Pros and cons of front mount intercooler please..
03 October 2014, 09:30 PM
#61
What was your Water Injection strategy Jura?
You should have it so it switches the WI on when your charge temperature goes above 42 degrees C, and switches it off below 38 degrees C, you should also not trigger it until you have at least 7 psi of boost.
If you run WI at lower boost than that or with lower charge temps than that you may lose power. Those figures came out of the testing done on the Ford Group A and WRC rally programs.
You can buy a charge temp gauge very cheaply, you could even just use a multi meter with a thermocouple and do a temporary install. Then go do some running and see what your Charge Temps are. It's not expensive or difficult to do some testing of your own.
On my STi5 RA I used to use extensively on the nurburgring back in the early 2000's I rigged up a digital display from a thermocouple after the TMIC, as I was concerned about the stories of no airflow at speed to the TMIC. I proved those scare stories were just that, stories, charge temps were very nice even at 150MPH plus, which I used to hit every lap. I've driven many thousands of miles in Subaru's on circuits over the years, anything from an Impreza Sport to the Zen Time Attack Pro Championship winning car, they all need different solutions, keep an open mind is the best advice I can give.
If you do rig up your own test, at least you can then see the real effect of your changes.
You should have it so it switches the WI on when your charge temperature goes above 42 degrees C, and switches it off below 38 degrees C, you should also not trigger it until you have at least 7 psi of boost.
If you run WI at lower boost than that or with lower charge temps than that you may lose power. Those figures came out of the testing done on the Ford Group A and WRC rally programs.
You can buy a charge temp gauge very cheaply, you could even just use a multi meter with a thermocouple and do a temporary install. Then go do some running and see what your Charge Temps are. It's not expensive or difficult to do some testing of your own.
On my STi5 RA I used to use extensively on the nurburgring back in the early 2000's I rigged up a digital display from a thermocouple after the TMIC, as I was concerned about the stories of no airflow at speed to the TMIC. I proved those scare stories were just that, stories, charge temps were very nice even at 150MPH plus, which I used to hit every lap. I've driven many thousands of miles in Subaru's on circuits over the years, anything from an Impreza Sport to the Zen Time Attack Pro Championship winning car, they all need different solutions, keep an open mind is the best advice I can give.
If you do rig up your own test, at least you can then see the real effect of your changes.
On that I'm not 100% sure what has our strategy,but here is has been set,our WMI started to work when we are reached 1.0bar to the end(1.7bar),there we didn't have something like you have set via charge temperature
Yes agree we are loosed on the 2.35L and there WMI didn't make any difference,without the WMI we are made 555.5bhp and with WMI we are made pretty same figures.On 2.1L we are made on V-Power alone 452bhp and on WMI we are made 465bhp
As you know we are broken wagon for parts and I would do some testing for sure,because we are never been happy with this
Agree you will need to be open minded and open for suggestion,I know how is it and thanks again John
Thanks,Jura
06 October 2014, 07:51 PM
#62
Compared to my graph below? Where my engine made a peak boost of 2.05BAR (29.7psi) @ 3600rpm, and 1.50BAR (21.7psi) @ 3300rpm on a 2.1 forged build? With peak power of 473BHP and peak torque of 540FtLb
Using those figures, I don't think I am talking dross.
Just to fry your head a little more, my flawed concept Intercooler just helped me to win the S2 class and the Overall championship in this seasons 22B.COM sprint series, setting FTD Subaru at the last round at Snetterton this weekend.
Not bad for a daily driven road car. 
Tidgy graphs
JohnF graphs
09 October 2014, 08:11 PM
#76
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I have a Grimmspeed tmi on a newly built 2.35. Only have a relatively small Blouch 2.5 XTr Dominator turbo, but pulls 474bhp @1.7 bar.
For a road car it is amazing....
At the op's level of tune I think he should consider all the options. Some USA guys are running these Grimmspeed units with supposedly 500+whp
For a road car it is amazing....
At the op's level of tune I think he should consider all the options. Some USA guys are running these Grimmspeed units with supposedly 500+whp
14 October 2014, 10:51 PM
#77
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I was waiting for the legacy specific one to come out but it's still in preproduction stages. I ordered a Process West TMIC for the time vbeing until the Grimmspeed one is proven to be better by the US guys
02 July 2016, 02:37 PM
#78
Oh great confused.com . So I don't need a fmic I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
02 July 2016, 03:30 PM
#79
Oh great confused.com . So I don't need a fmic I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.What car do you have?
Impreza's don't like prolonged high speed pulls, air can flow over the scoop rather than into it at very high speed. This can obviously increase intake temps, which is not good.
02 July 2016, 03:34 PM
#80
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Where did you get this from? 'Cus I can't see how it could be true. Certainly aerodynamically it doesn't make much sense.
02 July 2016, 05:06 PM
#85
Oh great confused.com . So I don't need a fmic I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
but at 330bhp i would stick with the top mount,until you are thinking of going closer to the 400 brake horsepower Mark then I would make the transition to a decent front mount intercooler.SJ.
