alcazar

iTrader: (2)

It's STILL £35m a DAY, for heaven's sake?

What COULD we have for that????? SEVEN new large primaries per DAY. A new hospital in the regions per DAY, the Humber bridge debt written off quickly.
New roads etc in the regions..or repairs to those we have.

New railway lines. New trains. More police officers. More services...you know, the ones we pay council tax for? And no longer get many of

Are you even aware that ALL Osborne's cuts SO FAR have only given us savings of £44 billion, yet in the SAME TIME PERIOD we paid the EC £87 billion?????

It's lunacy.

VOTE OUT!!!!

And as for Thatcher's much vaunted rebate, I'm pretty sure it no longer exists. it's just the amount the EC gives us back, much as they give EVERY country something. http://forbritain.org/140518_eu_rebate_blair.pdf

But LOOK at the graph, for heaven's sake. HOW LONG can we, Germany, France, Holland, Italy and Sweden KEEP supporting basket cases like Spain and Greece? Keep throwing money at other countries, only to see our jobs cut again and again.

And don't even start on the ex-Eastern Bloc countries. RUSSIA put them in the **** they are in, NOT EUROPE!!! Hell, they didn't want to know us for fifty years!!! Let bloody Russia dig them out of the hole they are in. They think they are some rich world power. Let them show it.

hodgy0_2

Okay, so we agree the 55 million a day is cherryicked because it does not include the rebate

You now cherrypick 35 million

But that still does not include the grants and various payments that we get back (which we would not get back if we left)

The final figure according to the article, accounting for all payments out, plus rebates and monies received is 18 million a day

I appreciate that won't change you view, but the debate would be best served if people did not cherrypick data

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

But that still does not include the grants and various payments that we get back (which we would not get back if we left) yes true but we wouldn't of given it to them to then get it back again WOULD WE the only people who gain from all this is the banks charging to move money around

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, but that graph/bar chart seems to show the NETT IN-OUT for each country. The bit below seems to be what makes up what we get back.

According to that it's STILL £35M per day and we are only beaten on how much we give by Germany. Even France give less.

It has to stop. we are just chucking money at the ex-eastern bloc countries and the economic cheating basket cases. The eastern bloc couintries use OUR money to build new factories that effectively strip jobs from the UK, the basket cases continue NOT to pay taxes, and the whole got goes round and round with US and GERMANY paying for it.

Seriously: if I asked you to pay a large amount of your salary into a bank account, then gave you 1/3 of it back, while giving the other 2/3 to someone who was saving up to undermine your retirement fund, would you do it? Would you give it to a dishonest person so they could more easily steal your car?

No? So WHY give it to Europe?????

neil-h

Is that not now taxation works?

hodgy0_2

Lol, your point still seems to be

I give £X to a (Gym, Golf Club - insert any club here) for membership and I am pissed of about it

And when someone points out you get access to the Course, the putting Greens, use of the driving range, subsidised food in the restaurant etc etc (the benefits of the membership fee)


And you simply say


I give £X for membership and I am pissed of about it - repeat ad infinitum

The Dogs B******s

This.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Simplistic argument.

I seem to be in a Golf Club which charges ME £3x, while giving £x to someone to join free and also slipping him another £x to put in his pocket?

Why on EARTH would I want to do that????????????

Would you? Because that seems to be what you are advocating?
Oh, and while I need to raise £3x for my subs, my children go without food one day a week and my house is falling down. It's laughable and you know it.

I mean, seriously, you are both scraping the barrel now

neil-h

You both? What you've complained about is exactly how taxation works.

dpb

So transits are built in Turkey now, not quite eastern block

hodgy0_2

Yes, in my wilder fantasies (my wealth/income comes mostly from the south and South east)

I wonder why i pay anything for the North of England, they contribute Fvck all tbh - the industry is a joke, most people live on "dole" street

They are a drain to me and my finances, I very rarely go there, - I have a 4x4 so am happy for zero investment in the road system and with the Tax saving I would make, I would pay for private health insurance should I be unfortunate enough to get ill whilst actually in the **** hole

Why London and the south of England continues to subsidies those feckless lazy northern w4nkers is a mystery

Apart from Scotland (they have Oil and my daughter is going to Edinburgh university)

Martin2005

You're so selfish

Martin2005

If he really gave a **** about these issues he'd be calling for tax increases.

Martin2005

And there you have it 'this'

Duh

Martin2005

The UKs rebate is still very much alive and kicking (as your own link confirms).
It was reduced in 2009, but the figures quoted earlier take all of that into account.

