CREWJ

I thought this was quite interesting and seems to match up with my teacher friends.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27087942

What are your thoughts Pete?

nik52wrx

Another strike looming
The link below is interesting, especially the last section regarding graduates.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27100733

CREWJ

404 - Page not Found

I don't agree with the striking though. Many jobs have this, surely you should know about the hours before you train for the job?

David Lock

I was a governor at a small local primary. School was 8 'til 3.30 and was deserted by 4 o'clock. All female staff who didn't even manage any proper outside games. Head did a couple of hours in entry class which I thought was more like a kindergarten. Head was desperately inefficient and I got myself in hot water when I suggested she should spend more time in the classroom

On the other side of the coin a close friend is head of English at a rough London comprehensive and works many hours over the odds. Likewise the head at my kids' comprehensive, and his senior staff, worked long hours.

All of which gets us nowhere

dl

nik52wrx

Link fixed.

legb4rsk

The article mentions peoples working hours in general.
This has been a bugbear of mine for some years.

I now don't just count the hours in work but also the hours out of work hours using the internet for email,scheduling,time management,admin etc.

I believe we now work much longer hours.Sometimes without realising it.

This got so out of hand at VW that they banned anyone using it after work hours & only 30 mins before the working day started.They seem to be doing ok.

CREWJ

Yeah I see why, they pay is great to be honest and the pension, even with the adjustments, are incredible. From what I've seen, other than people who studied to be a teacher, people use teaching as a fall back career.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

I let my girlfriend reply to this thread :

I'm not sure how it can be a fall back career- anyone who has studied to become a teacher can tell you how hard it is! I'm currently studying for my PGCE and the hours are more than people think- school hours- 8-6 most days then working at home to prepare for the next day. Not to say that teaching is the only job with these hours, I agree that most working hours are just longer these days.

I don't agree with striking either, luckily I knew what to expect from my course as I have family members who are teachers. But there were people on my course who thought it would be an easy 9-3 job (many who have dropped out now).

CREWJ

Yeah I see the hours that people put in. It really is a lot.

With the fall back career comment, that is just what I have seen. I've seen people in uni with me who couldn't find a career in their field who then fell into teaching. This is because that was the logical route as instructed by their professors.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

......yep. I do a bit of work out of hours too all on an average 15 days annual leave a year.

Shaun

zip106

I can only speak for my kids primary school - each and every teacher is dedicated.

They are usually all in by 8am and when I pick my lad up from after school club at 5:30pm most teachers are still there.
I've driven past at 6-6:30 some evenings and all the cars are in the car park.

Come Christmas, they are all working hard on creating a set for the school play - often 8pm before they leave.

And, in all the 6 years of having my kids there, there has never been a closure for strike action, snow or floods (which it does).

The only closure is for the bloody election - why use a sodding school as a polling station?

pslewis

Teaching has never been more attractive, more popular or more rewarding.

A record number of top graduates are now applying to become teachers and there have never been more teachers in England's classrooms, with a rise of 9,000 in the last year.

So, sack the strikers ..... plenty of replacements in the pipeline!

Let's look at what they are striking for:-

1. They do not want their payrise linked to their performance.

2. They want their gold plated Pensions kept as they are, 1/2 pay for life after 30 years!!

3. They want to work even LESS than their contracted 26 hours per week.

Remember that they get TWO payrises per year!

Remember that they get a Pension of over 1/2 pay, for life, after 32 years in the profession - that means they can retire at 55 with full Pension .... given that the average Teacher is on around £50,000 that means US TAXPAYERS will have to fund a £27,000 a year INDEX LINKED Pension for their lfe!!

Remember that they are contracted to work 26 hours per week, less than that in the Classroom.

Remember that they strike for greed - then, if you dare take your child out of school for a holiday, you are fined and frowned upon by the NUT!!

Remember that they have never worked in the real world, so it's pointless trying to convince them that they have one of the very best jobs on earth!!

SRSport

What do most teachers get paid because Im sure it will be considerably less than £50,000? Out of the all the schools I have been involved with in the past (Yorkshire area) I have seen teachers reach £35,000 and then require leadership roles to surpass it. Im wondering who this 'average' includes as I know of super heads (regional heads) who earn £150k - £200k, this would start to prove an unfair representation on an average teachers wage.

pslewis

They will show you the scales, but don't be misled - the 'extra' payments that they fail to disclose push their wages up massively from their basic.

A TLR payment can add £12,000 a year to the Salary.

They climb up a scale each and every year - this is in addition to their annual payrise.

There is a reason that graduates are flooding into Teaching - a more rewarding job does not exist. Quite why they bellyache so much puzzles me.

