Stop giving your life to Jesus!
15 July 2015, 10:00 AM
#511
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What he's trying to suggest is that I'm not particularly intelligent, which is one of the definitions, and I concede if intelligence is being measured by ones ability to quote philosophers and their musings, rather than actually possessing or coming up with any original or independent thoughts of your own.
15 July 2015, 10:48 AM
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15 July 2015, 11:00 AM
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What he's trying to suggest is that I'm not particularly intelligent, which is one of the definitions, and I concede if intelligence is being measured by ones ability to quote philosophers and their musings, rather than actually possessing or coming up with any original or independent thoughts of your own.
15 July 2015, 11:03 AM
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Egg face 
15 July 2015, 11:19 AM
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15 July 2015, 11:22 AM
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16 July 2015, 08:15 AM
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We looked at 1 Peter 1:8-9 in Bible study last night:
The joy I find in my walk with Jesus is, as the KJV renders it, a 'joy unspeakable and full of glory!' It is because of Him that I've found life. It is because of Him that I have put to death the old man. It is because of Him that I can walk through the valley of the shadow of death unafraid! I love The Lord with all my heart, all of my soul and all of my mind! Does anyone else feel like this? 
8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
16 July 2015, 09:02 AM
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Love is a powerful thing and should be directed at family, maybe even close friends, nature, maybe a sport that thrills you.
To reserve most of it for a made-up God just seems a waste of a precious emotion.
To reserve most of it for a made-up God just seems a waste of a precious emotion.
16 July 2015, 09:16 AM
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16 July 2015, 09:26 AM
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How did evolution come into being? The Big Bang? What triggered the Big Bang? The multiverse? What triggered the multiverse? As Mark quoted earlier, at the bottom of the glass you find God.
Last edited by JTaylor; 16 July 2015 at 09:30 AM.
16 July 2015, 11:21 AM
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Since the image of God had been destroyed in us by the Fall, we may judge from its restoration what it originally had been. Paul says that we are transformed into the image of God by the gospel. And, according to him, spiritual regeneration is nothing else than the restoration of the same image. (Colossians 3:10, and Ephesians 4:23.)
A ten million year old amoeba does't look much like a man.
16 July 2015, 11:36 AM
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Why just quote slightly (but often not very) relevant bits of the bible?
It's like someone asking me why I like surfing and me regurgitating Duke Kahanamoku's quotes. It smacks of insecurity - you can't argue the points yourself so you have to use the "crutch" which is the bible. The more that crutch is needed, the better people learn it. You can end up forgetting original thought and just become a quoting machine.
Another point - myself and many others would give a wide berth to anyone known as a devout Christian; why? Because they are always a bit weird and always trying to convert others.
Sometimes you feel happy - enjoy it and don't "thank" anyone but real people for it.
Sometimes you feel sad - talk to others about it. Don't "seek the advice" of a made up entity.
We make our own happiness - no one else does. If this belief makes you happy, that's good. But relying on it to "solve" problems is a weakness IMO - solve it yourself or with friends and family.
I am a regular at a local cafe/community centre; it's actually a Methodist church (only on Sundays) but used five days a week as a place to get decent coffee, snacks, lunch and chill out. It's VERY relaxed and all the staff and "Directors" are pretty cool. All surf, all contributr to the community so much so that I've helped them out on numerous occasions. They are all Christians of varying levels - they never ever preach. They don't try and relentlessly quote the bible - it's all there if you want it but if you're not interested, there's no issues at all. They are all comfortable with life and a bit of Faith - they roll their eyes when some completely obsessive Christian comes in being totally OTT too.
That's how it should be IMO.
It's like someone asking me why I like surfing and me regurgitating Duke Kahanamoku's quotes. It smacks of insecurity - you can't argue the points yourself so you have to use the "crutch" which is the bible. The more that crutch is needed, the better people learn it. You can end up forgetting original thought and just become a quoting machine.
Another point - myself and many others would give a wide berth to anyone known as a devout Christian; why? Because they are always a bit weird and always trying to convert others.
Sometimes you feel happy - enjoy it and don't "thank" anyone but real people for it.
