tale of the long trek into Albania is recounted, Tonibler's grandfather, Brahim, sits in a chair in the corner, his eyes watering under his black beret. When he speaks, his voice trembles: "If Nato hadn't intervened, none of us would be here," he cries. "People were put in basements and executed. Nato came and that's why people survived." Of course Brahim approved of the choice of his grandson's name. "How could I not agree? He showed such support to a suffering people.
When Blair visited the Kosovo capital Pristina in July 2010, Tonibler Sahiti was one of the nine boys on stage to greet him. There were two more Toniblers, two Blers and three Tonis, dressed in identical suits and ties donated for the occasion, who all got the chance to introduce themselves to the nation's hero. They were lined up on stage, waving their hands from side to side in time to We Are The World. There was a crowd of several thousand at the open-air event, some waving union jacks, amid signs proclaiming Blair a "leader, friend and hero". The man himself stood behind the boys as they sang, and behind him was a backdrop featuring a giant image of his face.
The adulation in Kosovo is all the more striking for the contrast to its object's reputation in his home country, where, following the invasion of Iraq, the Blair name is a brand so toxic the Labour party goes out of its way to avoid him. "The good deed of a person should be remembered for a long time," says Sadete Gashi, another devotee convinced she owes her life to the British politician. "The people who lived through the most chaotic and miserable chapter in our history know what Tony Blair did."
From The Guardian's website. Make your own mind up.
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It was the end of March 1999, when hundreds of thousands of Kosovan Albanians were being forced from their homes and herded towards the borders. Serbian troops were wiping out entire villages, with the aim of crushing an armed separatist movement, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), in the Albanian-majority province.
The Sahitis fled in a hurry under gunfire, taking whatever they could throw on to the tractor. They pulled their car behind them as a fallback. Shukrije held on to her five-year-old daughter while her husband drove. Together, they were a speck in the human tide flowing south.
"We were on the road all day and all night – it rained and rained," she says. "As we went by, we saw along the way houses burning and dead bodies in the road. When we saw all that, we thought we would never survive."
It happened to be a particularly busy day at the camp. Most of the Italian brass were out to meet a VIP visitor. Tony Blair was visiting the Nato forces and the refugee camps, where he was mobbed as a saviour. The Kosovan Albanian refugees who spent their nights huddled around radios knew the British prime minister was pushing harder than any other western leader for decisive Nato intervention to drive back Serbian forces. They chanted, "Nato! Nato!" when they saw him. And when he addressed them, promising they would be returning to their homes, the cheers could be heard in the tent where Shukrije was giving birth to a healthy, 4.2kg boy.
"It seemed like a miracle," her husband says. The Italian medics looked to the new father for a name and he had no hesitation: the baby would be named in honour of the celebrated visitor, with Albanian spelling – he would be called Tonibler.
Just as Blair promised, the people of Kosovo did go home. Tonibler is growing up in peace in the family village. His father has built a new two-storey home near the site of their old house, with meticulous stonework behind the hearth. There are apple, pear and cherry trees in the garden. If you wanted to conjure up a scene to convey a vision of peace, it would be hard to do better.
As the tale of the long trek into Albania is recounted, Tonibler's grandfather, Brahim, sits in a chair in the corner, his eyes watering under his black beret. When he speaks, his voice trembles: "If Nato hadn't intervened, none of us would be here," he cries. "People were put in basements and executed. Nato came and that's why people survived." Of course Brahim approved of the choice of his grandson's name. "How could I not agree? He showed such support to a suffering people.
When Blair visited the Kosovo capital Pristina in July 2010, Tonibler Sahiti was one of the nine boys on stage to greet him. There were two more Toniblers, two Blers and three Tonis, dressed in identical suits and ties donated for the occasion, who all got the chance to introduce themselves to the nation's hero. They were lined up on stage, waving their hands from side to side in time to We Are The World. There was a crowd of several thousand at the open-air event, some waving union jacks, amid signs proclaiming Blair a "leader, friend and hero". The man himself stood behind the boys as they sang, and behind him was a backdrop featuring a giant image of his face.
