These men are social inadequates

Priviledged social inadequates

 

We get it fine, there is only science. Every single thing that man use to attribute to God or mysticism is slowly, but surely being described by science. Eventually, we will understand what consciousness is.


It's like idiots who say "it's the supernatural". If it exists, then by its very definition, it's natural.


If God did exist, he could be described scientifically.


It's the age old fall back position of religion, I have faith. Your science is wrong. Despite not having a single shred of anything to support your position except the bible.


It's like putting your fingers in your ears and going "la la la, I can't hear you".

 

During this conversation, what science I have said is wrong?

 

So how does your belief deal with babies and children who have died, still-birthed or miscarried, especially since we are all born sinners and add to the fact that they wouldn't have the cognitive ability to acknowledge their "sin"? How are they able to receive salvation, God will judge ALL. Are they considered innocent and get a free ticket into heaven as they are unable to discern good and evil, unable to make moral choices? If so, what is the fate of those who are mentally insane or have the mental capacity of a child who have committed murderous acts and know not what they do as "voices" told them to do it or that their interpretation of religious scripture compels them to do what we would deem as evil? What of those who have never even heard of the Gospel?

(please no parables, verses or quotes from the Bible)

 

The onus is on the person making the claims to prove them. So come on JT let's see your proof...

 

Don't hold your breath, 27 pages and counting

 

I'm sure you well know that that statement was a generalisation, but seeing as you ask, your very belief, and some of the links you have posted infer you think science is wrong.

Theistic evolution goes against science, for one. It tries to fit evolution in with religion, but it is nothing of the sort. In one of your links to a previous thread, you also said that one of the things that led you to convert was the odds of protein formation, but that leaves several stages out, so again, ignoring or denying the science.

It's like saying the eye is proof of intelligent design as nothing so useful could evolve it's too difficult.

 

Not possible, please explain how something that is not true becomes true? In my mind something is either true or a myth/lie, there is no grey area, therefore a true myth is not possible, except in the sense that it is truly a myth

 

This.

Sorry JT but do you actually read some of the bollocks you post before hitting the button?

Any sane, rational, non brain washed, human being would surely think, "what a complete load of total and utter bollocks." A true myth lol. At least it made me giggle a little bit on this very dull wet day while I am sat in my van waiting for home time.....

 

The odds of protein formation are not that great in the grand scheme of things, on their own they are but if you consider all the billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and each star having many planets then the chances of it occurring are perfectly possible to me, the odds of winning the lottery are massive if there is only 1 ticket bought, however if you buy 14 millions tickets then it's almost a certainty

The human mind is incapable of understanding how truly massive the universe is, in such a truly massive place all sorts of improbable things are highly likely to occur

The problem is humans have a warped sense of self importance, we are an insignificant speck in the grand scheme of the universe, this is not easy to swallow for some and they prefer to think we are far more important than we actually are.

The sad thing for me is that the thought of a heaven waiting for you after this life leads many to not live this life to the full as they spend it preparing for the next life, Jt provided a stunning example by saying I require his prayers, what a waste of the short time we have on this earth.

He also avoided answering what would happen if I prayed for Him not to pray for me and how that would work out?

the problem is God is the answer to some very big questions but introduces a million more small questions. All stemming from the need to know the meaning of life, there is no meaning of life, you're born, you die, thats all there is to it, it happens to every living thing, some humans are just arrogant enough to think we are something special

 

I think what Geezer is saying is that the odds on instantaneous formation of proteins may well be very very high

but again that this is a misrepresentation of the science - the beginning of "life" was a culmination of many individual processes, it was NOT instantaneous formation of proteins

but you are right to make the general point regarding "odds/statistics" and peoples inability to understand them


if you are interested the origins of life (as opposed to Darwinian evolution by natural selection)

are explored in this short video

 

I can excuse the fact that back in the day people believed the Bible, how would they know any better? There was no science, no education, no TV, radio, Internet or any other source of information, it would probably seem perfectly plausible and would have been taken as a literal description of how it all works. If there is no better theory then it would seem like the most plausible explanation

The problem arises when we learn more and more and have access to all these different sources of information, then the Bible becomes non-literal and some parts are true, some are myth, as it becomes obvious that some of the things it describes cannot be true,we need to interpret it instead.