SRSport

Nope, these were teachers I knew quite well. Their total income before tax was around the £35,000 mark. They most certainly werent taking home £47,000.

pslewis

I know how much they are paid - don't be tricked ........ ask them what their TLR payment is!

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

- I asked my girlfriend and her mum who is a head teacher is only just hitting £50k, and average pay for normal teachers is WELL below that so your figures/facts are flawed.

- They ONLY get a pay rise if they meet performance targets.

...and that she could be bothered to reply to the rest of your comments because she said that they were laughable and doesn't want to waste her time with you

David Lock

So why don't you switch to teaching Lewis - or are you just too clever

dl

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No...he's a troll.

Felix.

I'm curious now - what is this TLR payment then.....

And what was this '2 pay rises a year' comment....

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Don't ask...he tells lies and spins stories from what he KNEW of a rich comprehensive years ago.

Justme103

iTrader: (2)

My Girlfriend is Teacher at a Primary school that's in special measures (Before she started there) so they get regular Ofsted visits.

The hours she puts in is a hell of a lot, In there for 7 am. Stays till 5:30 doing marking,
After tea at home she is searching for resources, Doing lesson plans, Sorting out things for display work, most of the time she is doing stuff until 11pm

This is every week day & a good few hours on the weekends.

So its not the 9 till 3:30 job that every one thinks.

SRSport

Don't worry most people are aware.

pslewis

TLR .... Teaching and Learning Responsibility Payments .... 'were' supposed to be to reward extra duties, like looking after the Bicycle Shed, Notice Board, Playground Bins, being a Staff Governor .... for example.

These TLR Payments are abused by Heads wishing to use them as retention payments and extra pay rises .............. alcazar can confirm that this is what happens.

The 2 payrises per year arise from the unusual fact that Teachers have a PayScale they move up each year ..... scales have long gone in the real world, but are alive and kicking in Teaching. Each year, without exception, Teachers move up the payscale receiving a 7% payrise.

Of course, they then get another payrise as their annual rise ...... it's been held at 1% for a couple of years.

But they don't want you to know this of course as it destroys their pleadings that they are hard done by ....... any more questions, just ask - I've been at the sharp end of this for more years than most of you can remember.

I repeat my statement above that it is one of the best and most rewarding jobs available today ... I'm waaaaay too old for it now, but don't get the idea that Teachers are hard done by, they are most certainly not.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

More lies.

pslewis

That's odd ... you agreed that TLR's are used to retain and attract staff ....................... or have you chosen to forget that? convenient ....

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Cloud cuckoo - land...

Most experienced staff are a target for removal, as they "cost" too much compared to a "yoof" what has a degree....

TLR may be a carrot, stuck on a unicorn's head... but most face only a stick, once schools are "sold off" to the management, then cash is king. I got out of my non-teaching role because I was only likely to be pruned out if I stayed.

My ex-colleagues no receive nothing for any overtime they are forced to work !
To cover themselves, the management state that they aren't required except to unlock and lock the premises, leaving no school staff on-site to provide first aid or fire cover, but the school Governors aren't bothered so that's O.K. ?

As for hours her-indoors does PSHCE and teaches 50% of the pupils over a ten day period, so four times the work for assessments and grading, compared to Maths or English.

She's decided to bail out and become a head of year on the same pay, plus a 50% reduction in class time. No way is life in South Leeds easy or even fun....

All increments are performance related, none are given away these days.
As for TLR's again they used to added value, but now a head of faculty may get to a TLR2 eventually, but no teacher will.

dunx

P.S. Last year she got a 0% pay rise... even in production engineering I got 2%....

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

You are SO factualy incorrect it hurts PSLewis. I could bring you up on a number of points but it's not worth wasting my time.


Interesting thread til he got involved though. All Teachers tend to be tarred with the same brush, despite the NUT being the only union voting in favour of strikes this time (usually the case) - a very Primary School teacher weighted union.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Pete is simply a troll. Do not feed.

pslewis

Well, like I said - I'm in the hot seat, I see what happens .......... I have absolutely NO vested interest in promoting anything else but the truth.

The truth is what I have said - I'm genuinely staggered that anyone can argue against it, truly I am.

I operate in the same state Education system that you speak of ...... my facts are facts, they cannot be polar opposite to your facts.

Let's agree on one thing at a time then....... "Teachers start on £x and climb each year to £xMax - and then, onwards, onto £UPS ... up again to £UPS Max"

That is FACT, FACT, FACT!

In ADDITION to this movement up the scale, they ALSO receive an annual payrise.

That is FACT, FACT, FACT!

Right, that's the two payrises per year agreed ..... what's next?