God is "an evil, capricious, monstrous maniac"
02 February 2015, 09:01 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: ....
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02 February 2015, 10:31 PM
#36
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem of gratuitous evil is probably the most powerful argument against the existence of God. I could cite The Fall, but as I subscribe to theistic evolution I have to concede that I view The Fall as allegorical and as such it doesn't answer the problem satisfactorily. I therefore have to retreat in to the realms of skeptical theism, that is the position that says we cannot always know why God allows evil to exist. Many men have had their faith rocked when witnessing bad things happening to good people. I have to trust the Lord and I have to trust in His sovereignty; that's what faith is.
Last edited by JTaylor; 09 February 2015 at 09:25 PM.
02 February 2015, 11:12 PM
#38
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a sense, yes. A child has to trust that his or her parents are making the right decisions for them, often without evidence. Or if I'm playing a chess master and I've no idea why he's making a move, I'll trust that it's part of a larger, unknown strategy. Sometimes one simply knows, but I accept that this is unpalatable to those who have unbelieving hearts. I've built a rational case for the existence of God, but I can't pretend to know His infinite mind in its entirety.
Last edited by JTaylor; 02 February 2015 at 11:15 PM.
02 February 2015, 11:44 PM
#39
I pray to God at night and I feel better for whatever reason.
I have never understood why God does not make everything perfect but I don't question
More importantly,how on earth can we all think we are the own ones in this star system or others.and who can ever begin to understand the start of time? Not even the Citroen Hadron Collider
No one knows
I have never understood why God does not make everything perfect but I don't question
More importantly,how on earth can we all think we are the own ones in this star system or others.and who can ever begin to understand the start of time? Not even the Citroen Hadron Collider
No one knows
03 February 2015, 07:50 AM
#41
Scooby Regular
In a sense, yes. A child has to trust that his or her parents are making the right decisions for them, often without evidence. Or if I'm playing a chess master and I've no idea why he's making a move, I'll trust that it's part of a larger, unknown strategy. Sometimes one simply knows, but I accept that this is unpalatable to those who have unbelieving hearts. I've built a rational case for the existence of God, but I can't pretend to know His infinite mind in its entirety.
I believe the world is round - against the basic observable fact and "common sense"
What chess masters do you play?
03 February 2015, 08:09 AM
#42
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was just using that as an example, I'm not good enough to lose to masters.
03 February 2015, 09:54 AM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: I'll check my gps
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe in god but l find this a none issue and a poor attempt at trying to show there is no god for a few reasons.
If there is a god why would defects not be possible, when we make cars you will often get defects that occur despite all efforts to make sure they don't and there is so many veriables within the human body the fact he made man in the first place for us to then expect perfection is unreasonable.
Secondly, humans are only meant to live about 40 years by nature's design, this can be seen by the average life span of eyes that start to go down hill there after, not to the point of failure on every occasion but simply passing there peek. Back in the early years of man who knows what defects and illnesses humans had without all the modern veriables like food, electronics and pollution etc. Maybe the man god made worked quite well and wouldn't of lived beyond design. Obviously he would of also given us the ability to create modern illness and problems but that can be seen as giving us freedom to make our own way in life.
But last and most importantly, we have the amount of love in our lives because we never know what tomorrow may bring. If we knew that our children would never get sick and we would ALL live full lives then that would surely take away some of the magic of life.
After going through hard times like being sick in hospital for a year l certainly came out the other side with a better look on life and a much greater appreciation for my family and what l have, appreciating the little things.
Our Idiosyncrasies and little faulty selves are what makes us what we are.
IMO Steven Fry just sounds like a conspiracy theorist on this occasion using opinions as proof rather than facts.
If there is a god why would defects not be possible, when we make cars you will often get defects that occur despite all efforts to make sure they don't and there is so many veriables within the human body the fact he made man in the first place for us to then expect perfection is unreasonable.