The adulation in Kosovo is all the more striking for the contrast to its object's reputation in his home country, where, following the invasion of Iraq, the Blair name is a brand so toxic the Labour party goes out of its way to avoid him. "The good deed of a person should be remembered for a long time," says Sadete Gashi, another devotee convinced she owes her life to the British politician. "The people who lived through the most chaotic and miserable chapter in our history know what Tony Blair did."
From The Guardian's website. Make your own mind up.
The Sahitis fled in a hurry under gunfire, taking whatever they could throw on to the tractor. They pulled their car behind them as a fallback. Shukrije held on to her five-year-old daughter while her husband drove. Together, they were a speck in the human tide flowing south.
"We were on the road all day and all night – it rained and rained," she says. "As we went by, we saw along the way houses burning and dead bodies in the road. When we saw all that, we thought we would never survive."
It happened to be a particularly busy day at the camp. Most of the Italian brass were out to meet a VIP visitor. Tony Blair was visiting the Nato forces and the refugee camps, where he was mobbed as a saviour. The Kosovan Albanian refugees who spent their nights huddled around radios knew the British prime minister was pushing harder than any other western leader for decisive Nato intervention to drive back Serbian forces. They chanted, "Nato! Nato!" when they saw him. And when he addressed them, promising they would be returning to their homes, the cheers could be heard in the tent where Shukrije was giving birth to a healthy, 4.2kg boy.
"It seemed like a miracle," her husband says. The Italian medics looked to the new father for a name and he had no hesitation: the baby would be named in honour of the celebrated visitor, with Albanian spelling – he would be called Tonibler.
Just as Blair promised, the people of Kosovo did go home. Tonibler is growing up in peace in the family village. His father has built a new two-storey home near the site of their old house, with meticulous stonework behind the hearth. There are apple, pear and cherry trees in the garden. If you wanted to conjure up a scene to convey a vision of peace, it would be hard to do better.
As the tale of the long trek into Albania is recounted, Tonibler's grandfather, Brahim, sits in a chair in the corner, his eyes watering under his black beret. When he speaks, his voice trembles: "If Nato hadn't intervened, none of us would be here," he cries. "People were put in basements and executed. Nato came and that's why people survived." Of course Brahim approved of the choice of his grandson's name. "How could I not agree? He showed such support to a suffering people.
When Blair visited the Kosovo capital Pristina in July 2010, Tonibler Sahiti was one of the nine boys on stage to greet him. There were two more Toniblers, two Blers and three Tonis, dressed in identical suits and ties donated for the occasion, who all got the chance to introduce themselves to the nation's hero. They were lined up on stage, waving their hands from side to side in time to We Are The World. There was a crowd of several thousand at the open-air event, some waving union jacks, amid signs proclaiming Blair a "leader, friend and hero". The man himself stood behind the boys as they sang, and behind him was a backdrop featuring a giant image of his face.
The adulation in Kosovo is all the more striking for the contrast to its object's reputation in his home country, where, following the invasion of Iraq, the Blair name is a brand so toxic the Labour party goes out of its way to avoid him. "The good deed of a person should be remembered for a long time," says Sadete Gashi, another devotee convinced she owes her life to the British politician. "The people who lived through the most chaotic and miserable chapter in our history know what Tony Blair did."
From The Guardian's website. Make your own mind up.
This is often overlooked by Blair haters. Also forgotten is his rescue of Sierra Leone and his tireless work for Northern Ireland peace.
Iraq clouds everything now - probably rightly so too.
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Playing Devil's advocate here, I'd wonder how many who say that Iraq was better off under Saddam would put him back in power?
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The difference is, whilst both scenarios had clear objectives, the Blair government wasn't prepared to look deep enough into what the US objective in Iraq actually was, ie; get in there, steal the oil, f*ck off, and leave the Brits to clean up the mess 
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From: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
He did do good things, to begin with...just like Thatcher did good things, to begin with. Megalomania after too many consecutive re-elections led to the same behavior from both PMs...sadly the consequences of Blair's behavior are global and continue to be felt by billions of people.
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The US objective was to put an army in the middle east.
