dpb

Bloody hell, I would kind of imagine our man Sherratt will know what and what isn't allowed lol


You can't go around possibly killing the general public

ukjesters

iTrader: (3)

Shock! Horror! There's a hole in the fence big enough for a fox to get through, and there's chickens on the other side of it. And the fox did what comes naturally and entered the pen and killed the chickens?
Yes, I'm sorry that your chickens were killed by a wild animal, it can't have been a pleasant sight. But surely, as hard as it is, it's just one of those things that you have to accept will unfortunately happen in your line of work from time to time? At least you've now found the gap in the fence which will hopefully help protect the chickens that are left.
I love wildlife, hate hunting and absolutely despise those involved in raptor persecution, but that's another topic.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Wouldn't the same thing happen if a cat got into a field full of mice?

Not many going round vilifying cats though.

Devildog

Could equally apply to humans. "We" as a race kill more animals for killings sake than foxes do.

And arguably they don't kill for killings sake, but basically kill to stock up on food. Its akin to us buying a week or more's shopping in Tesco's, rather than having to buy on meal each day.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

As a farmer's son I saw on many occasions the damage that foxes would do given half a chance. Not just to chickens but also new born lambs. If a human did the same thing they would be thrown in jail. Foxes are rightly vilified by those who earn a living from livestock, probably second only to travellers on the farmer's hate list.

And foxes do kill for the sake of it, frequently wiping out dozens of chickens and just leaving them uneaten.

ukjesters

iTrader: (3)

What do you think happens out on the grouse moors? Think all the shot birds are rounded up to eat later on? Of course not, killed for killings sake. And god help the harriers that just happen to have the audacity to take the grouse chicks to feed their young. The harriers have almost been wiped out thanks to illegal persecution.
It's nature & we need to learn how to live in their habitat, not the other way round.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Seems like this thread has really touched one of your nerves judging by your last 4 responses .

Carnut

Iam a x dairy farmer and they are as described.

With regards to electric fencing to save me having to go and turn it off when I was bringing the cows in I would just hold it while i opened it up, not dangerous at all.

Farmer's are no different to most, we all love the countryside and the animals/wildlife but like everyone we put are selves first on SOME occasions.

Farmers are the guardians of the countryside and far to often are put under the spotlight for the bad things they must do to protect their animals and livelihood.

Carnut

I often hear this argument, what are we machines it's our habitat too and we are just as much a part of nature as any other wild animal.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

You are right Chris. I do love the countryside and hate to see animals suffer. When the fox was shot there was a small part of me that felt sorry for it because I know it can't help what it had done, but on the other hand I think of those poor birds that have been slaughtered by it and my flock of 3000 birds that have been disturbed by all the commotion and the panic that the 2 foxes caused.

Nature will be nature, I'm fully aware of that and easily accept that, but some people, SOME city folk, the people that leave food out for foxes are not aware of the destruction that these animals can cause.

Matteeboy

Totally depends on the length of the fence but if it's just to guard chickens (so probably not massive) that is borderline weapons grade; mind you don't set fire to stuff!!

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Well anyway, you certainly wouldn't want to touch it that's for sure! The family dogs have all experienced it (when they were younger) probably like your Lab(?) and they don't go near it now. One shock is usually enough to teach them not to go near it! Bit irrelevant anyway as if there's a gap or it's badly shorting out somewhere it won't have much affect.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I know exactly what happens on grouse moors. A great deal of time is spent at the end of each drive with dogs picking up the shot birds. Any wounded birds are quickly dispatched, and the birds are sold as part of the profits of the moor. People like to eat them, others like to shoot them and that combination supports a large and thriving industry. And the likelihood is, were it not for the shooting, that wonderful moorland would have vanished long ago under a blanket of pine forests.

Carnut

Well said, it costs thousands for a season of grouse shooting and the conservation is taken very seriously.

Plus more often than not the grouse end up on the dinner table.

stipete75

Agreed! upper class wannabes.

Jamie

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Joules...a measure of energy, abbreviation J.

One Joule is 1 Watt per second, so 36W per sec.

If it's at 6000V, and W = I x V
then the current is 0.006A or 6mA if you like.

Killing current is in the region of 0.25A.

