Gustavo Martins

Hello!

Has anyone ever tried to switch off the ABS braking system in a MY98?

How can I do that? Remove the fuse?!? How will this affect the braking power (in dry, because in wet we all know that ABS is better because bla bla bla...)?

Has anyone "projected" a switch to turn on/off the ABS system?

Another question is how different is the non-ABS braking system of a type R/RA car from the standard UK Turbo? Is it possible to fit a type R/RA brake system in a MY98? (prices??)

Regards,

Gustavo

Paul Milne

Pull the fuse , the brakes work fine, the only indication is the abs light stays on, I somtimes do it in winter on the snowy/icy roads,as I feel a bit more in control

kokojin

If slippery conditions are at all a possibility - pulling the fuse is probably a good idea. It can increase stopping distance by %50 while it works it's 'magic'. If you regularly travel roads that have a little run-off to the side, ABS will let you steer toward it, but in a panic-stop, It's all over but the crushing.

AlastairB

Kokojin,

Are you claiming that in slippery conditions ABS <I>increases</I> stopping distances by 50%?

If so, that's quite a claim!! Got any evidence to back it up?

It's well known that ABS doesn't handle some conditions well - thick loose snow or gravel for example, where material build up in front of a locked wheel helps - but how often do you drive across gravel at high speed If you do drive a lot in these conditions, it might be a good idea...

On other 'slippery' surfaces like wet asphalt or concrete, or 'split' surfaces where the friction changes the research shows ABS to be provably better - the stopping distances are less, and the vehicle is generally more stable. On wet surfaces, the benefits tend to greater than on dry.

ABS <I>isn't</I> magic - it's not a substitute for careful and skillful driving - but it <I>does</I> make maximum braking power more accessible, under the great majority of conditions.

Getting back to Gustavo's orignal question - how will disabling the ABS affect dry braking, I'd say it certainly won't improve it. If there is sufficent friction to prevent lockup, the ABS shouldn't interfere, if not it should do it's job.

Besides, while there might not be much in it when it's dry, do you intend to put the fuse back in every time it rains Certainly a switch is a good idea so you can turn it back on...

Re the Type R/RA, I <I>think</I> the major difference is they have larger, vented rear discs with 2 pot calipers compared with single pot non-vented on the MY98

At the front, I think the Type R/RA shares the same brakes as the MY99/00 - i.e. 4 pots on a 294mm(ish) disc compared with smaller 2 pot calipers on the earlier cars.

Certainly 4 pot fronts can be fitted to earlier cars, it's a reasonably popular upgrade - 4 pot systems from people who have uprated their brakes to Brembo/AP/Alcon are frequently for sale at around 300-400 pounds.

On the rear, I'm not so sure. Graham Goode

Gustavo Martins

Thank you Alastair for you objective reply!

Yet regarding the differences between the MY98 and Type R/RA braking system are the master brake cilinder and brake pedal mechanisms the same in those models??
As far as I know the Type R/RA have no ABS... they simply lack the ABS sensors and actuators or is it a completely different braking system??
I'm asking this because I've heard that the Type R/RA braking system is far better than the standard MY99/00 and since the discs and calipers are the same in these models the difference must be in the (lack) of ABS or in a totally different master brake cilinder and brake pedal mechanism...

Cheers
Gustavo

AlastairB

Hi Gustavo,

Certainly the Type R/RA have no ABS - I understand the reason for this is that ABS is incompatible with the adjustable centre differential fitted to those cars.

I'm afraid I can't say for certain if there are differences to the pedal/master cylinder - someone with a Type R (I've got a UK car) might help here?

It could well be that disabling the ABS gives a better feel to the pedal - I don't think it's an unusual complaint that ABS can make the pedal feel somewhat lifeless. Such matters are probably pretty subjective tho depending on what people want/expect in respect of pedal feel.

The larger rear discs might help Type R/RA braking a <I>little</I>, but I doubt that's the only reason.

Are you certain that Type R/RA braking actually <I>is</I> better than a MY99/00 - i.e. are the stopping distances any shorter? Or is it just that the brakes <I>feel</I> more powerful...

(Even my 97 UK car can stop quite quickly in objective terms, it just often doesn't <I>feel</I> like it's stopping quickly!!! Well, it can do it at least once before fade sets in )

You're obviously well aware of the implications of turning off ABS, why not give it a try under controlled circumstances and see what difference it makes? If it improves matters subjectively, you can then decide to leave it off or not (or make it switchable)

If that doesn't make a difference and/or you still want better feel, other options are available. I believe a master cylinder support bracket makes a big difference - Scoobymania sell them - perhaps someone with one fitted could comment? Alternate pads might help here - a search on the subject will throw up lots of opinions...

Finally, if you want the best braking, go the Brembo/AP/Alcon route - I've only first hand experience of the Alcons, but they were simply awesome, and I have some at my dealer awaiting fitment when the new Scoob arrives

The Brembo/AP setups are doubtless equally good if not better. Only downside is all the big brake options are pricey...

(One advantage to the Brembo/AP kits is that they fit under 16" wheels, I think AP also has a larger kit for 17" wheels if you want)

Rambled on again! Sorry I couldn't be more precise on the Type R/RA setup....

Cheers
Alastair




[This message has been edited by AlastairB (edited 25-05-2000).]

GavinP

Is there some other factors at work here ?

Tyres affect braking so are the type/condition the same on both cars ?

Weight is another factor - a RA will be certainly lighter than a standard Scoob.

Finally, diffs make a difference to braking so this may explain some of the change.

I'm sure there are other issues I've missed but nothing is ever as straightforward....

Thanks

Gavin

AlastairB

Gavin,

All excellent points. Does anyone actually have stopping distances for the various types of Scoob?

I know Autocar include brake testing in their road tests - anyone know if they have ever done a TypeR, and if so, what were the results? And for other scoobs?

Curiously...
Alastair