02 July 2016, 11:33 PM
#87
LOL it was a **** take. (it was actually a disaster for temps as the leaf blower heated up the ambient air as it was compressed by the blower compressor wheel)
At stock power levels the stock TMIC is perfectly fine. I used to virtually live at the nurburgring with my STi5 and did hundreds of laps of the place hitting 155MPH, it never missed a beat. I had a charge temp gauge in the car, the stories of lack of cooling at high speed are utter bollox.
With my current TMIC, sprinting is the worst environment for heat soak as temps rise as you queue up, yet I still managed to win the 22B sprint championship outright, I also won the S2 class that year. The two previous years the S2 championship was won by TMIC equipped cars also. Even with FMIC equipped cars you get heat soak in this environment, it can be worse than a TMIC at times.
So seriously chaps, I'm amazed we still talk about this, it's been proven beyond doubt that all that matters is that you match the cooling capacity of the intercooler to the power levels being achieved, TMIC or FMIC it makes no difference for thermal efficiency, you do get throttle response benefits with as short a pipe run as possible, and you cant get shorter than with a TMIC.
(it was actually a disaster for temps as the leaf blower heated up the ambient air as it was compressed by the blower compressor wheel)At stock power levels the stock TMIC is perfectly fine. I used to virtually live at the nurburgring with my STi5 and did hundreds of laps of the place hitting 155MPH, it never missed a beat. I had a charge temp gauge in the car, the stories of lack of cooling at high speed are utter bollox.
With my current TMIC, sprinting is the worst environment for heat soak as temps rise as you queue up, yet I still managed to win the 22B sprint championship outright, I also won the S2 class that year. The two previous years the S2 championship was won by TMIC equipped cars also. Even with FMIC equipped cars you get heat soak in this environment, it can be worse than a TMIC at times.
So seriously chaps, I'm amazed we still talk about this, it's been proven beyond doubt that all that matters is that you match the cooling capacity of the intercooler to the power levels being achieved, TMIC or FMIC it makes no difference for thermal efficiency, you do get throttle response benefits with as short a pipe run as possible, and you cant get shorter than with a TMIC.
03 July 2016, 01:07 AM
#88
Originally Posted by johnfelstead
LOL it was a **** take. (it was actually a disaster for temps as the leaf blower heated up the ambient air as it was compressed by the blower compressor wheel)
At stock power levels the stock TMIC is perfectly fine. I used to virtually live at the nurburgring with my STi5 and did hundreds of laps of the place hitting 155MPH, it never missed a beat. I had a charge temp gauge in the car, the stories of lack of cooling at high speed are utter bollox.
With my current TMIC, sprinting is the worst environment for heat soak as temps rise as you queue up, yet I still managed to win the 22B sprint championship outright, I also won the S2 class that year. The two previous years the S2 championship was won by TMIC equipped cars also. Even with FMIC equipped cars you get heat soak in this environment, it can be worse than a TMIC at times.
So seriously chaps, I'm amazed we still talk about this, it's been proven beyond doubt that all that matters is that you match the cooling capacity of the intercooler to the power levels being achieved, TMIC or FMIC it makes no difference for thermal efficiency, you do get throttle response benefits with as short a pipe run as possible, and you cant get shorter than with a TMIC.
(it was actually a disaster for temps as the leaf blower heated up the ambient air as it was compressed by the blower compressor wheel)At stock power levels the stock TMIC is perfectly fine. I used to virtually live at the nurburgring with my STi5 and did hundreds of laps of the place hitting 155MPH, it never missed a beat. I had a charge temp gauge in the car, the stories of lack of cooling at high speed are utter bollox.
With my current TMIC, sprinting is the worst environment for heat soak as temps rise as you queue up, yet I still managed to win the 22B sprint championship outright, I also won the S2 class that year. The two previous years the S2 championship was won by TMIC equipped cars also. Even with FMIC equipped cars you get heat soak in this environment, it can be worse than a TMIC at times.
So seriously chaps, I'm amazed we still talk about this, it's been proven beyond doubt that all that matters is that you match the cooling capacity of the intercooler to the power levels being achieved, TMIC or FMIC it makes no difference for thermal efficiency, you do get throttle response benefits with as short a pipe run as possible, and you cant get shorter than with a TMIC.
03 July 2016, 03:55 AM
#89
Oh great confused.com . So I don't need a fmic I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.
I was told by my mapper not to do runs over 100mph because my tmic wouldn't get sufficient air. Where is this theory from and where's the evidence. Would be very interesting. I only have 330bhp standard internals and standard turbo. Now after reading this I am wondering if I can push it for more on my tmic.https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ner-tales.html
03 July 2016, 01:30 PM
#90
Thanks Charles !!! That was a good read. I think what i need to do is ask my mapper to try and push for more on my standard tmic. What's the limits on the standard turbo and is there much of a big gain with a cone filter? Mines a 04 STI with about 330ish at the moment