Hang on a minute.
And yet
I think that's a contradiction JT. There can be no self determination if you are reliant on selection by a higher power.

 

And in a "survival of the fittest" scenario you would be with your Lord quicker than you may have anticipated. In a stable and lawful society Christian attitudes may hold sway, but if that society were to break down completely, for whatever reason, then the selfish and ruthless would inevitably prevail. There are many examples throughout history where this has been so.

 

It's no such thing. I use the caveat 'if' at the beginning of the sentence, I merely repeat your assertion ("I want faith") and then state what I hold to be the truth, namely the principle of election.

 

I don't believe I gave a timeframe on my anticipated physical survival, nevertheless I agree that if one turns the other cheek to a man who's without the Lord and he's brandishing a machete, the odds are he'll whip your head off.

Yep, but I wouldn't want to live in that society.

Sure, Lord of the Flies illustrates the point perfectly. There are also many examples of Christians who would rather martyr themselves than renounce their faith.

 

I recognised the caveat and perhaps didn't word my reply with sufficient eloquence, but gaining faith through your own will is surely impossible if 'God elects his adopted children'.
You may 'will' all you like, but you have no chance of success unless you're elected.

 

Correct, though you can petition the Lord with prayer if you wish to join His family. One knows when one's been saved.

 

Well Heaven knows I have asked for God's help enough in my life, so I'll just wait for the email to arrive

 

Would you describe yourself as zealous James?

 

Would religion/Christianity have saved Piggy?

 

I defend the faith and speak enthusiastically of it, if that marks me out as having zeal then yes, I can be zealous.

 

Sadly Christians worldwide are the most oppressed of religious groups, far more so than the Jews. Is the Lord testing their faith, that old, old chestnut, rolled out whenever large tranches of Christians bite the dust? As a soldier I saw things (and helped some happen, truth be told) that convinced me no loving Lord would watch impassively as such mayhem prevailed. So at what point do we stop believing in this 'good' Lord and start regarding Mr Fry's opinions as having some validity?

 

Not physically, but spiritually. That assumes he was a Christian which, despite his character, isn't made clear in the book.

 

have you checked your Junk Mail?

 

^^^

 

That's a fair post. I prayed on Monday night for God to give me an insight in to the chaos in the Middle East and Africa and South Asia. I asked why evil was being allowed to prevail and why his children were suffering such horrors. I was reminded of how Christ was tortured and suffered on the cross for our sins and how Christians are to love their enemies and pray for those who persecute them. Jesus forgave and we are to do the same. As I said earlier in the thread, we have to trust that God has a plan and that that plan is good.

 

What was your position regarding Christianity/religion ten years ago?

 

I was a militant atheist.

 

so the militant bit has been constant

 

And how would you have challenged the James of today?

 

Doubtless you received no answer as usual? God's plan seems to be misfiring, unless it's a world plan that encompasses all religions and outlooks, with Christians playing the eternal losers; the rabbits among the wolves and hyenas. And God made rabbits soft so that fiercer creatures could catch and kill them. Rabbits can pray all they like but their situation will never change.

 

I think I would ask how one reconciles the loving and forgiving God of the New Testament with the jealous, warrior God of the Old? I'd also press the question of evil and suffering in the world. I would ask how Christianity would work if we were to discover other life forms in the universe? I'd ask who created God (infinite regress)? If you want to get really technical I would ask the James of today to explain whether the Goldilocks argument is invalidated by the anthropic principle. Fortunately, I've resolved these questions, so I wouldn't have much of an argument with myself.

 

Yes, this is challenging and I've battled with these concepts, although I'd probably modify your simile and replace rabbits with lambs and sheep. Nevertheless, I remain entirely confident that the moral law as laid out in the Sermon on the Mount is perfect. I've read Ayn Rand and her world to me is a dystopia. I've also closely watched Islamic republics and godless communist states and fascist states and all of them fill me with horror. I believe that good will defeat evil come the end of days. To believe the alternative is to give up on humanity!

 

Whatever my personal views, and those of others here, fair play to you JT for responding to what I would regard as some quite personal inquisition.

 

+1

 

That's kind of you, thanks.

 

Yes, you are surely right. And don't we already live in a dystopian world? All the elements are in place. The meek shall inherit the earth - when the others have finished with it at the end of days.

 

What elements would you say are in place?

 

Well, not all elements are in the same place perhaps. But good examples are the strict religious controls imposed by many Islamic states, Saudi Arabia being a most notable example. Bureaucracy has run amok here in the UK: red tape, smothering rules and regulations and incompetent officials work relentlessly to undermine individuals and businesses. Massive surveillance is propagated as vital to our safety, invading almost everything we do. Freedom of speech? Where did that go? Do we live in fear? I remember some years ago when it was proclaimed that there were now certain areas of London where women could not go unaccompanied at night. Now no woman with a brain would go anywhere at night in London by herself. So I would say we do live in fear, and we are far closer to a dystopian society than a utopian one.

 

I'd argue most of those elements have been around for many years. You're more aware of them now through social media and constant internet access. Plus the ineccessant barrage of video and radio bulletins from the media.
I'd say it is safer for women to be out at night than say when the Yorkshire Ripper was about. I recall in them days the public was almost paralysed with fear.
We have more disposable income, more gadgets and generally a higher standard of life than thirty years ago.
Food prices are low and set to stay low. Energy and oil prices are low. We have (in my opinion) a good health service. We have relative law and order and most people are polite and courteous.
If you dwell on the negative you'll only see the negative. Far from dystopia I think we have a relative utopia.

 

The 'let's sit back and be happy' attitude is exactly what a true dystopia manages to impose, while it hides the truth behind bureaucracy, surveillance, corporate control, technology and silly toys. Our governments are well aware that while we have televisions with 100s of channels, computers with unlimited access to almost anything and plenty of toys to play with, we are less likely to create serious problems. Keep the children occupied. And what do we spend our large disposable incomes on? Watch the foolish Gadget Show, presented by grinning idiots, if you want to view the most worthless of our diversions, stuff we didn't know we needed but just have to have. By welcoming such 'improvements' we have voluntarily (although inadvertently) emasculated society. And those millions with no disposable incomes, living on (or below) the breadline, are swept under the carpet because they spoil the illusion for the rest of us. And does God or his Son feature in this Utopia? Not a sign of them.