madscoob

iTrader: (3)

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
allnthis reminds me of a janet jackson song
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY

dpb

So , we go it alone in protest ?

Geezer

Are you advocating that the EU approached all these companies and said "you move out of Britain, we'll pay" or, more likely they wanted to to move because the UK is expensive to be in and took advantage of EU funding to help them?

I imagine that like lots of companies (i.e. Dyson, who strangely backs Leave) move stuff out of the UK for that reason. How many call centres are in India? How many of the big companies have India doing their IT? IBM are setting up in Eastern Europe, it's much cheaper for them. This is whilst we are in the EU. What do you think will happen if we leave?

andy97

iTrader: (1)

I am going to have to watch BBC debate tonight, by all accounts Boris received a standing ovation with a great line

dpb

looked tedious as hell from the short bits saw on the news , same old same old

obviously missed Boris bit

An0n0m0us

Having just seen some clips of that the more I see the Remain campaigners the more I want to leave!

I will watch it too via iplayer to see the entire shouting match.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

WELL FOR STARTERS there would be no grants secondly it won't matter because in 5-10 years time when the lower rent aggreements with the likes of slovakia run out the companies will just move on seeking cheeper labour elsewhere,
it's called commercial greed and sooner or later they will run out of cheeper labour as developing countries advance,and want more wages, like china is at the moment, they want our wages and lifestyles, i know of one electric motor company from china who oursource production of the armature to india allready because it's cheeper labour, it will all fall on it's **** sooner or later

dpb

I see so the developing world should slow down , since were the only ones deserving of decent standard living

ScoobyWon't

I think the SNP should push for a leave vote. Why?

We keep hearing that if the UK votes to leave, then Scotland will hold another independence referendum. So vote leave, get your referendum and get your independence.

hodgy0_2

I think you are confusing the EU with the problems associated with globalisation

Leaving the EU will likely increase the problems of the UK being buffeted by the harsh winds of globalisation

Geezer

Companies will move to the UK as we will be a third world country

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

correct when they run out of other third world countries to rip the p1ss out of,might take a few years though

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

no no quite the oposite the quicker they catch up the better, then big buisness will have nowhere left to turn for cheep labour

warrenm2

So touching that I was missed.

Interesting few days
-Hesaltine saying we are still going to be joining the Euro
-PM breaking purdah rules
-BBC/MSM completely ignoring the riots in Calais, BBC blaming it on power problems aka LYING

The vote Leave will be won by Labour voters. Their party has deserted them and they are about to make them pay

This is how Labour used to be...

BMWhere?

Just to clarify the Austria vote you're talking about and making out that a far right nearly gained full power in Austria.
This was a vote for the Presidential elections which is pretty much just a ceremonial position with no power, much akin to voting for the Queen!
There was a terrible turn-out for the original election, as a result there was no clear winner. Under Austrian rules, they take the highest two candidates to a second round.
The highest two candidates in the first round were a young charismatic right wing populist from the Fredom Party and a very old chainsmoking green party suported extreme leftist. As is often the case, extremist voters always turn out and due to the extremely low turn out in the first round, the extremists managed to win. In the second round the public were left with two candidates that nobody wanted. The turn out for the second round was better but still relatively low.
Despite what this presedential election may seem to hint at, the Austrians are not having a massive shift to the right. The majority of Austrians, the moderates, are really quite horrified by what they allowed to happen in the presedential election by not voting and they have almost certainly learnt their lesson.

For reference, I live on the Austrian border (which by the way, was never closed during the migrant crisis, despite reports in the UK press), I work with several Austrians and I just spent the weekend in Le Mans with 3 Austrian friends. I wake up every morning listening to FM4, an Austrian radio station. I am very informed on this election!

The Afd actually gained second place in one state and 3rd place in two other states. They are by no means second largest in many reagions! Again, there was a low turn out in the elections held in March. The Afd didn't really gain in number of votes, but rather the other parties lost votes which lead to the Afd gaining a greater percentage than would have happend if there had been average turn-out. Again, as in Austria, there was a general level of shock that the Afd gained in percentage in the state elections and it doesn't generally reflect the opinion of the majority of voters who failed to turn-out. At Afd rallies, there are 10 or more times the number of people turn out for counter demonstrations, they really aren't a popular party in Germany. Whats also missing here is that the Greens actually gained even more than Afd in these elections.
Its also important to understand that the Afd have only made gains in the state elections, they have no representation in the national government. Similar in essense to UKIPs popularity in local elections but not in the UK governments.

As for other countries, I can't really comment as I know nothing about them other than what gets printed in the UK, German, Austrian or Swiss (I also live close to the Swiss border) press. I do agree there seems to quite a scary rise of the far right across europe, but I don't beleive that the people are becoming more right wing, but rather they are becomming more dissatisfied with the mainstreem polititcians and just not voting, which leads to a more extremist parties gaining more power.

Its all very well discussing the rise of extremist parties across Europe, but its very important to put it into context.

Uncle Creepy

Couldn't agree more. I'm by no means a fan of all the advocates of leaving, but after watching most of the debates that have been televised these past few weeks, in my opinion the leave campaigners have been far more convincing and delivered far more polished performances. I can't think of a single remain campaigner that has come across as sincere or credible. The worst by far was Richard Reed. So arrogant and obnoxious. A really nasty piece of work.

