hodgy0_2

Gove is dangerous - a conviction politician of the worst sort

he 1000% guaranteed he was not looking to be PM only 2 weeks ago

EddScott

Isn't May very anti-immigration? And very right wing?

Might suit the leavers I guess but given that immigration is probably going to be a bargaining chip, you could do with someone a little pragmatic on the subject.

Gove and Hunt are too toxic. The defence guy just wants some screen time

Devildog

Exactly - not that you would expect the average Express or Mail reader to understand that

BMWhere?

Daughter to be phased in by 1990! Brilliant find!

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

After the sh!tstorm he helped unleash, Boris really has got a serious nerve not standing. He's basically saying, "Yeah, you lot should do this Brexit thing, it's definitely the way forward. I'd never dare to myself though, far, far too risky for a man with my delicate constitution."

I'd happily see the guy bundled into the back of a black van in the dead of night and taken somewhere to be beaten for several hours with rubber hoses. Hypothetically, of course, as just like him I'm not the type of bloke to see things through in real life.

Martin2005

So now we have the unedifying sight of people who've lied to the country for the last 4 months, stabbing each other in the back.


Boris was destroyed by his own self-doubt. As some of us have been saying all along he never really believed the UK should leave, now the hard-core brexiteers have taken him out. I for one will not shed a tear.


I recoil at the thought of any of the liars becoming our PM.


If only we have an opposition.

c_maguire

There's a bit of cut and paste going on here.

That next PM thread might as well be closed as the EU referendum is behind it all anyway, much as is the case with the Labour implosion.

jonc

Significant is certainly wasn't, it was nothing more than just political posturing to a) appease the Scottish remain voters b) protest against Westminster c) set a course for her ambition for an independent Scotland. The platitudes of Juncker are pretty meaningless whilst the snubs from two of the largest EU economies lets Sturgeon know where her place is, firmly in the UK, there is no back door to the EU!! What she should not be doing is sneeking off to Brussels by herself to suck up to the EU leaders, she should, as part of the UK, look to helping the UK secure the best deal for UK as whole

Geezer

Yes she could have backed herself in to a corner. She may get independence, but there is no way Spain will vote for them to be in the EU, and it has to be all member states. An independent Scotland, with rubbish oil prices and no EU, wow, that would be disasterous!

Martin2005

We've just had 4 months where logical economic arguments simply bounced off the electorate. Why would another independence vote be any different?

GWJ

It's sort of looking like the expenses scandal, where all (most) of the politicians were exposed as being pigs at the trough.


Once again they are all found to be wanting. What a shower of shyte we have running the country. Gawd help us!

Martin2005

Actually it was a few

GWJ

I seem to recall it was more than a few

BMWhere?

I didn't say it was a good thing! But even as political posturing, it was certainly significant! She holds a lot of power in determining Britains future relationship with the EU. With this move, she has made it clear that she's ready to use that power if the outcome is not in Scotlands favour.

Martin2005

It certainly wasn't close to 'most'. But so what; facts don't seem to matter anymore

Devildog

In your opinion Jon.

Scotland doesn't want to leave the EU. She's looking to secure the best deal for Scotland. She's doing what I expect her to do as my First Minister at this stage in the process which is to is look after the best interests of the country of which she is first minister.

Arguably she's simply hedging her bets. Making Scotland's position clear. In person.

Looking to secure the best deal for the UK as a whole is secondary for Sturgeon right now. It may well come in time, but its not (and shouldn't be) her priority at a time when no one knows when (and indeed if) Article 50 will actually be invoked.

Edit - You're also assuming that Scotland would have to reapply to join the EU. Its been suggested that may not necessarily be the case and may be considered to already be a member.

GWJ

Pages of them


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...Telegraph.html


The quantity not the really the issue, perhaps I could have worded that better. The destruction of their credibility and trust is more the point where they are all tarred with the same brush of being selfish, self serving, lying and untrustworthy

Martin2005

Which is exactly what you just did

hodgy0_2

almost impossible to say - but in your opinion and with the benefit of hindsight

would current events have swayed the vote a different way - i.e. Out

and by current events I mean both the reduction in Oil prices and the Out vote

Geezer

You do have a very valid point there, Martin!

JTaylor

https://vimeo.com/169521261

jonc

Of course she trying to hedge her bets. I'm guessing she went to Brussels to see if Scotland could retain the terms the UK currently has with the EU as an independent state. Clearly that is not going to be possible. She will have two options, work with the rest of the UK to ensure Scotland gets the best possible deal with the EU as part of the UK or work with the EU independently to get the best possible deal for Scotland in joining the EU as an independent state. Each requires monumentus effort and resources and cannot effectively do both at the same time.

But she is using the Brexit as a material change as a mandate to call for a second referendum and is bolstered by the 62% Scottish voters to remain in the EU. Article 50 invocation is pretty much a certainty and she will have no other choice but to hold a second referendum AND join/remain in the EU if she is to stay true to her word.

Question is how will the referendum be based? It could be that Scotland declares independence and become an independent state with its own currency and join the EU (terms unknown) or declare independence and fully integrate in to the EU and adopt the Euro. Brexit greatly complicates Scottish independence than before. Scotland either way will be weaker economically, much like the UK is outside of the EU. She is slowly backing herself into corner and making the same mistake Cameron did.

Regarding your last point, it was suggested that Scotland would not have to reapply to join the EU in the previous referendum and was strongly rejected by the EU states. The chances of this happening now is even less as Scotland will not be able to use GBP as this currency would no longer be a recognised currency in the EU and as before, the rest of the UK will not allow it. Plus Scotland itself will only have 2 years in which to complete a deal from the point, under the terms of Article 50 is invoked, when the UK will formally exit the EU.

This of course is my opinion of which you can either take it in the interest of discussion or leave it.

DYK

The way in which this referendum has gone, the slagging,all the problems its caused,people/families have actually fallen out with each other not talking.
I can't see why people not all,can't accept the outcome.its disapponting when you're on the loosing side,but
are we just going to keep voting time and time again on the same issues ? .
I'm beginning to wish that the Government just come out say,this referendum hasn't gone well,its caused more problems than any one anticipated.We thought about it and are going to not begin article 50 ,talk to the EU about remaining in.I think I'd just go with it.Scrap referendums,let the government decide these issues,only let people vote in local/general elections.

Turbohot

Sure you do.

I thought he was being nice to you tbh, because you acted very accepting of the change that he vigorously favoured; the change that was contrary to your expectations. but the cost of sustaining Warren's niceness would have been not to slag Brexit or Farage off ever again. I think it's a very high cost to pay, and therefore, it became like a love-hate relationship between you two. That's why you two had a very short marriage and then a divorce.

There's a parallel visible between the EU-Britain and you-Warren relationship. Difference is that it's Warren with EU stylee definite rulings, whereas you're just on for a bit of freedom for sensible thought and expression, if not kicking the foreigners out.

I'm surprised you haven't celebrated your Independence Day yet, Martin.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

That one line slays me. Every time.

The way he delivers it. Pure genius.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

what power has she got ?
it ain't ***** power i wouldn't **** that with a stolen ****

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

This. Or like in a few other countries where if things are put to a vote that effectively mean a change to the constitution, the result is only binding if it gets a 2/3 majority.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Gotta love the genius that is Mr Morris.

Do you reckon them showing the union flag at the end, upside down (in the 'distress' position), was deliberate?

Valiok

I think, if UK will go out it will be bad for England and all Uk, 100% Scotland will go out of Uk, and i think others will leave step by step. I think its was just bad idea to start this "Voting" in first place.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Not really kept up with all this, but serious question.

Is there any chance they will hild another referendum?