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Except not one part of your statement is born out by the facts
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From: K
So much positive, from Northern Ireland to a complete rebuilding of The U.K's failing schools infrastructure
Undone, by something that was such foreseeable folly
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It is to my shame that I mocked Cook at the time; thank God I can point to the folly of youth in mitigation.
Robin Cook's Resignation Speech (in full) - YouTube
Robin Cook's Resignation Speech (in full) - YouTube
ROBIN COOK:
2003 QUITS Blair gov't - receives standing ovation
2005 FATAL heart attack on Ministry of Defence land.
Curiosity got the better of me, and according to what I could dig up, that quote was originally (before various Internet loonies re-appropriated it for RC and spread it about on umpteen conspiracy sites) attributed to someone completely different, namely a French spook by the name of Pierre-Henri Bunel, supposedly speaking in December of 2001.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...=PA79&lpg=PA79
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...=PA79&lpg=PA79
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From: The hell where youth and laughter go
Indeed, New schools built by over grasping and allowing abuse of the PFI scheme at the cost to us all. It's hard to pick and choose a report showing its toxicity as there are so many, but this'll do: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...overning-class
And
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-10177032.html
And obviously Nothern Ireland's peace had nothing to do with the crossfire agreed with peace negotiations on going well before the involvement of Blair and his government (1994). You are thanking the wrong people for the peace process.
Last edited by ALi-B; Jul 8, 2016 at 07:46 AM.
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From: K
and peace negotiations had been going on for years - what's your point
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Jul 8, 2016 at 08:16 AM.
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http://www.topinfopost.com/2015/01/0...d-about-hitler
Doesn't excuse hiss mass murder of millions though - does it?
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Anyway - looks like there's going to be a civil action
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...Hp5?li=BBoPWjQ
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...Hp5?li=BBoPWjQ
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Even Hitler wasn't a complete c*nt. He did some great things for the people (and animals) of Germany.
http://www.topinfopost.com/2015/01/0...d-about-hitler
Doesn't excuse hiss mass murder of millions though - does it?
http://www.topinfopost.com/2015/01/0...d-about-hitler
Doesn't excuse hiss mass murder of millions though - does it?
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From: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
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A miguided military adventure based on flawed Intel.
Obviously the big difference is that this needs to viewed in the context of WW1 though.
From a military perspective Gallipoli was far far bigger ****-up.
You could add The Somme too, 19000 British soldiers died in one day
Obviously the big difference is that this needs to viewed in the context of WW1 though.
From a military perspective Gallipoli was far far bigger ****-up.
You could add The Somme too, 19000 British soldiers died in one day
Last edited by Martin2005; Jul 8, 2016 at 11:21 AM.
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From: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Thanks Martin; I knew about the military angle, I just wondered if there were the same degree of global fallout as Iraq...which I find highly unlikely given the technology of the time.
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I just hope we learn the lessons from Iraq, at the same time we need to allow our elected leaders to lead. Because Iraq was such an unmitigated disaster, doesn't mean that we cannot/should not intervene in future. The danger is we'll just sit on our hands, fearful of law suits and bad PR which could have equally grave consequences.
I watched Andrew Neil's programme last night, he asked a very interesting question of one of the contributors...
'We intervened and occupied Iraq, the result a bloody mess. We intervened in Libya and didn't occupy, the result, a bloody mess. We didn't intervene or occupy in Syria, the result, a bloody mess'.
'What lessons should we be learning, what are the implications for future UK foreign policy?'
It's a really tough one to answer
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From: K
I suspect the irony of Blair's position regarding the world being safer - would be lost on the 1000's of relatives of the 292 obliterated on Sundays suicide bomb in Baghdad
or the 35 blown up today just outside Baghdad
or the ?? blown up tomorrow
I was watching an interview with Robert Harris - the novelist who knew Blair through that period
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36741856
he too thinks he is doolally
or the 35 blown up today just outside Baghdad
or the ?? blown up tomorrow
I was watching an interview with Robert Harris - the novelist who knew Blair through that period
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36741856
he too thinks he is doolally