Secondly, humans are only meant to live about 40 years by nature's design, this can be seen by the average life span of eyes that start to go down hill there after, not to the point of failure on every occasion but simply passing there peek. Back in the early years of man who knows what defects and illnesses humans had without all the modern veriables like food, electronics and pollution etc. Maybe the man god made worked quite well and wouldn't of lived beyond design. Obviously he would of also given us the ability to create modern illness and problems but that can be seen as giving us freedom to make our own way in life.
But last and most importantly, we have the amount of love in our lives because we never know what tomorrow may bring. If we knew that our children would never get sick and we would ALL live full lives then that would surely take away some of the magic of life.
After going through hard times like being sick in hospital for a year l certainly came out the other side with a better look on life and a much greater appreciation for my family and what l have, appreciating the little things.
Our Idiosyncrasies and little faulty selves are what makes us what we are.
IMO Steven Fry just sounds like a conspiracy theorist on this occasion using opinions as proof rather than facts.
Last edited by Carnut; 03 February 2015 at 10:04 AM.
03 February 2015, 10:51 AM
#44
The cleverest people I know don't believe in God.However,always remember a jewish surgeon in a documentary after he had just operated on a child.He said,Ive done my best but we are in God's hands now...
Always stuck with me.Surgeons,power over life and death but submitting to God
Always stuck with me.Surgeons,power over life and death but submitting to God
03 February 2015, 11:01 AM
#45
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North Wales
Posts: 5,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Humans knew the world was round before we went up high enough to see, so surely those two things cannot be? Or, are you saying it takes a considrable leap of thinking to get to that point. But either way, it couldn't have been an observable fact, as the fact is that the world is not flat, so it's either an illusion or misinterpretation of the "fact"
03 February 2015, 11:32 AM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03 February 2015, 11:34 AM
#48
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03 February 2015, 11:37 AM
#49
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In the fast lane
Posts: 3,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ JT Send him an email or tweet and ask him. The worst he can do is ignore you, but he is well known for favouring communication via social media so I feel sure he would answer you.
You never know he might even sign up to SNET
You never know he might even sign up to SNET
Last edited by Blue by You; 03 February 2015 at 11:38 AM.
03 February 2015, 11:39 AM
#50
Scooby Regular
03 February 2015, 11:41 AM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03 February 2015, 01:29 PM
#53
So whose God is the one 'true' God? Islam, Christian or Jewish?
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
03 February 2015, 01:54 PM
#54
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (23)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In the fast lane
Posts: 3,458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If we were content (as humankind) to leave it as this....
wouldn't it be a lot simpler and more peaceful?
03 February 2015, 02:03 PM
#55
Scooby Regular
That's an interesting statement, if the world was flat you would be able to see much further than we can, so surely neither of those two things are an observable fact, or common sense?
Humans knew the world was round before we went up high enough to see, so surely those two things cannot be? Or, are you saying it takes a considrable leap of thinking to get to that point. But either way, it couldn't have been an observable fact, as the fact is that the world is not flat, so it's either an illusion or misinterpretation of the "fact"
Humans knew the world was round before we went up high enough to see, so surely those two things cannot be? Or, are you saying it takes a considrable leap of thinking to get to that point. But either way, it couldn't have been an observable fact, as the fact is that the world is not flat, so it's either an illusion or misinterpretation of the "fact"
maybe a better example is that the earth revolves around the sun
(although interestingly a few conspiritards doubt that, it is called Geocentrism, http://www.realityreviewed.com/index.html )
03 February 2015, 02:34 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So whose God is the one 'true' God? Islam, Christian or Jewish?
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. ... Now it seems to me obvious that He was neither a lunatic nor a fiend: and consequently, however strange or terrifying or unlikely it may seem, I have to accept the view that He was and is God."
03 February 2015, 02:40 PM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So whose God is the one 'true' God? Islam, Christian or Jewish?
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
Or any one of the huge number of the other religions. That's notwithstanding the factions within the three major religions. Some which are almost separate religions themselves. The Shi'ites are seen as being closer to Jews than other Muslims by some.
Complete madness.
There is no true God, and all Gods are true.
03 February 2015, 04:12 PM
#58
I'll bet JT's rep precedes him