Love equals having a soul??

Does a dog that sits by its dead owner for days love said owner?' it would appear so, If so by your logic it has a soul:

Dog has a soul

Does dog go to heaven?

No, doesn't believe

Only option left goes to hell

All dogs are destined to go to hell, jolly chap God isn't he?

 

I think k one of those office flow chaet things is appropriate here.

Where in reality all options lead to do not pass go, do not collect £200, go straight to he'll. ...

 

Unless you have got a get out of jail free card don't forget, I think it's called repenting

 

Rejoining the daftness then? It depends how you define the nature of soul, and if such a thing exists why would an animate object be more likely to have one than, say, a car or a sewing machine?

 

You need to define love before you can leap to the conclusion that a dog can 'love' its master. What is the love that a dog has?

 

One has to acknowledge their sin before they can repent. Do you have any sin, Bulldog?

 

Can we please stop this? From what I've read stating who goes where is based on belief is really over simplifying the actual point.

Yeah, it's like trying to debate with Alcazar. I try to stay away but when there's not much better to do, it's hard work.

I guess for me the fundamental difference is consciousness/awareness. Given the soul tends to be thought of as the essence of the person (personality etc), then it's hard to see how something without any discernible consciousness could have a soul. That is of course unless you're one of those people who likes to anthropomorphisise things (we all do it on some level), in which case it's a different discussion entirely.

 

Impossible to do, love Is a made up word, as all words are. except its meaning is totally different to each person, it is simply an evolved version of the pheromones that insects give off, ie a chemical reaction.

all species attract each other, some stay together for life and mourn the death of their partner. Life has evolved because of 1 thing, reproduction, every single thing reproduces and having a natural attraction to a partner is an inbuilt, evolved feature of all living creatures

Some of these attractions only last a night, some of them a lifetime.

I had my go at defining love, you have a try and we shall see which makes more sense

 

Apologies if I have mis-understood, and correct me if I am wrong.

If you don't believe can you go to heaven? I was under the impression you cannot, therefore belief determines where you go?

Can I get into heaven then? Without believing?

 

So what do you think we are made of? Some magical indefinable 'stuff'? Obviously not, we're made mostly of oxygen, carbon and hydrogen, stardust residue like everything else in the universe. So nothing special at all to suggest a soul. For me, the great miracle is that, in us, and for the first time in many billions of years, the universe is at last able to observe itself and begin to understand itself. Is God in there somewhere? Perhaps.

 

Best thing I have read so far, and even ends with "is God in there somewhere, perhaps?" If only religion allowed you to think like that.

 

You're correct in as such that you do need to believe but there are 9 other commandments which you must also adhere to (as a bare minimum).

 

So how does your definition of love apply to the dog in your example? You know bestiality is a sin, right?

Now from 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

This applies to any of the four loves.

 

Yes good post

Being made from stardust is pretty cool IMO

 

So belief determines where you go then. The other 9 commandments are irrelevant, I don't believe so I'm not getting into heaven, so looks like hell for me, how is that over simplifying the point?

 

As Carl Sagan put it "we are a way for the cosmos to know itself".

We are conscious of consciousness and this is what separates us from 'the machines'. So, do humans have a soul?

 

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

 

The original point of contention was that people go to heaven just because they believe (e.g. Sex offenders, murderes etc). Hence what I was saying about the 10 commandments.

As for where you go when you die, if you don't believe in either then surely it's a moot point. Unless of course we're actually wrong and the bible is right. In which case I stand by something I said earlier in that I'd like to think if there is actually a god, then it'd be a reasonable individual and all the daftness in the bible is just twisting of meanings. So whether or not you go to heaven/hell would be taken on a balance of how you lived your life and how you justify it, not just whether you believe in God.

 

Low blow but I left the door open, if your definition of love is all the things you listed, there are no loving couples in the world, that is an idealised load of twaddle to be honest,

There are all sorts of chemical reactions that occur in the human body, these cause everything from fear, to excitement, to anger, this can be proven scientifically, and animals exhibit the exact same behaviour, it s how drugs make you feel and behave differently, a chemical reaction and nothing more.

My dog inspires a chemical reaction in my body as do many other things, it's impossible to describe each one individually as there are so many combinations. The English language is limited, I love McDonald's, it's only words

 

JT has broken a few of these with his sex outside of marriage.

Hellfire and damnation await you my friend, I guess I'll see you there.....

 

I would also like to think IF there is a God he is nothing like his reputation, his reputation doth proceedeth him

 

Ok, well I'll let the immense flaws in your dog syllogism go seeing as you acknowledged it.

How do you describe our capacity to be conscious of consciousness in these reductionist terms?

 

See you there, make sure you say hi

 

That's my biggest issue with religion in general tbh. Most religions are the same saying you must do/not do X Y and Z otherwise you'll go to hell. So a fundamentally good person who dedicates there life to others but doesn't believe in God/the Bible etc goes to hell, nah can't see that being the case.

 

Most poetic; a typically gloomy Christian view of everything strikes again!

 

I much prefer "Ashes to ashes, funk to funky, We know Major Tom's a junkie".

 

Well according to Jt, who hears God in his heart and I quote

"if that means Hindley's in and Ghandis out, then so be it"

It looks like that is indeed the case

 

And there in lies the absurdity of what the church tells people about God.

 

Yeah quite

Wonderful and inspiring

We came from stardust and return to stardust

 

I think that it began with language, most creatures have some sort of language, however it is so limited it can only be used for the most important messages they need to convey to each other, none of which are why are we here.

Now humans have evolved, as has their language, it just so happens that our language has evolved to such a level that we can send messages to each other of staggering complexity

This did not happen overnight, cavemen did not have discussions about why we are here, but they would have been able to send each other basic messages, were they conscious of their own consciousness? I doubt it but they would have had feelings, fears and all the other things that most living creatures have. So when is the time we became self aware? Hard to tell but I don't think God had anything to do with it.