john banks

I used to be semi skilled in Christian apologetics in that I could out argue the vast majority I came across, but I suspect that would not have included JT. However, most of them had just been convinced to believe in fairies, and they knew it.

hodgy0_2

My parents, my wife,s parents

All my life long friends parents for not brainwashing any of us to subject our humanity to a supernatural being

And if any of my children did become religious, I would see that as a failure in my parenting/teaching

hodgy0_2

Where is the evidence for this, in the "here and now"

Presumably it should be blindly obvious

Show me an area country or region of this planet that demonstrates religion works, and produces justice

JTaylor

So you go back just a couple of generations? Is that not a little short sighted?

JTaylor

Satan is the god of this world.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't go as far as to say brain washing, but you don't need to try too hard with enquiring young minds. They're not strict with them, but give out badges for activities and good behaviour and teach them a moral code, which is fine by me and it's good for the boy to mix with other kids as he has no siblings.

It's a good group and a nice bunch of people, but it's run mostly by the local Vicar and her husband, so obviously religion comes into it, Vicar if that's what she should be called is great, lovely woman and actually quite normal for someone who "believes" very modern and progressive, you'd never think she was a god botherer especially last week when she turned up at my house in hot pants (I **** you not), they have a son the same age as my boy and they are friends and in the same class, which is how all this came about.

I'm just letting it roll for now as I don't see that I have any other options that don't involve pulling the plug and causing problems for all concerned, it's just the Baptism thing that I'm a little concerned by, although it appears to have been his idea, I suspect the seed was planted and nourished by someone in the beaver camp, which I'm a bit miffed about, but I suppose that's how they get their recruits and to be expected given the environment.

john banks

Baptism will not be his idea. He will have been made to think it is. Can you explore with him what he believes, on what basis, whether he has considered other opinions? Most likely he just fits in there and is going along with it. Took me until I was nearly three times his age to realise that.

hodgy0_2

Sure, its only natural that subsequent generations leave superstition and fear behind

Hopefully I and all my friends (and our children) are part of that process

We see the results of this in the "here and now"

The regions of the world that cling to these ridiculous out-dated medieval notions are by and large the same regions that have all the pain and suffering

The regions/countries that by and large eschew them have correspondingly less

JTaylor

The pendulum has swung too far back the other way. We were on the cusp of a New Jerusalem! The gross materialism (post-modernism) of the west is a key motivator for the deceived in the part of the world to which you allude.

Turbohot

I feel enriched by understanding the role of the imaginary for mental wellbeing. The approaches such as mindfulness combined with or without CBT etc. have provided evidence of the improvement in patients' overall psychological state where imagined imagery assists with employing the processes such as guided visualisation. Other psychotherapeutic trauma focused interventions also utilise the imaginary and imagery (obviously that there's a difference between the two) in psychiatry. Extraordinary dependency on the imaginary is a matter of concern for one's mental health, and it's quite a prominent symptom of the disorders such as Bi Polar and Schizoid ones.

Makes sense, doesn't it? Not every worshipper is mad, not everyone with active imagination is a schizophrenic. There was a time when quite a few of them were diagnosed with serious mental illnesses. It was an ignorant blunder on their medical healers' part.


Mine decided themselves to be non-believers since before entering their high school. Getting all confused about religious teachings in their primary school and seeing the world around them they logically argued the case without asking to argue, and made their own decision about it. I just let them be.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yes I agree, thing is with him being an only child, he sometimes feels like he's missing something, add to that, most if not all in the group have been baptised, he obviously feels as though he's been left out and missing something.

He likes dressing up and special occasions, as well as being the centre of attention, which to be fair is probably the most appealing part of the whole thing as far as he's concerned.

In reality he's no different to his old man, who was baptised at the ripe old age of 14, I too thought I was missing something when 2 of my cousins were to be baptised and had some sort of strange fear that I wouldn't go to heaven which by the way is guaranteed now so I do get where he's coming from. Also having had both his grandfathers die in the last 4yrs the concept of Heaven has been introduced, it's not really on to explain to a 4yr old that his grandfather died and is in a hole in the ground being eaten by worms and that's that.

I have sort of made the decision that there is no point in trying to fight it now by going at it head on, he's also a little young in his mind and I'd like him to stay that way as long as possible. But I shall gradually and gently challenge his mind to get him thinking a little more for himself, as you say.

JTaylor

http://biblehub.com/matthew/18-6.htm

hodgy0_2

Lol, a typical, cop out

Facts and faith don't mix

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Nothing like a bit of god fearing to keep folks in line eh!

I'm not worried about what happens to me, we all die one day. I am however concerned that there are people in this world that profess to "do good" yet attempt to bend enquiring young minds to their will, then others of their ilk have the cheek to try and tell me I'm doing something wrong by getting him to think for himself, then offer threats of what may or may not happen to me as a result.

I'm pretty sure there are laws against that sort of behaviour.

hodgy0_2

Off course the fallacy of the God/moral argument, is that all religions have the same basic moral code

Though salt not kill, love they neighbours etc

And this is totally obvious and logical when you understand that the common source for them is man (in the general and literal sense - which obviously explains the whole maleness of the God concept)

JTaylor

http://biblehub.com/proverbs/15-33.htm

You cannot defeat God!

hodgy0_2

Yes, there was a time when non-believers we burnt at the stake, and beived to be insane

But humanity moves forward, into the light

Hopefully my 100% rejection of the sovereignty of a non existent supernatural being is a small contribution to that progress

JTaylor

Lucifer the light bringer!

hodgy0_2

Lol, like I said a few pages ago, your product is fear and doubt


English Standard Version
The fear of the LORD is instruction in wisdom, and humility comes before honor.

New American Standard Bible
The fear of the LORD is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility.

King James Bible
The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The fear of the LORD is what wisdom teaches, and humility comes before honor.

International Standard Version
The fear of the LORD teaches wisdom, and humility precedes honor.

hodgy0_2

Sorry, but you are as mad as a box of frogs

JTaylor

Out come the ad. homs. Still, ten pages isn't a bad effort.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I won't be getting into any fights with entities that only exist in other peoples imagination.

You'd get much further with me if your entity was Mother Nature as for me that's something I could swallow in the greater scheme of "Life and the Universe" Invisible, all powerful yet tangible.

JTaylor

A small child ought to be fearful of their father's anger when they rebel. A good parent presents their child with boundaries and the child ought to be aware that there are consequences should those boundaries be breached. The perfect parent will surely have this in their toolbox. Love has many faces.

JTaylor

I was once a pantheist. It was part of my journey from anti-theism to Christianity. I talk about it in paragraph six of the post below:

https://www.scoobynet.com/1019401-go...l#post11638752

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

A father shouldn't want to instil fear into his child.

JTaylor

No? So if a child was about to run out in front of a car, would you shout at them to STOP! Tears would inevitably follow, at which point one would no doubt give them a reassuring hug.

Uncle Creepy

...

hodgy0_2

Sure, and it took you ten pages to maintain a façade of sanity, which again is not bad

But you have simply resorted to pathetic sound bites, inevitable really

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I thought I could write some long *** posts, but I'm obviously an amateur.

I'm really glad I'm not inside your head because it must be frightening.

I suppose with all that lot bouncing around in there it's no wonder you're looking for salvation.

hodgy0_2

Again, your are wrong

I have never instilled fear in my children, which amazingly may explain why I have never ever resorted to physical violence

In any shape or form, ever, not even a "slap"

But then I wasn't hit as a child nor was my wife, - so it sort of follows

So we go "into the light" free of fear