Matteeboy

Nope, one joule per second is 1 watt.

ukjesters

iTrader: (3)

So in this amazing habitat that is carefully managed, where are all the hen harriers? Not one breeding pair in England last year and apparently only 5 nests this year. Absolutely 100% down to some of the gamekeeper scum killing the birds at the request of the landowners. Radio tagged raptors disappear time after time on grouse moors & it's an absolutely disgusting state of affairs. I do realise not all landowners are this way inclined, but far too many are. Absolute scum.

Carnut

No not wannabes, they're actually very rich, or at lest the one's I have met and know.

Carnut

You seem to be very concerned about birds of pray, iam not saying you shouldn't just that I don't think I see it to be quite as bad as you do.

I was a farmer and have lots of friends and family who still are, I was also a keen falconer (did you know keen is a falconry word) and enjoy my fishing and have done a bit of shooting my self. My father in law is also a gamekeeper as is many of his friends and I simply haven't seen any direct or indirect results of said crimes.

Of course these crimes do exist and at any opportunity it should be stamped out but the majority of the decline in some species is due to habitat and such things as poisoning of rodents.

One of the most hated birds of gamekeeper's is the common buzzard or European buzzard and they are doing just fine. But as I said before this is not an excuse for complaintancy and these things do go on and its nice see someone showing an interest in such matters.

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

They tend to kill and stockpile. It's far easier to kill en masse then return to pick up the kills one by one (the hard work's already been done) than kill and take away each time. If birds are left behind it's because they have been disturbed. They kill for food not for sport. We used to lose a lot of chickens at the house I managed up until January. Was just an accepted inevitability.

We live in the middle of fox hunting territory down here. I'd rather they did drag hunting but it's the culture and if I felt that badly about it I'd move elsewhere.

I totally see why they are a nuisance but then so are earthquakes. I doubt either do anything to purposely wind us up.

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

Agree! Without them my ability to earn a living here would be far more difficult too. I'd rather they didn't hunt foxes as such but it's a big industry that keeps a lot of skills going locally (dry stone walling, farriers, gun smiths, clothing, etc). Most of the wealthier ones are blue blood types and the hunts generally tend to occupy private land. You get the odd incident that has two worlds colliding but it is generally kept away from prying eyes. Can only speak for down here in Gloucestershire.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

It's a pity you can't make your points without resorting to such language. Gamekeepers are not scum, just poorly paid countryside workers struggling to produce a decent crop of grouse against all the odds.

Unlike pheasants and partridges grouse cannot be bred in captivity and so careful environmental management is the only answer if grouse are to flourish. If the 'keepers fail then there are no grouse, no shooting and no income. They lose their jobs and landowners are then forced to resort to other income streams, mostly grassland for grazing and forestry. If the moorland disappears then an entire ecosystem goes with it, predatory birds included.

There is no ready-made solution, there have been far brighter people than me who have struggled with this subject for years.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Stock piling? I have yet to see any evidence or proof of this claim. There is no way a fox would stock pile 44 chickens. I've heard stories of farmers where a fox has got into a chicken shed and killed 200+ birds. Don't tell me this is stock piling because that's just utterly laughable. They kill for the fun and for the sake of it.

Matteeboy

They also bite the tongues off lambs for fun. Lamb dies a horrible death for no reason.

They are truly sadistic animals.

Carnut

Well look on the bright side LSherratt , its 44 birds that don't need to be vaccinated.

ukjesters

iTrader: (3)

I agree, not all gamekeepers are scum. That's what I said. Those who do illegally kill the raptors are scum, 100%. And their landowner bosses who give the orders. Did you happen to see the Cumbrian gamekeeper go into a crow type trap where buzzards had been illegally caught & he battered them to death with a stick. He'd kept a book itemising all the birds he'd killed in the previous years. He only escaped a custodial sentence because he had cancer. This type of persecution is widespread & needs to stop...now.
http://youtu.be/-JjKwd2Bh6E

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Chris but they've already had all their vaccines . This particular flock is 40 weeks old.

Carnut

Ha its a bitch sometimes, TB would only seem to take my best cows/calves that I had spent money on.

Of subject but what age do they hit peak and at what percentage do you get ride? It can be a hard choice some times to know when to bring the next generation in so iam told and you don't always get it right.