David Lock

Alan Johnson, David Milliband, that new Tory Scottish leader, the new London mayor for starters.......


dl

warrenm2

:rolleye s:

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I found a very good example of a grant the EU actually demanded back from a company, after they found out it was specifically going to be used to relocate a factory from the UK to another member state. If that's anything to go by, the list in madscoob's recent post has to be taken with a large grain of salt at the very least, if not dismissed entirely as out and out spin or fabrication.

hodgy0_2

Well tbf it is not madscoop "gishgallop" list, it is one that gets endlessly posted on blogs around the world

Just put a line in Google, the same list has been posted on everything from Facebook to the Dorset Gazett

They get altered and modified slightly,

My general sense is that any arguement from - creationism, 911 twooferism to climate change denial that relies on spreading these list always falls short when a rational analysis is applied and point by point rebutted

But that's the point it is far easier to spread these myths than it is to debunk them - they cleverly contain a kernel of truth like

"Darwin admitted evolution could not explain the eye"
Or "CO2 is a trace gas"

But the reality they are all bunk and simply dissolve when tackled one on one but that takes time - meanwhile the list has been cut and pasted a thousand times

"Never mind the quality, just look at the quantity"

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Excellent find! I was trying to find some supporting evidence earlier in the thread for Peugeot getting a grant to move a factory out of Wales, but I couldn't find anything reported in the news to confirm (or indeed reject) the statement, so my gut feeling is that it's bunk, and more likely to do with the slovakian government giving peugeot a tax break to move (i.e. actually not the EU at all, just the usual shenanigans of one country trying to get one over on another one).

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

The problem with posts like yours, and indeed the arguments you support is that they're of the "TL;DR" category. Can you condense it into a 8 word soundbite so that we can sell it to people who cannot be bothered to read?

(only slightly tongue in cheek )

dpb

I don't really agree we will become a glutinous mash of states within eu federation , iv only been 4/5 countries have admit but they all felt suitably different to the uk , above beyond language topography etc

Got admit i didn't see it before the eu was in place , it must been WILD like Africa ( i been 4 countries there) eh ?? lol

Maybe someone old enough can tell us

hodgy0_2

Like JT pointed, they simply don't want to get into "details"

Much easier to say "freedom" and "take back control"

And leave it at that - get the audience to fill in the blanks for you

Turbohot

Good link, Mark. I can see that it will be of no interest to the thoughtless outers.


Thing is, what will the UK remain as its independent, chest-bulging self? What exactly does it offer that makes it traditionally, culturally, socially and linguistically etc. so proudly and outstandingly British? To my understanding, as for the essential British features, the lack of tolerance for other races and cultures and the sense of superiority over such seem to have always existed in the UK. Buckingham Palace still stands high and the Royals carry on existing inside it. About the churches, not many Great Britons have cared for them at all for Adam's, anyway. Regarding the language, look at the standard of English by the English here. I don't think we can blame the EU imposed immigration or free movement for the faint entity of Great Britain. The insecurity is simply about the wealth. That's without the consideration that this wealth cannot be sustained without international collaboration and cooperation. The outers say that the UK will do better financially without having to be in the EU. Well, let's see how they get on, in the long run. That's if the 'out' wins. I have my pop corns ready.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

In many cases, the countries thery have moved to simply appraoched the EU for funding, built a new factory with it, then lured the manufacturers there with promises of hi-tech factory and cheaper labour. I know for a FACT thast that's what happened with LG, since I was told about it on a Dunkerque-Dover ferry by the Polish engineer in charge of the new factory. (He was going to visit family living in the UK).

Even he said we in the UK were stupid to pay into a system that takes jobs from our country and relocates them abroad, while hordes (his word) of low-paid workers enter our country to take the jobs our young used to do.

dpb

Free movement people evenin out wealth.

Could have got grant for factory here .I find it hard believe job situation is as bad north east as it was in mid eighties when Maggie was in power . How much of that was eu meddling ?

JTaylor

Last night that particular soundbite must've been fired-off dozens of times by the Brexiters. Sort of thing their target audience can absorb and regurgitate and feel all powerful and 'patriotic' about. The standing ovation was in response to Boris talking about an "Independence Day"; boy, didn't the gullible, myopic, little Englanders suck that up! They'll be Boris's useful idiots for the remainder of the campaign as the meme infects the minds of the credulous. I picture Boris retiring to his dressing room post debate and winking at himself in the mirror; a half-smile perched upon his lips - "mugs" he mutters.

Devildog

Jeff

Leaving the EU isn't going to change that.

If we leave, what will happen is that the jobs will still be relocated abroad due to better (funded) facilities and cheaper (and arguably harder working) labour.

Immigration may well slow down, but then there will be no jobs here anyway as what are now pan European or global businesses will have zero incentives to stay in the UK.

What the leavers fail to tell you is that net migration to the UK is way less than the total figures quoted by the leave campaign.

People need to stop looking at this from an emotional perspective and start looking at it from a factual perspective.

You listed to the opinion of one man on a boat. That's all that is - its not fact, its opinion. "Hoards of low paid workers" Really? you do realise that whoever you employ in the UK is subject to UK minimum wage legislation?

Much of the UK workforce issues stem from the fact that the UK suffers from cant be arsed syndrome. No wonder European immigrant workers get so many jobs.

Companies shut up shop and leave the UK because of cost, quality of workforce, facilities, restrictive legislation and in certain cases trade union interference. That's fact based on 26 + years of working in a corporate restructuring environment. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the UK is part of the EU.

Saw this the other day. I know which camp I'm in.

Devildog

Absolutely.

The hypocrisy of many on here in the exit camp who were the first to deride the pro Scottish independence camp for failing to deliver the detail and basing that campaign on "braveheart" emotion would make me laugh if it wasn't such a serious matter.

What the "leave" campaign is doing now is 100 times worse.