RS_Matt

"Only Christians can incite racial hatred" - Matt_RS 05/07/15

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...rebar_facebook

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Shush Matthew grown ups are talking.

legb4rsk

The way I see it if you believe any of the things written is that Jesus was very much into tolerance, peace & love & fixing social injustice.

So why do the various churches have massive buildings crammed with priceless treasures on some of the most valuable real estate in the world?
Should they not re-invest all that wealth into doing the work Jesus started?

Can someone tell me where in the Bible it says that they had to build all these places & accumulate all that wealth?

DYK

From memory i can't recall that it does,and i don't think Jesus ever intended for the churches to be a place of great wealth,think this is Mans own doing.

(Mark 11:15-19; Luke 19:45-48; John 2:12-25)
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,and said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Its for their own wealth and greed even the vatican have their own super telescope named the Lucifer telescope,they believe that aliens are Coming to save the earth.this device underground in Switzerland they do the dance of shiva and are others various groups and hidden government experiments trying to open portals etc to bring demons back on the earth.and Jesus said the time is coming when everything that is covered up will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all.

And their has been a lot covered up over time which is now being more and more revealed.look up project blue bleam just one example of many.

JTaylor

On the contrary, John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Choose not to believe and you do not receive eternal life in Christ Jesus. That's the deal.

JTaylor

The New Testament commands Jesus' followers to be humble in the same way as He humbled Himself. The ostentation of the high church, both Protestant and Catholic, is an embarrassment and unGodly. It's one of the reasons I attend a small, independent, Baptist chapel. I'm humble and proud.

Turbohot

I'm not with John on this, I'm afraid. He's entitled to what he says in the Bible, and I'm entitled to what I think. I don't limit God to Bible or any other God related scripture. In addition, I'm not bothered if I don't receive eternal life in Jesus Christ either.

Martin2005

[QUOTE=JTaylor;11706426]In John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That's explicit. In Matthew 7:15 Jesus warns of false prophets. QUOTE]

This is where I find a problem with Christianity (or any other organised religion).

Is this not a completely brainless interpretation of what Jesus meant? Surely he was pointing to a way of living your life, not to blind faith?

I believe that Jesus was a highly evolved and deeply spiritual individual. He never asked people to worship him, go to a church, create institutions or any other element of religious ritual, he asked them to follow his example, live better lives and be good. He would never decriminate, and therefore how can the only way into heaven be by being a Christian?

hodgy0_2

But this is a fundamental aspect of Christianity - entry to the Kingdom of heaven is through Jesus

So no matter how well/moral you live your life it is pointless, you are simply an empty vessel, and without Jesus you will not get entry to heaven

Similarly 70 years of being a cvnt, can easily be absolved by letting Jesus into your life

The ultimate insurance policy

urban

iTrader: (1)

That phrase sounds like something the old dodgy catholic priests would come out with right before they bust some wee boys ****

neil-h

But the vast majority of people who don't believe in god also don't believe in eternal life/reincarnation, so the whole discussion is academic really.

hodgy0_2

yes, and then they could ask for forgiveness - and receive it

until the next time!!!

JTaylor

I hear you, I once held a similar position. Have a go at this, C.S.Lewis's 'trilemma':

JTaylor

John Newton.

JTaylor

Yes, I agree, it should only be relevant to theists. Although I like to witness to atheists because it is my belief that they may receive salvation. I was once a fairly militant atheist.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Absolutely.

Couple of hail mary's and an our father, thats you done and dusted

Turbohot

Should it only be relevant to the Christians; in other words? May be you don't mind witnessing folks from other faiths as long as you can prove Christianity academically as the best path to God via Jesus; the middle agent?

Turbohot

Hodgy, I have rubbed in with a few Christians in my life time. Some of them are ok, but some of them are so warped that there's no point talking rationality with them. Narrow and blinded people who can't see further than their own index finger!

hodgy0_2

and now a militant Christian

the key here is "militancy" not what comes after it

Turbohot

LOL Perfectly put.

(That's with all due regard to James otherwise, whenever he deserves it, like. )

hodgy0_2

I don't have a problem with any religion per se, I take everyone I meet on their merits as a human being

what makes me laugh is that both JTaylor and Anjem Chouldry agree that ultimately God has sole jurisdiction over the lives of men/women

and Dingdongler exposes the facility that they all think their "team" is the best

and the ultimate irony is that both JTaylor and Anjem Chouldry are talking about the same God, in reality they have a few "technical" disagreements


but on the "big" stuff they are in 100% agreement

JTaylor

No, I said theists. Logically, atheists should be unconcerned by Jesus' divinity as they simply do not believe in God. Once that declaration has been made, whether Jesus is or is not divine is a moot point.

I don't believe Jesus to be the best path to God, I believe Jesus to be the only path to God. This assumes we're talking about the Abrahamic God. As ever one needs to be certain of the definitions before one wades in to an exchange of views.

Turbohot

God being boxed as the Abrahamic God? Very narrow. Jesus is the only way to him? Very narrow! Yes, I better take myself out of this discussion, because no one can battle with your dazzling intellect.

Turbohot

I've read James's answer to that. I have same problem as Dingdongler's with all such faiths. But we need to bear in mind that James is not concerned with any other God. He's talking about the Abrahamic God. According to him, Jesus is the only way to the Abrahamic God unless we prove otherwise.

JTaylor

Matthew 7:13-14

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Turbohot

All good but not convinced with Matthew asserting it in the context of the faith.

Anyway, have a good day.

JTaylor

And you, Swati.

neil-h

That being said I'd like to think that if there is indeed a God and he is indeed the father of creation etc, then it would be a subject for discussion. I.e. if you chose not to believe in God but still live as a reasonable considerate person, then it wouldn't be a simple case of eternal damnation just because you didn't believe.

JTaylor

Mark 16:16 says:

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

That's what it says in Christian scripture.

neil-h

This is part of my problem with religion. The idea that if you don't believe then you're thrown under the bus simply doesn't tie in with the image that the bible paints of God/Jesus.