What happened to Mars, the God of war, Thor, the God of thunder. Does anyone worship them any more? There have been many many gods that humans have worshipped over the years, without fail they fall by the wayside and are replaced by the next one. If Jt were born in times gone by I'm sure he would hear Thor/Mars/insert any other God from history/horus/Neptune in his heart

As I have said the human mind is a very powerful thing and can sadly play tricks on us that we cannot over ride

 

Interesting video, regarding odds I offer the following point for Jt to ponder

In a simple deck of 52 cards there are a staggering 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible combinations u can end up with from a single shuffle of the deck

When you shuffle the deck you have ended up with a 1 in 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance that the actual combination u ended up with would occur, but it did occur

Now that is some pretty slim odds, would that be a reason to turn to god, after all it was almost impossible!

Now ponder the odds if instead of a pack of 52 cards you had a deck of cards that contained a number of cards equal to the number of atoms in the entire universe, the number of possible outcomes would literally be impossible to write down, out of all those possible outcomes there are bound to be some strange outcomes, we are but 1 of those possible outcomes, nothing more, nothing less

 

Several of which could well involve the existence of a God.

 

Well that can't be right, the existence of God open to chance? God is supposedly omnipotent, the unmoved mover; either he exists or he doesn't and therefore not open to several possible outcomes otherwise it would result in there being the existence of several possible Gods. Well, that's how I see it.

 

Yes, it is a good point

In a way my whole problem with "religion" is they way it feels it has some immutable right to fill in gaps in human knowledge

It must form in an orderly queue like the rest of the unknowns

 

Yes he has a great YouTube channel - Potholer54

He attempts to answer, what I think is a great question, which is essentially

"How do we know what we know"

Most people (me included) take so much for granted, sometimes it is humbling to actually wonder at the science behind our every day lives and try and understand how actually we "know what we know"

Check it out if you are interested

 

I can't argue with that, they may also involve the existence of unicorns, dragons, bigfoot and anything else you care to choose, I have never denied that there may be a God, just as bigfoot may exist, however until I see some evidence I just don't buy it

If God was proven to be real I would accept that fact, if it were the other way round and God were proven to not exist do you think that Christians would be so ready or able to accept that fact, I sure dont

Jt loves to quote the Bible as evidence of God, For me the Bible is no more evidence that God exists than bram stokers literary works are evidence that dracula exists, I could quote passages from bram stokers book all day, it does not mean that dracula is real.

 

I am In awe at the amazing nature of the universe, it is a truly awe inspiring thing

I saw something on TV the other day which sums up the perverseness of religion, a guy was in a horrific car crash and the doctors and nurses managed to save his life, when he was interviewed, guess what he said?

Yep you got it, "I thank God" not an ounce of credit to the people who actually saved his life. To me anyone who cannot see the ignorance in that statement has issues

 

Right.I remember watching a documentary about an incredibly talented surgeon.Absolutely incredibly talented.Did he think God was a nonsense? No

After he carried out an operation on a child he said "I have done all I can.The rest is now up to God"

Pretty sure he wasn't a nutter masquerading as a Consultant in a hospital or subscibed to an ex rally car site.lol

 

Just saying :-) ......

 

He has great videos on the origins of the universe


And yes perverse, it is so riddled with contradictions and inconsistancies - requiring internal mental gymnastics that would make Olga Corbett proud

 

Just saying what?

If he is responsible fo saving the girl he is also responsible for killing all the other girls who die of preventable diseases

Cherrypicking is another hallmark of pseudoscience

You seem to be simply filling in the gaps

It's nonsense

 

And I have no problem with that, it just struck me as remarkably ignorant that God got the credit for saving this man's life, was it the skills and dedication of the doctors and nurses who saved the man in my examples life, or was it God?

My opinion, and it should be the opinion of any logical person, is that it was the doctors and nurses who saved his life, and to give them no credit and simply thank God is to me, disgraceful, why did God make him suffer all the pain of being in a horrific car crash in the first place, to then save his life? If there is a God then he sure likes to play some screwed up games that's for sure

 

For anyone who thinks that religion does no harm please Google the case of Anneliese Michel, if her parents weren't so blinded by religion I feel this story would have had a much better ending, she would have got the help she so badly needed rather than the awful ending that befell her.

 

All I am saying is a highly intelligent man,with the ability to save lives,still believes in God as the final say so

:-)

 

Religion is always a good thread.And rightly so.

To me,no one will ever explain the beginning of the universe,the start of time,and so many unexplained matters.

Best chance we had..Hadron Collider or whatever it was.And it broke down.lol

 

Im sure some of the believers of bigfoot are highly intelligent also, in no way does that make it real.

Is there anything in anyone's life that they believe in without any evidence other than God? There is absolutely nothing I believe in that has no evidence to back it up, it is simply illogical to do so

 

Ben Carson, brilliant paediatric surgeon and presidential candidate believes in the suger plum fairy

And?

 

This explains it