Sometimes you feel sad - talk to others about it. Don't "seek the advice" of a made up entity.
We make our own happiness - no one else does. If this belief makes you happy, that's good. But relying on it to "solve" problems is a weakness IMO - solve it yourself or with friends and family.
I am a regular at a local cafe/community centre; it's actually a Methodist church (only on Sundays) but used five days a week as a place to get decent coffee, snacks, lunch and chill out. It's VERY relaxed and all the staff and "Directors" are pretty cool. All surf, all contributr to the community so much so that I've helped them out on numerous occasions. They are all Christians of varying levels - they never ever preach. They don't try and relentlessly quote the bible - it's all there if you want it but if you're not interested, there's no issues at all. They are all comfortable with life and a bit of Faith - they roll their eyes when some completely obsessive Christian comes in being totally OTT too.
That's how it should be IMO.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 16 July 2015 at 11:40 AM.
16 July 2015, 11:39 AM
#528
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Why just quote slightly (but often not very) relevant bits of the bible?
It's like someone asking me why I like surfing and me regurgitating Duke Kahanamoku's quotes. It smacks of insecurity - you can't argue the points yourself so you have to use the "crutch" which is the bible. The more that crutch is needed, the better people learn it. You can end up forgetting original thought and just become a quoting machine.
Another point - myself and many others would give a wide berth to anyone known as a devout Christian; why? Because they are always a bit weird and always trying to convert others.
Sometimes you feel happy - enjoy it and don't "thank" anyone but real people for it.
Sometimes you feel sad - talk to others about it. Don't "seek the advice" of a made up entity.
We make our own happiness - no one else does. If this belief makes you happy, that's good. But relying on it to "solve" problems is a weakness IMO - solve it yourself or with friends and family.
It's like someone asking me why I like surfing and me regurgitating Duke Kahanamoku's quotes. It smacks of insecurity - you can't argue the points yourself so you have to use the "crutch" which is the bible. The more that crutch is needed, the better people learn it. You can end up forgetting original thought and just become a quoting machine.
Another point - myself and many others would give a wide berth to anyone known as a devout Christian; why? Because they are always a bit weird and always trying to convert others.
Sometimes you feel happy - enjoy it and don't "thank" anyone but real people for it.
Sometimes you feel sad - talk to others about it. Don't "seek the advice" of a made up entity.
We make our own happiness - no one else does. If this belief makes you happy, that's good. But relying on it to "solve" problems is a weakness IMO - solve it yourself or with friends and family.
16 July 2015, 11:45 AM
#529
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I am a regular at a local cafe/community centre; it's actually a Methodist church (only on Sundays) but used five days a week as a place to get decent coffee, snacks, lunch and chill out. It's VERY relaxed and all the staff and "Directors" are pretty cool. All surf, all contributr to the community so much so that I've helped them out on numerous occasions. They are all Christians of varying levels - they never ever preach. They don't try and relentlessly quote the bible - it's all there if you want it but if you're not interested, there's no issues at all. That's how it should be IMO.
16 July 2015, 05:29 PM
#530
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Even Wolf packs look out for there own and there are countless,countless examples of cooperative behavior in nature for the sole purpose of the survival of the species.
It even contains the totally dishonest technique of quote mining.
the FULL Dawkins quote is as follows:
"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
The fact we as humans (at least for the most part) live by certain morals mean we can coexist and thrive more efficiently.
"We have Morals therefore god exists" is perhaps the most cretinous argument any theist can come up with.
By there definition aborigines would have raped pillaged and murdered themselves out of existence but instead without god they have existed at best estimates for some 50,000 years.
before anyone counters yes i do appreciate aborigines had wars but they would be about hunting rights and territories and so far is known never about subjugation.
This argument against Secular morality is something theist always seem to trot out usually combined with smug condescending sneer.
Religion did NOT invent Moral behaviour
16 July 2015, 06:44 PM
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Sorry to be so late to the party but everyone seems to have let this load a tautologous and utterly fallacious twaddle slip by without challenge.
Even Wolf packs look out for there own and there are countless,countless examples of cooperative behavior in nature for the sole purpose of the survival of the species.