But anyway, 'this' (I assume that for team Thicko, 'this' means 'something that I really want to believe')?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Didn't the article say something about the UK being 8th on an amount per head of the population, and that the Dutch give the most.

Also sure our net contribution came down to £18m a day, which just goes to show how much mis-information there is floating about.

It would be nice if we could all see the real pro's and cons of membership without all this mis-information and scare mongering, then we may all actually be able to make an informed decision.

P.S; Still don't think it will make a blind bit of difference either way for the man on the street.

hodgy0_2

Yes, this is what I found strange, the figures where all there in the telegraph article, that take into account the anti-Blair linked figures, yet still they get bandied about

In conspiracy land they are called Pratt's - points refuted a thousand times

A sort of rhetorical whackamole - they get whacked but keep reappearing

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

But it's NOT a rebate Martin. it's what the EC ALLOW us to spend on ourselves from what we give them, EVERY country gets it. Thatcher just organised ours so she could claim it was a rebate, and could then hide it and spend it on everything SHE wanted. The other EC countries get theirs ringfenced for projects after outlining what the project is.

hence, when I go to France, ANOTHER new road, or Upgraded road, with signs proudly saying "Paid, in part, by the EC".

Over here, ours is wasted...what the hell do we see for it? Not much infrastructure, that's for sure.

Oh, and the continued use of insults demeans no-one but yourself.

dpb

18 mill !!?

That wouldn't even do Alcazars front drive

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I would gladly pay more tax if I could ALSO ensure that:
1. The taxes were spent fairly and inside the UK.
2. None was sent in foreign aid...not ONE PENNY while we are broke.
3. None of it ended up in greedy banker's pockets, likewise politicians.

You lot are trying to portray me as some sort of miser. It doesn't wash, I'm afraid.
I WOULD like to look after folk in the UK. It's like looking after your family first. Once they are alright, think about those outside the family.

But what you don't do, (unless you are such a liberal that your family don't matter), is give away the money that could help your family, to feckless strangers who have either mismanaged their lives or had them mismanaged for them and done nowt about it.

I give to homeless people on the streets in my town...but always ensure they are Brits before I give.

But no way would I give up huge sums of money to others if it meant my family didn't eat properly, have proper health care, lost their jobs, or were homeless.

Look, guys: we GET that you are good people. We GET that you care about others.

Just stop with the posturing.

As I said before, NONE of you would go so far as to harm your own.

And that's EXACTLY what the UK EC contribution does: takes from those in need here to give to those in need (by no fault of OURS) abroad.

It has to stop.

VOTE OUT!!!!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I wish LOL

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

Well said

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I agree with a large part of your sentiment, but the bits I have put in bold is where you and the right in general lose support of the majority (at least on here) These people have no more say in what happens in their country than we did about whether or not to drop bombs on Iraq. Those feeling the need to leave their countries and come to the UK have indeed been effected by UK foreign policy. It's ours and other governments actions that have led us where we are today.

Simples.

All you're doing is responding (see jumping up and down like a lunatic) to the end result, you're not looking at the cause, you need to look across the Atlantic for that.

Trust me when I tell you that no matter what votes are cast it will come out in favour of IN, we ain't leaving the EU, EVER, not a cat in hells chance of that happening, it's just a big show, smoke and mirrors to keep you all happy.

Martin2005

It's so short sighted to say we shouldn't give foreign aid, and help others. The current migrant crisis is a direct result of us ignoring the plight of others. We cannot live in a bubble, if we do nothing and follow the Alcazar model, then it will inevitably come back and bite us on the ****. History will just keep on repeating itself.

Martin2005

Thought this was a vote on EU membership, now you seem to be turning it into a debate about our UN membership.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

But we have been giving foreign aid, and Europe is still a mess. How can you say foreign aid is useful when this is the result?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yep with nice big Union Jack labels stuck on the pallet packaging to advertise and make sure they know what a nice lovely giving country we are...



Makes me wonder if there is any relation to those squatting in Calais wanting to go the UK after already passing through a number of "safe" EU countries that would/could (should? ) grant asylum. i.e "who" is telling them to go to the UK for "refuge".

Martin2005

Europe is a relative mess, some parts of the world are in chronic trouble.


The question that I believe should be asked is how can we be more effective with our foreign aid?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

The answer to that in most cases is suprisingly simple - English is their next-best language after their own, and they just don't want to have to learn French, Spanish, Italian or whatever. If they knew what it was actually like living here, they might think very differently.

hodgy0_2

there is probably a lot of truth in that

we should change our national language to Norwegian

would be a tough couple of years - but it might sort the refugee/migration problem out