It even contains the totally dishonest technique of quote mining.
the FULL Dawkins quote is as follows:
"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
The fact we as humans (at least for the most part) live by certain morals mean we can coexist and thrive more efficiently.
"We have Morals therefore god exists" is perhaps the most cretinous argument any theist can come up with.
By there definition aborigines would have raped pillaged and murdered themselves out of existence but instead without god they have existed at best estimates for some 50,000 years.
before anyone counters yes i do appreciate aborigines had wars but they would be about hunting rights and territories and so far is known never about subjugation.
This argument against Secular morality is something theist always seem to trot out usually combined with smug condescending sneer.
Religion did NOT invent Moral behaviour
Even Wolf packs look out for there own and there are countless,countless examples of cooperative behavior in nature for the sole purpose of the survival of the species.
It even contains the totally dishonest technique of quote mining.
the FULL Dawkins quote is as follows:
"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
The fact we as humans (at least for the most part) live by certain morals mean we can coexist and thrive more efficiently.
"We have Morals therefore god exists" is perhaps the most cretinous argument any theist can come up with.
By there definition aborigines would have raped pillaged and murdered themselves out of existence but instead without god they have existed at best estimates for some 50,000 years.
before anyone counters yes i do appreciate aborigines had wars but they would be about hunting rights and territories and so far is known never about subjugation.
This argument against Secular morality is something theist always seem to trot out usually combined with smug condescending sneer.
Religion did NOT invent Moral behaviour
16 July 2015, 07:16 PM
#532
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16 July 2015, 07:25 PM
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You mean I'll disagree with your assertion that "pretty much all religions share the same moral code." Of course I'll disagree. You anticipating an obvious response doesn't render said response invalid. I think we'll coin this the 'Hodgy fallacy'.
16 July 2015, 07:43 PM
#535
Sorry to be so late to the party but everyone seems to have let this load a tautologous and utterly fallacious twaddle slip by without challenge.
Even Wolf packs look out for there own and there are countless,countless examples of cooperative behavior in nature for the sole purpose of the survival of the species.
It even contains the totally dishonest technique of quote mining.
the FULL Dawkins quote is as follows:
"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
The fact we as humans (at least for the most part) live by certain morals mean we can coexist and thrive more efficiently.
"We have Morals therefore god exists" is perhaps the most cretinous argument any theist can come up with.
By there definition aborigines would have raped pillaged and murdered themselves out of existence but instead without god they have existed at best estimates for some 50,000 years.
before anyone counters yes i do appreciate aborigines had wars but they would be about hunting rights and territories and so far is known never about subjugation.
This argument against Secular morality is something theist always seem to trot out usually combined with smug condescending sneer.
Religion did NOT invent Moral behaviour
Even Wolf packs look out for there own and there are countless,countless examples of cooperative behavior in nature for the sole purpose of the survival of the species.
It even contains the totally dishonest technique of quote mining.
the FULL Dawkins quote is as follows:
"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
The fact we as humans (at least for the most part) live by certain morals mean we can coexist and thrive more efficiently.
"We have Morals therefore god exists" is perhaps the most cretinous argument any theist can come up with.
By there definition aborigines would have raped pillaged and murdered themselves out of existence but instead without god they have existed at best estimates for some 50,000 years.
before anyone counters yes i do appreciate aborigines had wars but they would be about hunting rights and territories and so far is known never about subjugation.
This argument against Secular morality is something theist always seem to trot out usually combined with smug condescending sneer.
Religion did NOT invent Moral behaviour
16 July 2015, 08:00 PM
#537
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Some of the American aboriginals evolved a monotheistic belief system, a form of panentheism, distinct from old world influence.
16 July 2015, 09:24 PM
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Like Dawkins states it is brutal and unforgiving but don't see how it can possibly be stated as selfish.
Nihilistic ? No of course not why would you assume that from my statement.
Nature and the universe is totally awe inspiring the fact we actually exist is quite incredible.
By the way much kudos to you for keeping your kool,and taking all these brick bats with good grace.
I spent many a happy hour at Baptist Sunday school with some genuinely humble and sincere folks.
Baptists and Sally army are the few religious people I have time for.